G8/G20 June 2010 Protest Watch

[George Wallace]

Make up your mind Moronto!

Do you want the Police to arrest the perps who committed all the violence, or do you want to free all the "jailed people"?

 

[mariomike]

Jonathan Kay:
"We saw this in 1999, when the mayor asked for army troops to help battle the sort of snowstorms that Edmonton and Winnipeg seem to get every other week."

If someone had called 9-1-1, and died because the ambulance could not get to them, a Coroner's Inquest would have been called to find out why. If the inquest heard that Mayor Lastman was aware that ambulances were not getting through, and could have asked the army for help, but failed to do so because he was afraid of what people might say, the Coroner's report would have condemned him. Lawsuits would have followed.

The snow was up to the second story on houses. The eight Bisons had to be used for about 35 emergency calls that the ambulances could not get to.
The Minister of Defence, Mr. Eggleton ( himself a former mayor of Toronto ), authorized help as a matter of public safety. 

 

[Kat Stevens]

And there are gajillions of square kilometres in this country that sees that kind of snowfall on a regular basis, and nobody calls out the troops.  We grab our shovels, start our snowblowers, and git 'er  done.  The road I live on sees a plough twice every winter, need it or not.

 

[TCBF]

Jonathan Kay:
"We saw this in 1999, when the mayor asked for army troops to help battle the sort of snowstorms that Edmonton and Winnipeg seem to get every other week."

If someone had called 9-1-1, and died because the ambulance could not get to them, a Coroner's Inquest would have been called to find out why. If the inquest heard that Mayor Lastman was aware that ambulances were not getting through, and could have asked the army for help, but failed to do so because he was afraid of what people might say, the Coroner's report would have condemned him. Lawsuits would have followed.

The snow was up to the second story on houses. The eight Bisons had to be used for about 35 emergency calls that the ambulances could not get to.
The Minister of Defence, Mr. Eggleton ( himself a former mayor of Toronto ), authorized help as a matter of public safety.

- Disagree.

- Emergency planners have access to Provincial DOT Motor Vehicle Registrations, do they not? How many plows, graders, front end loaders and trucks with blades are located within two hundred miles of Toronto? Enough to get rid of all of that snow if the City Of Toronto wanted to spend the money to hire them?

- I like the way the CF had a big private joke on Toronto.  Only idiots send wheeled vehilcles to a REAL snowstorm. Hundreds and hundreds of tracked vehicles in the CF and we spit in Toronto's face, send them wheeled vehicles, then sat back and laughed about it.

- It's all about who pays - like the forest fires in BC in 2003. Think all of those layed-off woods workers wouldn't have liked being paid to put out fires? Sure, but BC would rather Canada payed us instead of BC paying their own unemployed workers (who knew the woods) to put out the fires.

 

[mariomike]

And there are gajillions of square kilometres in this country that sees that kind of snowfall on a regular basis, and nobody calls out the troops.  We grab our shovels, start our snowblowers, and git 'er  done.  The road I live on sees a plough twice every winter, need it or not.

That is true. There was no problem in the suburban boroughs like Etobicoke, North York and Scarborough. But, the inner-city residential streets were so tight that the snow equipment they had back then - just after Amalgamation - was too big. From what I understand, Bisons could "traverse a narrow path and clear the snow away".
Since then, the snow equipment has been rebuilt and modernised, so "they say" removal in tight streets should not be a problem again.

 

[Kat Stevens]

The biggest problem from what I saw on the telly from the comfort of my home in -35C Edmonton, was that nobody thinks the rules against parking on the street applies to them.  Every scene I saw showed cars parked on the street buried in snow.  Graders and ploughs can't just engage "slim mode" and get through.

 

[TCBF]

That is true. There was no problem in the suburban boroughs like Etobicoke, North York and Scarborough. But, the inner-city residential streets were so tight that the snow equipment they had back then - just after Amalgamation - was too big. From what I understand, Bisons could "traverse a narrow path and clear the snow away".
Since then, the snow equipment has been rebuilt and modernised, so "they say" removal in tight streets should not be a problem again.

- Does not compute. What did they use on narrow streets during a normal snowfall?  What about all of those narrow sidewalk plows?  Union rules: can't be used on streets? I still ain't buying it.

 

[TCBF]

The biggest problem from what I saw on the telly from the comfort of my home in -35C Edmonton, was that nobody thinks the rules against parking on the street applies to them.  Every scene I saw showed cars parked on the street buried in snow.  Graders and ploughs can't just engage "slim mode" and get through.

- So do what they do in a normal city: the owner digs it out and moves it, or the owner tries to pay the tow truck company to get his car back.

- In a life or limb emergency: screw the parked cars and send in the plows.

 

[mariomike]

Hundreds and hundreds of tracked vehicles in the CF and we spit in Toronto's face, send them wheeled vehicles, then sat back and laughed about it.

I appreciate the help they gave us getting to our patients.
The patients ( especially those with trauma ) probably appreciated riding on tires.
I wasn't involved in snow removal operations.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Roger that.  There aren't many things parked on the street that a Champion 760 grader won't move.

 

[TCBF]

I appreciate the help they gave us.

- I probably vent a bit much on this sort of thing, but voters are not holding their elected officials responsible for failing to plan for simple, predictable emergencies.  Some day, the bottom will fall out.

 

[mariomike]

- I probably vent a bit much on this sort of thing, but voters are not holding their elected officials responsible for failing to plan for simple, predictable emergencies.  Some day, the bottom will fall out.

I agree. Toronto panics easily. I know that very well.
But, the good will that the CF generated that winter was very real. Everyone from the mayor on down was sincerely grateful. The CF made a lot of friends in this town. Seeing those Bisons roll down Yonge Street was awesome!
This was before 9/11 and Afganistan. Everything changed after that. You couldn't call the CF after that because Torontonians were having anxiety attacks! hahaha

 

[Kirkhill]

And moving back to rioters in June........

I got a bit bent out of shape about M. le President Sarkozy's assertion that his shindig will only cost $100,000,000.  Presumably that is due to many of his costs being covered under existing budgets.

When our coppers run out of overtime they have to call in you lot.  You, and the 27 rifle companies constitute the government's ready reserve - minus the troops deployed or training or whatever.

M. le President however has available 60 companies of CRS policemen sitting in barracks ready to try and stop disgruntled citizens torching 9000 civilian cars (2005).

If the job gets too much for them he can call in the 100 squadrons of soldiers in the Gendarmerie Mobile that are also held at the ready. 

If these 160 company sized units can't grip the situation they then move up the response to 17 squadrons of VAB mounted gendarmes.


And when that fails there is always the heavy brigade of Gendarmes  with three VAB squadrons backed by a squadron of 32 ERC-90s  (MGS type armoured cars mounting a 90 mm turret.


French riot control.

 

[Kirkhill]

PS

Just so's I can't be accused of anti-Chauvinism......

The Germans maintain 29 companies of special duties police in 11 BPA battalions.

The Italians maintain 11 battalions of Carabinieri for the same purposes.

The cost of maintaining those troops, standing troops, is considerable more expensive, on an ongoing basis, than 1 Billion dollars.

Those troops are strictly to impose order at home.  They are not expeditionary troops.  They are not even available to defend borders against other soldiers.

 

[maikeru333]

This link is an overview from the real news network of the g20, policy that was debated, etc:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu5o5891JS8

if you search false flag or agent provocateurs hopefully you can find some pretty interesting stuff... sometimes switching up the search engines you use will suddenly start finding new things you can't seem to find elsewhere, or with certain (flagged) keywords.
Here is one video I liked on this topic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeG_t9abaSU

 

[Fusaki]

if you search false flag or agent provocateurs hopefully you can find some pretty interesting stuff... sometimes switching up the search engines you use will suddenly start finding new things you can't seem to find elsewhere, or with certain (flagged) keywords.
Here is one video I liked on this topic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeG_t9abaSU

I'm glad to see the cops had infiltrated criminal groups intent on using Black Bloc tactics, and that the targeted arrests of key instigators kept the number of peaceful protesters who got teargassed to a minimum.

 

[maikeru333]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm0fehUHq4E cbc talking about the extra powers police got for the protest, and how they used them... still hasn't fully loaded for me yet... not sure why...

Amy Miller with alternative media centre talks about prisoner treatment:
vimeo.com/12925239

www.g20inquiry.org here and on the facebook site of same intent http://www.facebook.com/posted.php?id=135629036463012&share_id=134144403280453&comments=1#s134144403280453
there are some good links... personal accounts of what transpired are now being given, and people are still going over media and trying to edit it to give a better picture of what was going on... many stories are still coming out.  Is it ok with you, if they come out?  Or is part of the 'policing' intended to be manipulating the media, and manufacturing consent?  Isn't that more psyops and cointelpro?  watching for the blowback from the black ops, etc?  yeah yeah you get the picture, right?

 

[Fusaki]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm0fehUHq4E cbc talking about the extra powers police got for the protest, and how they used them... still hasn't fully loaded for me yet... not sure why...

Amy Miller with alternative media centre talks about prisoner treatment:
vimeo.com/12925239

www.g20inquiry.org here and on the facebook site of same intent http://www.facebook.com/posted.php?id=135629036463012&share_id=134144403280453&comments=1#s134144403280453
there are some good links... personal accounts of what transpired are now being given, and people are still going over media and trying to edit it to give a better picture of what was going on... many stories are still coming out.  Is it ok with you, if they come out?  Or is part of the 'policing' intended to be manipulating the media, and manufacturing consent?  Isn't that more psyops and cointelpro?  watching for the blowback from the black ops, etc?  yeah yeah you get the picture, right?

Personally, I think there should be a public inquiry.  It should be open, and fair, and the courts should be ready to prosecute cops who were out of line. But for that matter, I think that those engaged in criminal activism should be prosecuted as well.  A fair judicial system is just as important as confiscating sharpened sticks when it comes to stopping those who engage in Black Bloc tactics.

 

[The Bread Guy]

.... The Italians maintain 11 battalions of Carabinieri for the same purposes ....

Not to mention all the many levels of paramilitary federal-level police forces.  And other European countries have the same.

Good points.

Maikeru333 - welcome to Army.ca.  I'm curious - what's your take on why the peaceful protesters didn't denounce violence or property damage.  After all, a lot of people are saying the vandalism took away big time from the main messages everyone SAID they wanted to get across.

Also, how about the eyewitness accounts of how Black Bloc'ers were changing into and out of their clothes to blend into/out of the peaceful crowds?
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Craig+Kielburger+blog+Shrouded+destructors+hijack+peaceful+message/3208426/story.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/terrorism-security/2010/0627/Black-Bloc-tactics-mar-Canada-s-G-20-summit
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/06/27/black-bloc-g20-627.html

Also, what do you mean by "manipulating the media"?  Aren't there all sorts of non-MSM media outlets sharing an "alternative" message?  Are you suggesting the stories aren't coming out?

 

[maikeru333]

there is video showing the 'anarchist black block tactic terrorist alien mind absorbing demonically possessed...' sorry where was i? they had new clothes, nice, expensive boots... all the same... maybe mil issue... anarchists without jobs can't afford too often...

http://coto2.wordpress.com/2010/06/27/500-arrested-at-g20-black-bloc-may-be-psyops/

this is to put the false flag operation, and team of 'plainclothes agents' into better perspective.

montebello is the keyword you're looking for. agent provacateurs might be useful too.  there were people theorizing the same about the rbc bank incident - violence turns off lots of people, so it was thought they may have targeting 'some activist leader types' early on to get them away from the g20, or whatever other issues they were organizing for... lots of leaders were targeted - non-violent protesters, independent media - there's lots of video of police doing snatches in the middle of non-violent protest to take people out, some of whom were described as organizers... not as much video of some of the violence close range, because the media were targetted first... and none from inside (well, that we have access to everything was on video, and mic'd, in the 'film studio' short term prisons... ... don't know if that was feeding to the g20 summit too or not... stripped searched and fondled, starved protesters... you can give people bio-ch1p$ through food, orally, interestingly... after not being giving access to food, water, phone access... and targetting people differntly, like people who wouldn't know their rights... hmm you'll hear about the sexual abuse in more detail later anyways)

getting distracted... been trying to follow this as it happens.

I guess the point is, i know you really want to defend your buddies, but that's not your job; just like that's not the polices job to beat the shit out of citizens lawfully standing up for their rights, their beliefs, and Canadian values.  I'm sure security forces appreciate it though when other security forces types make up excuses for them and discount media etc so they don't have to do as much work white washing the blood they spilled, the lives they ruin, and the policies, people, and lies they are really protecting.

Nuremburg says it is your duty to disobey unlawful orders, regardless of being given them from up the chain of command; obviously they only use this in practice to scapegoat people to avoid scandals of important personal doing the dirty work they want to protect, but in theory it means you don't stand up for your values, when the fit hits the shan, its on your own head: that is to say, they will use you for what they think you are good for, try and keep you stupid, and then spit you out when they are done with you.

The difference between martial arts and three weeks of killing techniques is not about who can kill the easiest, because you can teach that pretty quickly; its about being able to defend yourself, and knowing WHEN AND WHY to use those techniques; or even TO HAVE THE SKILL TO OVERPOWER SOMEONE WITHOUT HURTING THEM.  When all you care about is kill ratio, and policy makers' troops are only so much fodder, these techniques are simlpy TIME CONSUMING and INEFFICIENT.  Who care if you make killing machines who can't be reintegrtated into socitiety, and could wake up in the middle of the night and kill a loved one on reflex before they know its just some ptsd flashback nightmare?

I don't know what that bothers me, i have no military background... past life?

yeah see now i'm wasting your and my time ranting, when the videos pretty much speak for themselves, about who was burning what, and why.  quick summary of montebello - the technique was to have operatives START VIOLENCE to justify VIOLENT REPRESSION, at least in the mainstream media, who could control and spin what was shown to keep it hush hush... its just that it was a tight knit group, and some were pretty quick on the ball.
i bet some people call them paranoid. or conspiracy theorists. possible true. possibly saved people a much worse beating that time, too. it still happened there; they just waited for the main bus loads of people to leave - that is to say, it was LESS DANGEROUS so they decided to use MORE FORCE.  my intuitive interpretation of this is that they were less concerned about physical reprisals from the activists present then, or videos coming out, etc.

people grabbing person's jugulars as a 'pain compliance technique' risk killing those protesters, as the muscles in the neck that hold the jugular there are in fact, when ripped (there does not need to be any bleeding, it is a nerve response thing), what causes death from the supposed 'neck snapping' or seeing of chiropractors, etc.
I wonder if the police doing that are AWARE of this risk, or are only taught that it is useful to make someone pass out, and pain compliance: i don't like the answer, either way.

Anyways, i'm sure you've found some good links, i skipped some pages in there, so something must have come up in all this debate since my previous post on #29

You have to pick a side at some point. I don't mean Harper's, or the protesters.  I mean did you sign up to kill anyone you were told to, for money; or did you sign up to stand for something, and what Canada COULD and SHOULD be.  Canada is not its government; its not its land, its resources, its military, its tv.  CANADA IS ITS PEOPLE, AND WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN.
I know what kind of CANADA I believe in, and its not the Canada I'm living in right now...
But the Canada I'm living in right now is where I learned the Canada I do believe in; and I think I'm not the only one.
Sorry if I wasted your time.