Fitness for Operational Requirements of CAF Employment ( FORCE )

[Eye In The Sky]

That is the roll of the infantry, it is not every on else's roll. It would not make sense for a hard Navy trade to train to do that. The test is the basic fitness level. If your trade or branch wants/needs some thing more then have at it.

???  I think you are thinking "to close with and destroy the enemy".

What is posted is correct;  example ASW = killing people.  ASW isn't a role of the Infantry. 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Boiled down to the bottom line, everyone in the Forces is meant to kill people, if required, otherwise we wouldn't give everyone weapons training and expect them to stay proficient. Even if it's just once a year.

Trade be damned.

It's not a hobby.

 

[Towards_the_gap]

Not only that. Good level of fitness = less prone to injury/illness = less money spent on entirely preventable illnesses and injuries.

 

[daftandbarmy]

6. CONDITION

High physical condition is vital to victory.

There are more tired corps and division commanders than there are tired corps and divisions.

Fatigue makes cowards of us all. Men in condition do not tire.


http://historicaltextarchive.com/sections.php?action=read&artid=384

 

[x_para76]

:goodpost:

 

[Navy_Pete]

That is the roll of the infantry, it is not every on else's roll. It would not make sense for a hard Navy trade to train to do that. The test is the basic fitness level. If your trade or branch wants/needs some thing more then have at it.

This is actually a reasonably good test for the Navy as well as there are common activities that could use the same sort of motions.

Lift things up = general strength test, varies from storing ship, humping ammo (with kid gloves) and also general damage control type activities (dragging charged hoses, AFFF canisters, fighting floods etc)

Casualty drag = Oddly enough, people in the navy could get hurt to and need to be dragged out of an area (fire zone).  They could even be in bunker gear with air tanks on.  The difference is you can't go more then 20 feet without having to go through a watertight door and over a coaming.  You may or may not be alone at the time, and odds are good they weigh more, but still.

sprints with jazz hands = Run ashore to the bars?  Just a general aerobic/speed test.

Sure, we don't carry our stuff around ourselves but we are pretty reliant on our ship to stay floating and moving along, and train to do all these kind of thing as well.  There may be better tests, but makes more sense to me then doing sit ups or push ups.  The difference is that the ship is our weapon, whereas infantry carries theirs.  You need your crew operating properly for the ship to be able to kill people and wreck their stuff (or whatever the mission happens to be; could easily be saving people and fixing their stuff as well), and having a fit crew not making poor decisions due to fatigue is a good thing.

My only thing is that the standard is low enough that it's hard to fail, but the PT test really shouldn't be your only tool to combat obesity, and don't think that's the goal.  All it is really supposed to do is give a baseline standard for the universality of service requirements, which it seems to do. :2c:

 

[daftandbarmy]

This is actually a reasonably good test for the Navy as well as there are common activities that could use the same sort of motions.

Lift things up = general strength test, varies from storing ship, humping ammo (with kid gloves) and also general damage control type activities (dragging charged hoses, AFFF canisters, fighting floods etc)

Casualty drag = Oddly enough, people in the navy could get hurt to and need to be dragged out of an area (fire zone).  They could even be in bunker gear with air tanks on.  The difference is you can't go more then 20 feet without having to go through a watertight door and over a coaming.  You may or may not be alone at the time, and odds are good they weigh more, but still.

sprints with jazz hands = Run ashore to the bars?  Just a general aerobic/speed test.

Sure, we don't carry our stuff around ourselves but we are pretty reliant on our ship to stay floating and moving along, and train to do all these kind of thing as well.  There may be better tests, but makes more sense to me then doing sit ups or push ups.  The difference is that the ship is our weapon, whereas infantry carries theirs.  You need your crew operating properly for the ship to be able to kill people and wreck their stuff (or whatever the mission happens to be; could easily be saving people and fixing their stuff as well), and having a fit crew not making poor decisions due to fatigue is a good thing.

My only thing is that the standard is low enough that it's hard to fail, but the PT test really shouldn't be your only tool to combat obesity, and don't think that's the goal.  All it is really supposed to do is give a baseline standard for the universality of service requirements, which it seems to do. :2c:

Speaking as an Airborne guy with a tiny bit of experience with the Navy, I think that we should use 'firefighting on a burning ship at night in a heavy sea while under air attack' as the standard for everyone.  :nod:

 

[Tank Troll]

???  I think you are thinking "to close with and destroy the enemy".

What is posted is correct;  example ASW = killing people.  ASW isn't a role of the Infantry.

You missed the first part of the discussion where D&B said that the new tasks were very defensive and that they missed the whole concept of "Close with and destroy the enemy"  Then he just quoted Gen Hillier as his come back.

N_P I concur that it is a good standard for as the basics for all trades, and elements. What I was saying was that hard Navy trades wouldn't benefit from specific training that infantry would need or like in a PT test.

Recce Guy Not every one does ranges every year we had a couple of pers on our work up training that had not touched a rifle since the FN in basic.

 

[armyvern]

...

Recce Guy Not every one does ranges every year we had a couple of pers on our work up training that had not touched a rifle since the FN in basic.

True that;  I only did my PWTs when I was actually CFTPOd to deploy overseas while serving with the RCAF and the RCN.  I've done them ever year only in the Cdn Army and Joint.

On my last tour, 2010/11, we actually had an augmentee type from Disney on the Rideau state that it was his first time firing the "new" weapon (the C7 ...).  :-X

 

[armrecceman]

So, once in full effectiveness on 1 Apr 14, will the FORCE test be used as the PT test in the recruitment process for the reserves? Or will that remain what it is now (push-ups, sit-ups, step test/beep test, I believe)? Also, will there still be a beep test used in the FORCE eval? Or are they only evaluating the cardio aspects covered in the FORCE, such as the 20m rushes?

 

[Matt_k]

As I posted in the Basic training forms, its seem some changes are being made, for reg force at least, effective Jan 1. like a combination of the two. I don't know if this is across the board or just reg. 

 

[PMedMoe]

I'm surprised with the FORCE test rolling out, that this thread hasn't been updated.  Found this page with the Initial Physical Fitness Evaluation (changing as of 01 Feb 2014):

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/training-establishments/recruit-school-basic-training.page

 

[DAA]

I'm surprised with the FORCE test rolling out, that this thread hasn't been updated.  Found this page with the Initial Physical Fitness Evaluation (changing as of 01 Feb 2014):

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/training-establishments/recruit-school-basic-training.page

Here is what CFRC's are providing to newly enrolled personnel.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/113543.0.html

 

[PMedMoe]

Perhaps that other thread should be "stickied". 

 

[rebeccag19]

I wonder if this rule applies to those already in service..

"The new testing, which is in a year-long transitional period until April 1 2014, will replace old standards which had different requirements for women and older personnel." ... "If someone doesn’t pass the new test during the transitional period they can revert back to the old one, which consisted of pushups, sit-ups, strength and cardio testing".

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/our-communities/metro/Canadian-Forces-roll-out-universal-physical-test-206501191.html?device=mobile

 

[PuckChaser]

I wonder if this rule applies to those already in service..

It was specifically designed for people who are already in the service. You must attempt FORCE. If you fail, you can do BFT or EXPRES, and the FORCE fail is not grounds for remedial measures. If you fail FORCE and EXPRES, you can be placed on remedial measures. That transition is gone as of 1 Apr 14, you will have to pass FORCE.

 

[rebeccag19]

That's some awesome information. I just happened to see the above link and wondered who it applied to.
Thanks!

 

[Jarnhamar]

Warrior platoon questions.

If a member is placed in warrior platoon how often are they tested (in terms of graduating from platoon)?

What is the time limit a member can stay in warrior platoon before they are released?

 

[MPHopeful13]

Don't think fat camp's changing. Tests every 30 days, get the boot after 3 failures (90 days).

 

[Jarnhamar]

Thanks.