Forced to pay / belong to a mess [Merged]

[Scott]

I'm talking about the concept of a mess as a fraternal social organization in general.  Whether messes are established for each rank, rank group, or not at all is not the  point.  The point is that there are many social organizations out there that are similar to our messes and are thriving.  You're inferring too much specific detail from what I'm saying.

Pardon me, I was carefully considering the source.

 

[Sub_Guy]

Didn't Vern address this before. It seems she had a member who wouldn't pay but was still told to attend, and wasn't served a meal but still had to sit there for the dinner!

If someone were so inclined to refuse to pay for the dinner, could he/she bring their own?  I can't seem to find any reference stating otherwise.

On a side note, now that we are on the points system, why aren't the bowtie and white shirt available to us from Logistik?  I had a read through the dress manual and it states that mess dress is optional for NCM's, so is the white shirt and tie optional?  Before I would have been told "you get 17.30 a month for this kind of crap".

 

[armyvern]

If someone were so inclined to refuse to pay for the dinner, could he/she bring their own?  I can't seem to find any reference stating otherwise.

There probably isn't a reference, so they probably could bring a dinner with them ...

Personally, I think that if I refused to pay and was then ordered to attend that that would be the first and major clue that bringing in a Happy Meal in a bag (or other meal) wouldn't be such a swift move. Given the normal Mess Dinner start timings, there'd be no reason the member could not have eaten his meal prior to attending. If they didn't do that, then they are just pushing switches and trying "to make a point". Point is, we get paid for this stuff (mil factor) and it IS part of the job (as shown in the linked court martial results: are people missing that bit when they read it?) so the actual point that would come out of it certainly wouldn't be favorable to the one who thinks he's "got a point to make". Such a move would be extremely unfavorable and silly in my books.

On a side note, now that we are on the points system, why aren't the bowtie and white shirt available to us from Logistik?  I had a read through the dress manual and it states that mess dress is optional for NCM's, so is the white shirt and tie optional?  Before I would have been told "you get 17.30 a month for this kind of crap".

Because your CUA (Clothing Upkeep Allowance) used to be paid for maintaining and replacing Permanent Allotment Kit items ... ie your DEUs. Mess Kit never was and still is NOT P.A.K.; nor were haircuts, bootpolish etc covered by CUA.

 

[aesop081]

There probably isn't a reference, so they probably could bring a dinner with them ...

A few years ago, i was at a mess dinner, sitting next to a Major that Dolphin_Hunter knows, when he had 3 pizzas delivered to our end of the table. Delivery guy walked into the mess, to the dining room and brought them right to us prior to the meal being served.

 

[armyvern]

A few years ago, i was at a mess dinner, sitting next to a Major that Dolphin_Hunter knows, when he had 3 pizzas delivered to our end of the table. Delivery guy walked into the mess, to the dining room and brought them right to us prior to the meal being served.

You sure I wasn't there?  ;D

I spent Christmas and New Years leave doing Base Duty O for stopping by Greco on the way to a Mess Dinner, Ordering and Paying for a Pizza, then having it delivered to "Guest X" at the head table for 2100hrs. Dude knew nothing about it yet somehow the RSM knew it was me instantaneously; go figure.

I posted that story on this site quite a few years ago; sounds like someone has stolen my gag! 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

A few years ago, i was at a mess dinner, sitting next to a Major that Dolphin_Hunter knows, when he had 3 pizzas delivered to our end of the table. Delivery guy walked into the mess, to the dining room and brought them right to us prior to the meal being served.

However CA, a 'Mess' dinner connotates a military event.

Something we all know the Air Force is loath to undertake and incapable of performing anyway. ;D

 

[aesop081]

However CA, a 'Mess' dinner connotates a military event.

Something we all know the Air Force is loath to undertake and incapable of performing anyway. ;D

Meh.....works for us.

 

[armyvern]

By the sounds of Vern's mess dinner, i would say that the RCAF is doing just fine  ;D

I absolutely love Mess Dinners. I think they're a blast.  ;D

I went to an AF one while posted in Trenton and it wasn't quite the same, but perhaps I was just a wee bit shier waaaayyyy back then.  8)

 

[dogger1936]

My last few years at the regiment had mostly mixed Officer/NCO dinners with no problems at all. Infact with the sheer number of mess dinners it was nice to have a crowd to vary conversation!

Best thing in the world is toast and coffee at the mess. The amount of planning that happens there is sheer awesome. Bagels keep the regiment running.

 

[PMedMoe]

but perhaps I was just a wee bit shier waaaayyyy back then.  8)

What were you, five? 

 

[2 Cdo]

Now that I am fully retired I think back to all the things I'll miss in the CF, and near the top is mess dinners! Loved them, actually wished they had them more often when I was in!

 

[Sub_Guy]

Because your CUA (Clothing Upkeep Allowance) used to be paid for maintaining and replacing Permanent Allotment Kit items ... ie your DEUs. Mess Kit never was and still is NOT P.A.K.; nor were haircuts, bootpolish etc covered by CUA.

Agreed, but couldn't a NCM (because it is not written anywhere that we shall obtain mess dress), fight being forced to pay for a white shirt and bow tie? 

For the record I do own a bow tie and many, many white shirts, and I really like the idea of showing up with a happy meal, better yet a bucket of KFC...

 

[dimsum]

A few years ago, i was at a mess dinner, sitting next to a Major that Dolphin_Hunter knows, when he had 3 pizzas delivered to our end of the table. Delivery guy walked into the mess, to the dining room and brought them right to us prior to the meal being served.

Bit of a long shot, but said Major wouldn't be associated with a certain Flintstones character, would he?  If so, he also rocked up at a Mess Dinner (which you were probably there for) wearing his flying boots instead of Oxfords, which I think I'll start doing here  ;D

 

[Kalatzi]

Speak for the RCN if you want but saying "military environment" is going a bit far. It works poorly from an RCAF perspective (at least aircrews, which i can speak to)

Good example : A CP-140 crew. Can't go to traditional messes for a beer after a mission because 10 people span everything from Private to LCol.

All-ranks messes, hands down.

I'm pretty sure that the junior ranks would welcome visitor's to their mess. 

 

[a_majoor]

Years ago in London, it became a habit to drop into the Kelsey's across the road from base for dinner on Thursday nights (saved long trips home, a frantic dash for dinner only to drive back for 1900h). After a while, people simply congregated at the same table and had dinner and the occasional drink together in a social setting. This later expanded to class A people getting together in the same Kelsey's after work, with no one being worse for wear that I ever noticed.

Sadly, this practice was forcibly ended once the various messes noticed their bar receipts were declining...

 

[Good2Golf]

...Sadly, this practice was forcibly ended once the various messes noticed their bar receipts were declining...

By being ordered not to go to a certain restaurant once off duty?  How does that work?  ???

I'm pretty sure that the junior ranks would welcome visitor's to their mess. 

The idea of an all-ranks social centre is that folks have the choice of going to their own messes, or socializing together.  Various ranks visiting each others' messes on a regular basis, invited or not, does not provide the 'refuge' from others that is one of the aspects of the messing structure.

:2c:

Regards
G2G

 

[aesop081]

Bit of a long shot, but said Major wouldn't be associated with a certain Flintstones character, would he?

Not, not him.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I'm pretty sure that the junior ranks would welcome visitor's to their mess.

Not so sure. I've been given the "are you almost done that drink?....." by a CSM after being invited to the SNCOs mess by the Ops O (a WO) only to have the same CSM walk into the JRs mess and grab drinks when his mess closed up for the night.

I've had to ask SNCOs to leave the JRs because they were uninvited and the troops weren't comfortable drinking around them.

It takes a very mature and team oriented mind set (a la CDN Aviator's example) for an all ranks mess.

 

[Pat in Halifax]

I am sure you have heard it all before but bare with me. The Chiefs and POs (or WOs and Sgts) Mess is the only one you have to EARN your way into. I don't know about some of you but as humorous as I find it, Messes SHOULD NOT intermingle (with the exception of special ocassions like Christmas or other such events).
I have kicked my fair share of OS, AB, LS, MS and while we are at it Cdrs and once even a Cmdre out of the Mess I worked too f***ing hard to get into.
It sounds like you guys might have a serious problem!?

 

[aesop081]

Messes SHOULD NOT intermingle

The RCN : 100 years of tradition unimpeded by progress.

If it works for the Navy, you can keep it that way there. In my RCAF, not so much.

I can understand working hard to get into the C&POs mess after seeing the differing standards between A-Block and Juno tower. "Know your men and promote their welfare" ..........