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F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Sharpey
  • Start date Start date
milnews.ca said:
This just in - academic looks at Starfighter single-engine & U.S. historical stats and says we need better than F-35's single engine for flying over the Arctic:More from the think tank's news release:If you want to read the report, you can download it here (1.38 MB, 34 pages).


Prof Byres is, as one of the linked articles notes, formally affiliated with the Rideau Institute ... this is a very select company, with strict entry requirements, beginning with an IQ having just one digit.
 
PhD - studied and teaches literature, political studies and law. Failed NDP candidate for Vancouver Central.

How much more experience does one need to write about the engineering issues respecting next generation fighter aircraft.

Why none if its for the Canadian press.

:sarcasm:

:cheers:
 
Instead of shooting the messenger how about some informed criticism of Prof. Bryers report.
His report stats and comments would indicate that modern single engine aircraft are still disadvantaged versus twin engines aircraft.
I can remember the same arguments when we were shopping for a CF-104 replacement.

Thoughts comments on the report.

 
Baden Guy said:
Instead of shooting the messenger how about some informed criticism of Prof. Bryers report.
His report stats and comments would indicate that modern single engine aircraft are still disadvantaged versus twin engines aircraft.
I can remember the same arguments when we were shopping for a CF-104 replacement.

Thoughts comments on the report.

Actually I wasn't shooting the messenger. He's free to write whatever he wants. What I was aiming at was the press and the fact that they'll publish anything regardless of its source if it raises controversy (especially on this topic).

I'm not air force and couldn't care less what they fly so have no particular axe to grind on the suitability of one airframe over the other. I'll leave that debate to those who know.

I did read the report before I posted and found it superficial and glib. The statistics are not determinative of anything. The two v. one engine argument is akin to the one about how high speed on the highway kills and that if we reduce the speed on the 401 to 10 kph our highway death tolls will probably approach 0.

The technical issues on modern fighter aircraft involve higher levels of analysis on performance/technical trade-offs and risk tolerance than are covered in this "report". Instead we're given meaningless scaremongering on how many 777's have landed on one engine and using razor thin FMR ratio comparisons without context.

An oversimplification of a complex issue has once again been accepted by the press and published as an "expert report". Just once I wish these reporters would do some homework and attack this type of pseudo-science on a critical level.

:pop:
 
Byers doesn't differentiate between different types of bird strikes and lumps them altogether. For example, when comparing strikes between single engine vs twin engine fighters, I would think it only matters if the bird is ingested into the engine; if the strike is anywhere else (e.g. forward fuselage, canopy) how many engines you have is irrelevant.

My  :2c:.
 
The F-104 used by various countries in Europe (including our CF-104s) was a low level nuclear strike aircraft which flew in crowded skies plagued by crappy weather. The key phrase may well have been low level, and having been in 4 CIBG in the mid-sixties, 104s at low level were a no means uncommon sight. The not too far off the deck profile also tended to increase the probability of bird strikes, so Professor Byers may be stressing the wrong factor. In my opinion, to hang this on the loss of one pilot given the inherent risks in the job of flying high performance aircraft is the sort of thing the shiny domed pundit from the Rideau Institute would join Professor Byers in decrying, even though it was pretty much of a probability. The paper is a manufactured crisis, at least from the technically incapable viewpoint of this soldier.
 
Old Sweat said:
The F-104 used by various countries in Europe (including our CF-104s) was a low level nuclear strike aircraft which flew in crowded skies plagued by crappy weather. The key phrase may well have been low level, and having been in 4 CIBG in the mid-sixties, 104s at low level were a no means uncommon sight. The not too far off the deck profile also tended to increase the probability of bird strikes, so Professor Byers may be stressing the wrong factor. In my opinion, to hang this on the loss of one pilot given the inherent risks in the job of flying high performance aircraft is the sort of thing the shiny domed pundit from the Rideau Institute would join Professor Byers in decrying, even though it was pretty much of a probability. The paper is a manufactured crisis, at least from the technically incapable viewpoint of this soldier.

+1

One additional fact: as stated, the aircraft was initially conceived and deployed in 1962 as a low-level nuclear strike/reconnaissance  aircraft (which meant running in at low level then popping up to lob the nuke and scurrying back home).

However, in 1971 we got out of the nuke role and then started using it as a close air support vehicle with iron bombs and rockets, a job it was pretty much not made for and which often put it into hazardous situations.

For those interested, there is a web page dedicated to CF 104 crashes here: http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/Aircraft_by_Type/Canadian_CF-104.htm

(Just as another aside, the 15 Jul 68 punch out is my wife's brother-in-law who afterwards went on to have a long and distinguished career in the air force)  ;D

:nod: :cheers:
 
http://www.thestarphoenix.com/MacPherson+Only+best+fighter+good+enough+RCAF/9924331/story.html

MacPherson: Only the best jet fighter is good enough for RCAF

By Les MacPherson, The Starphoenix June 10, 2014

Choosing a new fighter jet for Canada has been a long and arduous ordeal, which is surprising since the choice is obvious.

We have to go with the American F-35. It's the best, a fifth-generation fighter in a field of fourth-generation rivals, and in air combat, the best prevails.

Generations of Canadian fighter pilots have learned the value of the best, sometimes the hard way.

Early in the First World War, the Germans ruled the sky because they had a superior fighter.

The Fokker Eindecker was of more or less modern layout, with a machine gun geared to fire forward, through the whirling propeller blades, without shooting them off. Against these the British sent up aircraft similar in both appearance and performance to box kites. They were sitting ducks.

When the British introduced better planes, they were briefly ascendant. The Germans answered with something better still, the Albatross, a streamlined fighter with two guns, and the upper hand was theirs again.

Back and forth it went, with the advantage always to the side with the better machines. No one was suggesting in those dark days that inferior fighters were good enough. Dark days like those are what we must prepare for.

It helped that a new fighter then could go from the drawing board to front line squadrons in a matter of months. Now, it takes decades. Here is one more reason for choosing the best. Whatever we get, we'll be stuck with for 30 years. That's a long time for regrets.

In the Second World War, inferior aircraft were destroyed or chased from the skies. The Japanese navy, for instance, started the war with the Zero, then the best carrier fighter in the Pacific. Zeros at first shot down American planes at a ratio of 12 to 1.

While the Japanese failed to significantly improve on the Zero, American carrier pilots met them with successively better fighters. The Zero by the end of the war was practically useless except as a suicide bomber.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the world, the Germans introduced the first operational jet fighter. It was too late in the war and too few in numbers to make a difference, but all other fighters suddenly were obsolete.

Today, there is a lot of guff about whether the F-35 really is a superior fighter compared to European, French and Swedish competitors.

Critics are saying the F-35 is not as fast, not as manoeuverable, that it is unreliable with only one engine and that it is more expensive than the alternatives. Well, the best almost always is more expensive. What sets apart the F-35 is not only its stealth but information technologies that connect the pilot with satellite surveillance, airborne radar or the sensor suite on a distant F-35. The aircraft also can intercept, decode and then hoodwink enemy radar into presenting a false picture. Enemies won't know what hit them. It's like Harry Potter against muggles.

As for the reliability over the vast Canadian arctic of one versus two engines, this was an issue in early days of jet engine development, since resolved. Single-engine fighters of more recent vintage are just as reliable as twin-engined fighters, in some cases, more so.

The single-engine F-16, for instance, after early teething problems, now has the best safety record of any contemporary American fighter.

A single engine also confers advantages of cost, maintenance, weight, streamlining and fuel efficiency while providing as much or more power, with the chance of engine failure compared to a twin.

A better place for a second engine is in a second fighter, say proponents of the F-35.

Capabilities are the highest priority, but there also are geographic and political reasons for choosing an American warplane for Canada. Do we really want a European warplane if war breaks out in Europe? Replacement parts will be hard to get if the supplier is occupied or under threat of military retaliation. Better to deal with our nearest, oldest and most vital defence partner.

If that means our air force gets stuck with a superior jet fighter, so be it.

© Copyright (c) The StarPhoenix
 
Defense News

F-35 Stable, but Software Potential Long-Term Issue
Jun. 13, 2014 - 04:21PM  |  By AARON MEHTA

The F-35 program is largely on track, but software remains a concern that could lead to delays down the road, according to top Pentagon officials.

The Pentagon is currently flying software block 2B on test fights, and is starting the process to load block 3I — essentially, the same software with better hardware – onto test flights. The situation is slightly different with the 3F block of software, which will deliver the greatest capabilities for the plane and is expected in the 2018 time frame.

"Our belief is that we're about six months behind in software development there,” US Air Force Lt. Gen. Christopher Bogdan, the head of the F-35 program office, said during Thursday conference call about the fifth-generation fighter.

(...EDITED)


The biggest challenge with 3F is the “fusion” of data, Frank Kendall, DoD undersecretary for acquisition, said.

“It's merging of information from different sensor systems on the aircraft and off the aircraft, information that comes from other airplanes that's transmitted to the F-35 and then merged with its own information,” he said.

“That's a difficult processing problem, it's a difficult computational problem,”
Kendall continued. “And just going through all the tests and getting the different aircraft that might need to be in a test together so that you can pull all the test off is challenging. And that's where the scheduling backup comes in.”

(...EDITED)
 
http://sploid.gizmodo.com/the-designer-of-the-f-16-explains-why-the-f-35-is-such-1591828468?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
 
So we spend all our money on the "best plane" and have no money for the "best ship" or the "best army kit" ? :stirpot: 
 
Baden Guy said:
So we spend all our money on the "best plane" and have no money for the "best ship" or the "best army kit" ? :stirpot:


That's what killed the Arrow. It didn't mater how good (or even great) the aircraft might have been: it was a budget killer, even for the rest of the RCAF.
 
The thing is that the JSF is no more a budget killer than the Super Hornet, Rafale or Typhoon...
 
It's funny how that point is very conveniently looked over every time there's a conversation about the next fighter, isn't it?
 
Defense News

F-35 Catches Fire on Takeoff at Eglin AFB
Jun. 23, 2014 - 07:47PM  |  By MARCUS WEISGERBER and AARON MEHTA  |

WASHINGTON — A US Air Force F-35 Joint Strike Fighter caught fire when attempting to take off from a Florida Air Force base Monday morning, Pentagon officials said.

The plane, which is assigned to the 33rd Fighter Wing at Eglin Air Force Base, the unit that trains F-35 pilots for the Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps and international militaries, experienced a fire in the aft end of the aircraft, according to an Air Force statement.

The pilot successfully shut down the plane and escaped unharmed, an F-35 program spokeswoman said. The fire was extinguished with foam by a ground crew.

Officials were assessing the damage and looking for the cause of the fire, the spokeswoman said.

(...EDITED)
 
article_large.jpg
 
Meanwhile ....
The Harper government is pressing pause on a decision to buy new jet fighters, including whether to purchase Lockheed Martin’s F-35 Lightning II without holding a competition, because it feels ministers need more information on other options before selecting a course of action.

There will be no decision this month on the next step – whether to hold a competition for a new plane or purchase the F-35 outright – and it is very unlikely anything will be announced even by mid-July, The Globe and Mail has learned.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper removed the item from the agenda of a recent meeting of cabinet’s priorities and planning committee to give ministers more time to deliberate and gather information, people familiar with the matter say. Priorities and planning is the main cabinet committee that provides strategic direction.

Sources say the government feels it’s being rushed and pressured by the Canadian Armed Forces and parts of the civil service to purchase the F-35 without a competition. The government, which took a serious credibility hit in 2012 over its poor management of the procurement process, is now concerned only one fully fleshed-out option has been presented for review and that it resembled a decision to be ratified rather than a well-developed option ....
So, if "sources" diss "the Canadian Armed Forces and parts of the civil service", I wonder what kind of sources might these might be?  :whistle:
 
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