Fitness for Operational Requirements of CAF Employment ( FORCE )

[PteAJL]

I just did the FORCE test last night.
From experience the test is a joke. Any soldier who is in decent shape should be able to complete the test with ample time left on each component.
The timings are very generous, and I do hope they raise the standard.

 

[OldSolduer]

I just did the FORCE test last night.
From experience the test is a joke. Any soldier who is in decent shape should be able to complete the test with ample time left on each component.
The timings are very generous, and I do hope they raise the standard.

Perhaps fast forward your self thirty years and see how you feel then. It's a bit different then.

 

[MJP]

Perhaps fast forward your self thirty years and see how you feel then. It's a bit different then.

Well I admit there may be outliers Jim, I have yet to see anyone in a shape less than obese and without any medical limitation, at any age fail the FORCE test outright.  Granted my sample size is small (Svc Bn) compared to the CAF as a whole, but we certainly have a lot of folks at the upper range of the age scale complete the test with little difficulty.  Some people display difficulty with aspects of the test at the onset due to unfamiliarity to either the testing protocol (shuttle run) or how to use their body properly (sand bag drag) but once given some direction they have no issues with the test itself.

I am glad that there is one standard for all regardless of age and gender.

 

[OldSolduer]

MJP fully agree. I didn't like the tone of his post, given the fact that he is the ripe old age of 17.

Kinda like a new private giving the RSM the benefit of his vast experience.

BTW I passed the FORCE test. A few in my peer group didn't.

 

[Jarnhamar]

MJP fully agree. I didn't like the tone of his post, given the fact that he is the ripe old age of 17.

Kinda like a new private giving the RSM the benefit of his vast experience.

BTW I passed the FORCE test. A few in my peer group didn't.

A good friend of mine just passed the BMQs fitness test a couple of days ago.  She went from an absolutely sedimentary lifestyle 3 months ago (She started at almost being able to do one pushup and went into BMQ being able to do 9-10). She's in her 30s and passed, sounds like almost a dozen or so people didn't- including some young 19-20 year olds.

A 17 year old  bragging about passing the FORCE test is like a teenager bragging about being mature because they have acne :nod:

 

[daftandbarmy]

MJP fully agree. I didn't like the tone of his post, given the fact that he is the ripe old age of 17.

Kinda like a new private giving the RSM the benefit of his vast experience.

BTW I passed the FORCE test. A few in my peer group didn't.

Just to clarify: your peer group runs 1/2 marathons.... the people who failed are not in your peer group (but they friggin' well should be  ;D)

 

[OldSolduer]

Just to clarify: your peer group runs 1/2 marathons.... the people who failed are not in your peer group (but they friggin' well should be  ;D)

Now that you put it that way,,,,,,

 

[Canadian.Trucker]

Perhaps fast forward your self thirty years and see how you feel then. It's a bit different then.

You still have 15 years to hit that benchmark, no?  /suck up 

For me I too felt that the test was a little light, but it still got the blood flowing and wasn't a complete blowout for younger personnel.  There's never going to be a one size fits all solution, but maybe with a few tweaks the FORCE test is on the right track.

 

[Harris]

Question for you guys.  How do you propose the Reserves handle this issue?  I ask because FORCE is not mandatory for my Class A soldiers.  The only time they have to do it is if they are going on a leadership course, deploying, promotion, or for Snr appt (CO/RSM).  Nor am I funded to conduct FORCE.  Finally, the LBM is recommended but not mandatory.  I have put FORCE testing for all in the OP Plan, but something else won't get done as well as it should to compensate.  I have also put ruck marches into the Op Plan, but again something else will suffer.  The only paid time my guys get to do PT is one period every Thur.  Not much but better then most of the other Units in the Brigade.  I get that it should be a personal commitment, but it's hard to say that when the full timers get paid time (if they use it) to do PT every day.

I appreciate any thoughts/ideas.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Harris, I may be mistaken but FORCE is required for everything i.e. Career Courses (not leadership courses), Taskings, etc... so to me it seems to be a catch 22.... CFSME has already stated that any staff or students arriving without FORCE will be RTU'ed at unit expense....

 

[DAA]

Ack, like I said, an argument needs to be made for a higher level of fitness as a bona fide occupational requirement for certain trades.

For the infantry, our brigade is making the BFT as a part of the IBTS so that you still have to do it, but the BFT has been around for a while and it clearly wasn't accomplishing what I'm am advocating for. A BFT with FFO including frag vest and plates, with a 50 lbs ruck, would be a good start.

EDIT: A cardio component added to the FORCE test wouldn't be a bad idea either.

CF Express was around for quite sometime and look how long that lasted and then how long it took for the recent change to be implemented.  Come to think about it, so was the "Fit to Fight", "13k", "Warrior Trg", etc, etc, etc.

Regretably, BFOR's are only applicable to the CF in general.  What you are "advocating" is an "Environmental" fitness standard which is pretty much location/posting specific.  Should have, could have been done years and years ago.

I know what you are saying, not arguing your point. Just pointing out the obvious.

Harris, I may be mistaken but FORCE is required for everything i.e. Career Courses (not leadership courses), Taskings, etc... so to me it seems to be a catch 22.... CFSME has already stated that any staff or students arriving without FORCE will be RTU'ed at unit expense....

FORCE Testing, is a mandatory requirement for employment, period.

 

[dapaterson]

You can easily run two platoons through FORCE testing in a single training night.  I'm reasonably confident you can find one night somewhere between September and May to do that.

 

[Harris]

Harris, I may be mistaken but FORCE is required for everything i.e. Career Courses (not leadership courses), Taskings, etc... so to me it seems to be a catch 22.... CFSME has already stated that any staff or students arriving without FORCE will be RTU'ed at unit expense....

Interesting, I'll check the actual wording in the Brigade Comd Op Plan tomorrow.  Certainly my staff interpret it to be leadership courses.  Thanks for the heads up.  Of course that just makes getting FORCE harder and more expensive for something I've received no funding for.

To go along with this, I can't imagine what possible incentive the system could come up with for reservists.  More bling?  The last time we tried that it was a flopper.  I personally saw "Gold" level Cpls trying to tell "Bronze" Cpls what to do because they scored higher.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

You can easily run two platoons through FORCE testing in a single training night.  I'm reasonably confident you can find one night somewhere between September and May to do that.

Assuming they have staff that are FORCE trained...

 

[Harris]

You can easily run two platoons through FORCE testing in a single training night.  I'm reasonably confident you can find one night somewhere between September and May to do that.

Perhaps so if my Unit wasn't located in four different locations with up to an hour driving time between each one.  Currently I'll have two instructors qualified as of tomorrow.  Have asked for more spots but not likely until the fall.  Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the standard require 4 FORCE trained monitors per session?

Like I said I've got three sessions scheduled, but no funding for any of them.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Interesting, I'll check the actual wording in the Brigade Comd Op Plan tomorrow.  Certainly my staff interpret it to be leadership courses.  Thanks for the heads up.  Of course that just makes getting FORCE harder and more expensive for something I've received no funding for.

To go along with this, I can't imagine what possible incentive the system could come up with for reservists.  More bling?  The last time we tried that it was a flopper.  I personally saw "Gold" level Cpls trying to tell "Bronze" Cpls what to do because they scored higher.

:dunno: I know this is how we are doing it at my unit....

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Perhaps so if my Unit wasn't located in four different locations with up to an hour driving time between each one.  Currently I'll have two instructors qualified as of tomorrow.  Have asked for more spots but not likely until the fall.  Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the standard require 4 FORCE trained monitors per session?

Like I said I've got three sessions scheduled, but no funding for any of them.

We have ran 20+ pers through with only two instructors but that eats up most of the trg night....

 

[Harris]

FORCE Testing, is a mandatory requirement for employment, period.

Not in 36 CBG, at least not according to the current DRAFT Op Plan.

 

[dapaterson]

Perhaps so if my Unit wasn't located in four different locations with up to an hour driving time between each one.  Currently I'll have two instructors qualified as of tomorrow.  Have asked for more spots but not likely until the fall.  Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the standard require 4 FORCE trained monitors per session?

Like I said I've got three sessions scheduled, but no funding for any of them.

Then run the FORCE test before the Christmas dinner, when everyone is together.


And a valid fitness and medical profile are requirements for full-time employment; for short duration tasks you may be able to dodge them, but not for others.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Then run the FORCE test before the Christmas dinner, when everyone is together.


And a valid fitness and medical profile are requirements for full-time employment; for short duration tasks you may be able to dodge them, but not for others.

I believe that varies too... we had to get ppl FORCE tested before we did a 1 day Regimental Dml Trg in Gagetown....then again we were going out side the province (half of the regiment is in NL the other in NB)