Fitness for Operational Requirements of CAF Employment ( FORCE )

[Harris]

Then run the FORCE test before the Christmas dinner, when everyone is together.

And a valid fitness and medical profile are requirements for full-time employment; for short duration tasks you may be able to dodge them, but not for others.

Your missing my point.  I agree I have to run FORCE, but something else is going to give.  As for the "have a current fitness and medical profile" bit, I also agree that is a requirement, however since Class A reservists are also not entitled to current medicals except for promotion/deployment in general, those too are done on a case by case basis.  All of these small numbers of FORCE testing, or medicals cost me extra funds and time I wasn't given to start with.  I can't send a van load of troops for a medical until they fit into a category above.  Therefore I'm sending one or two pers at a time all year long and then sending a driver and van to take them or paying mileage.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Your missing my point.  I agree I have to run FORCE, but something else is going to give.  As for the "have a current fitness and medical profile" bit, I also agree that is a requirement, however since Class A reservists are also not entitled to current medicals except for promotion/deployment in general, those too are done on a case by case basis.  All of these small numbers of FORCE testing, or medicals cost me extra funds and time I wasn't given to start with.  I can't send a van load of troops for a medical until they fit into a category above.  Therefore I'm sending one or two pers at a time all year long and then sending a driver and van to take them or paying mileage.

Umm.. don't medicals expire in 5 years so irregardless they should be entitled?

 

[Harris]

Umm.. don't medicals expire in 5 years so irregardless they should be entitled?

That used to be the case.  Currently in 5 Div in Halifax and Greenwood at least that is no longer the case.  The medical side of the house isn't funded for Class A so they have stopped doing them when they used to before.  I was supposed to get one this year and I was told no go unless I'm promoted or deploying.  Div HQ confirmed.  After 40 it's every two years.

 

[DAA]

Not in 36 CBG, at least not according to the current DRAFT Op Plan.

Fitness testing standards are/should be universal right across all components (Reg and Res) of the CF.  So if someone is listed as "On Strength" for a unit and are parading Class A, they are subject to the same standard.

It just doesn't make any sense, that a Class A would not have to do a fitness test.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Remember we are the red headed step-child that no one wants....

 

[dapaterson]

Medicals are good for 5 years to age 40, then 2 years beyond.  And I empathize with trying to get a valid medical for a class A soldier, and with more demands on your time than funds to pay for it, and with having a unit spread over a wide geographic areas.

CANARMYGEN 006/13 provides the last Army Direction I've seen.  While FORCE is not mandatory for class A Army Reservists, I suspect most weeknight training plans have enough flex to fit in one testing period.  For units in multiple locations, those tests do not necessarily have to be on the same night.

 

[ballz]

Regretably, BFOR's are only applicable to the CF in general.  What you are "advocating" is an "Environmental" fitness standard which is pretty much location/posting specific.  Should have, could have been done years and years ago.

I'm not so sure that a BFOR has to be "applicable to the CF in general," but I'll stand by to be corrected on this.

The CAF had a bona fide requirement to be physically fit, therefore we had the EXPRES test (which is also why there could be different gender/age standards).

The Army had a bona fide requirement to be able to ruckmarch 13km with weight, in a certain time span, to be able to dig a trench, and to be able to drag a casualty.

Each trade has various medical standards. Those are all BFORs. That is why it is legal to "discriminate" against someone who has less than perfect vision and tell them they can't be a pilot. If it was not determined to be a BFOR, it wouldn't be legal to do that.

My understanding is that the BFT was a BFOR for anyone in the army, no different than having certain vision requirements for a pilot. They called it the environmental standard because it was only the army that was subject to it. However, they have trade-specific BFORs, I don't see why the infantry cannot make the case that it needs a different physical fitness requirement based on the bona fide requirements of the job.

BFORs are not a military specific thing, they are a human resources thing and the legal framework is the same for the CAF as it is for the rest of the civilian world, AFAIK.

 

[Haggis]

Then run the FORCE test before the Christmas dinner, when everyone is together.

Great idea!  If you don't pass, you don't eat.  ;D

 

[PanaEng]

And that will probably be the first thing dropped form IBTS from some Reserve Units....

Not in my unit!!!
CHIMO!

 

[caocao]

I am taking part into a study looking into the relationship between cardio and The FORCE Test.  Did a VO2 Max test earlier this week and doing the Force Test (for the 4th time since Mar 13!) tomorrow morning.  The study is conducted in the NCR and they are looking for pers of all ages, sexes, size and shape.

I assume the results will be used to develop a better test but i am not 100% sure.

 

[DAA]

I am taking part into a study looking into the relationship between cardio and The FORCE Test.  Did a VO2 Max test earlier this week and doing the Force Test (for the 4th time since Mar 13!) tomorrow morning.  The study is conducted in the NCR and they are looking for pers of all ages, sexes, size and shape.

I assume the results will be used to develop a better test but i am not 100% sure.

Can you put a definition on your comment of "VO2 Max Test"?

Something that looks like this ----->  http://adventure.howstuffworks.com/outdoor-activities/triathlons/training/vo2-max.htm

Or another method?

 

[Griffon]

I'm going to throw out an educated guess here and say that there will be little correlation between VO2 Max and FORCE test performance past a certain level. My reasoning is that the duration of each stage can be much shorter than that normally required to require maximal aerobic performance.  Most of the tasks can be completed in less than a minute, placing their durations completely in the anaerobic zone. If the CAF maintains the break durations currently in place, there is more than ample time allotted to recover after each task.

Therefore, I don't think they will find that the FORCE test, in and of itself, is a good indicator of cardiovascular capacity. But, generally speaking, those participants that do well on the test will likely have a higher VO2 Max than the mean for the participant group.

All this to say it sounds like another waste of money to me.

 

[caocao]

Can you put a definition on your comment of "VO2 Max Test"?

Something that looks like this ----->  http://adventure.howstuffworks.com/outdoor-activities/triathlons/training/vo2-max.htm

Or another method?

Yes that's exactly it.  You start a pace that get tour hb at approx 70% of max effort, then every 2 minutes they increase the incline by 2%.  You continue until failure/you cannot do i anymore.  You are expected to also go all out on the force test. 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Then run the FORCE test before the Christmas dinner, when everyone is together.

Now that sounds like a Soldier's Dinner that everyone wants to attend.  :blotto:

I don't know about today, but back when I was a young Tpr, more than a few of us were into the Christmas Spirit(s) before the dinner and on the bus ride to the RHQ armoury.  A PT test might have been entertaining to watch.

 

[PMedMoe]

Now that sounds like a Soldier's Dinner that everyone wants to attend.  :blotto:

I don't know about today, but back when I was a young Tpr, more than a few of us were into the Christmas Spirit(s) before the dinner and on the bus ride to the RHQ armoury.  A PT test might have been entertaining to watch.

Intermittent Loaded Shuttles....or Intermittent Loaded Staggers....    ;D

 

[DAA]

Yes that's exactly it.  You start a pace that get tour hb at approx 70% of max effort, then every 2 minutes they increase the incline by 2%.  You continue until failure/you cannot do i anymore.  You are expected to also go all out on the force test.

So long as you were "wired" up (ECG) and "masked", then it seems that they may be trying to validate or establish a "predicted/baselined" VO2 max assignment, which can be correlated to individual FORCE test end results.  Something similar to the CF Express Eval, during the time when the step test was involved and once you were stopped, based on the level you achieved, they basically assigned you a "predicted" VO2 max on the express forms.

Sort of makes sense from a scientific/statistical perspective. 

Thanks for sharing........

 

[x_para76]

In the Brits the two standard PT tests that were common across the army were the 1.5 mile run and the 8 mile ruck march. Even if the ruck march is something that should be specific to the army the 1.5 mile run is something that could be common to all branches.

 

[McG]

... the 1.5 mile run is something that could be common to all branches.

So, let's say 2.5 km?

I like the Army's 5 km fitness check.

 

[Biggoals2bdone]

But you know the Navy guys will say how are we supposed to run 1-5km on ships.

 

[upandatom]

The coopers test, It is a good check of general fitness, or the PT 500,
for those that dont know PT 500 is like the cooper with some exceptions

1. 2.4 km run (increasing scores depending on time, max score was at 9 min)
2. Situps, (or a variation as situps have been shown to be useless, and just put more pressure on the hips without as much benefit as expected unlike other core exercises)(lets say timed planks, etc, or leg raises,
3. Bench press 100lbs max reps ( im fairly certain points maxed at 25 so 4 pts per press)
4. Chin ups Max Reps, (max score at 10)
5. Pushups

I think the max scores for most of those were that, not 100% sure, it was near those points I think.

Each part of the test counts for 100, say you suck at chin ups, but can bench press 100lbs till the cows come home, then you make up for it. Its a good way to test overall, your end score is a good result of your fitness level, and it is noticeable who is not in shape and who is in good shape.

I realise that this may be a simple and easy test for some, and most would easily get a 425 or more, but, as for CF wide, I think it is alot better off of a starting point then this "Forces Test"