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Election 2015

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Bass ackwards said:
Just caught a goodly part of the debate.
At one point, Mr Mulcair was accusing Mr Harper of "admitting" something during "a secret meeting with the media in Vancouver".
That went right over my head (I really suck at debating).
When Mr Harper finally got his turn he started off by pointing out that it's pretty hard to have a secret meeting with the media.
It got a good laugh from the audience.

I was kinda wishing Mr Harper would just ask: "Who's going to pay for it?" to all the grand plans of national minimum wages and day care (especially since I'm one of the ones who will be paying for it) and maybe hammer home the point of trying to keep money in Canadians' pockets so we can make our own decisions.

But, again, I suck at debating so maybe he did OK. I eagerly await commentary from Mr Campbell.


Sorry to disappoint, but I didn't watch a second of the debate, didn't follow it on Twitter, etc, either. I had something much more important to do: drinks with my lovely wife and some of her (many beautiful and charming) friends.

Debates can, as we have discussed before ...

   
JOHN-TURNER.jpg

  With one line, "You had an option, sir," Brian Mulroney knocked
        then Prime Minister John Turner out of office and politics.


          ... and I would have been happy to have heard that one (or more) such verbal KO punches had been thrown last night (at any of the "combatants") but ...

Beyond that faint hope I expected little and the media reports, this morning, suggest I wasn't disappointed.
 
Harper was basically calm and pointed....stable......

JT sent up the shiny birthday balloon of inspiration and hope, with just a little help from his very rich 1% friends......and lots and lots of your $$

Mulclair tried to sound calm and stable, constantly pointing out how good of a job he did when he was in QC politics, but still came across as a used car salesman, with your money of course....

:2c:
 
Here, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Ottawa Citizen are the opinions of three observers:

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/highlights-and-lowlights-from-the-second-debate
Ottawa-Citizen-Logo-160x90.jpg

Three pundits pronounce: Highs and lows from the economy debate

OTTAWA CITIZEN

Published on: September 17, 2015

Citizen columnist Mark Sutcliffe, McGill economics professor (and Citizen columnist) William Watson, and acting Citizen editorial pages editor James Gordon weigh in on the second federal leaders’ debate Thursday night.

Mark Sutcliffe

1) Who had the strongest performance overall and why?

Only one participant in the debate delivered a sharp, succinct and consistent message that resonated with viewers – and that was the timer’s bell. Beyond that, Tom Mulcair had the best night of the three leaders. It was a marked improvement over the first televised debate, in which he seemed reticent and uncomfortable. Mulcair delivered several good lines in attacking both Justin Trudeau and Stephen Harper. Compared to Trudeau, who sounded rushed and rehearsed and occasionally out of breath (like he was still paddling down the Bow River), Mulcair seemed calmer and more reasonable – much more comfortable in his own skin than in August.

2) What or who was the biggest surprise to you?

Given that the economy is his strong suit, Harper did not engage very much. He got his points across and defended well against most attacks, but he generally ceded the floor to Mulcair and Trudeau to fight each other over the voters who want change. The format certainly didn’t help. It was billed as a way of taking the leaders off their talking points, but it did nothing of the sort. Many of the questions just set up rehearsed lines and too many times two or three leaders were talking at the same time and no one intervened. It left all three leaders looking impolite, overzealous and even childish. Oh, and “old-stock Canadians” – that was weird.

3) What did you think was the strongest or weakest moment for any of the leaders?

Trudeau had a few good lines positioning himself against the other two leaders and he continues to make his plan to run deficits sound credible. But Mulcair had the best moment, advising Trudeau that when his advisers give him two different positions, he has to pick one of them, not repeat them both.

4) Was there enough here to cause some separation in a very tight race? Do you believe anyone will pull ahead or fall behind as a result of the debate?

No leader won or lost, so the debate will likely reinforce existing opinions. But the longer there is no clear frontrunner, the better it is for Harper. When you’re the 10-year incumbent, it’s more about surviving than winning. And the more the anti-Conservative herd remains divided between the other two parties, the higher his chances. We aren’t even close to hearing the final bell in this campaign.

William Watson

1) Who had the strongest performance overall and why?

There are at least three ways to judge performance: how good are the candidates’ platforms, how well did they present them, and did they beat expectations? On my card, Harper wins on all three. Mulcair and Trudeau made weaker cases well, if overly repetitively. Pundits say expectations are key, but non-pundits are probably more interested in how much sense a candidate makes, period. Expectations for Harper were high, given that it’s his field, both by training and because he’s been prime minister for nine years. I thought he more than met expectations and, beyond that, was calm, sensible, measured, plausible and realistic – just the kind of person you’d want handling matters in, as he said (maybe 17 times), an unsettled world. His argument that: we don’t like deficits, we ran a deficit because of the crisis, we said we’d get rid of it and that’s what we did, is persuasive. At times Mulcair and Trudeau traded barbs as if it were Question Period. Reminding people of Question Period is a bad strategy.

2) What or who was the biggest surprise to you?

Jeb Bush saying he’d raise the GST. Oh, sorry. Debate fatigue. Mulcair blaming Harper for not getting a single kilometre of pipeline built to tidewater. Zero daycare spaces and zero pipeline kilometres (though also zero deficit, I guess). As Mulcair explained the NDP’s position, it seemed pretty strongly against natural resource exports. What would have gone through the pipelines he wanted built?

3) What did you think was the strongest or weakest moment for any of the leaders? (Choose one, and just one leader, please)

Mulcair skating furiously on the cost of carbon pricing. It’s got to cost something. If it doesn’t, it doesn’t force people off carbon. Even the moderator said he saw skating. The moderator had all the other weakest moments. Letting them talk over each other does no one any good. And his lame follow-up questions in the second half of the debate let them resort to set pieces. (Does anyone in Canada still not know Mulcair is one of 10 children?) The contrast with the Republican debate the night before was not flattering. Who would have thought a panel of Americans, even one including Donald Trump, could come off as more polite and reasonable than Canadians?

4) Was there enough here to cause some separation in a very tight race? Do you believe anyone will pull ahead or fall behind as a result of the debate?

It reflects my own biases but I’d say Harper and Trudeau helped themselves, Mulcair not so much. His grinning self-satisfaction may begin to grate on voters currently trying him out. And he took a couple of jabs at “Justin,” as he disrespectfully called Trudeau, whose nastiness owes more to Dick Nixon than Jack Layton (for instance, “the shell company you set up for your speaking fees”). Seventy per cent of voters may want change, as Peter Mansbridge kept saying during his interviews with the leaders, but in a close election, all Harper has to do is get that down to 65 per cent. If there really is such a thing as an undecided voter and if any were watching last night, some may well have come away thinking maybe Harper isn’t so bad, after all.

James Gordon

1) Who had the strongest performance overall and why?

I’m temped to call this a tie between the prime minister and Tom Mulcair, but really, it’s a win for the latter. Several of the many, many (many many many) polls thus far have suggested the Conservatives have very little room to grow their vote share, and I think the ♫ Harperman Demographic ♪ was probably tuning in to weigh its options. Whereas Justin Trudeau flailed around a bit while trying to catch his breath, Mulcair delivered his message in the calm, confident way many associate with fitness to serve as prime minister (bonus: he stopped doing that weird fake smile thing).

DING!

2) What or who was the biggest surprise to you?

Wow, OK, I was just getting going there but I guess we’re moving on.

The biggest surprise was probably all of the leaders’ incoherence on the topic of budget deficits and surpluses, given how much they love to talk about them. Over here, we have Trudeau sounding the alarm over Canadians’ high indebtedness, and in the next breath suggesting it makes sense for the government to borrow more because interest rates are at historic lows (why do you think we’re doing it, sir?!). And over here, we have Harper proudly pointing out that his government posted deficits to get us through a time of global economic uncertainty and then turning right around and saying it would be foolish to post a deficit at this time of global economic uncertainty. Meanwhile, we hear nary a word about fixing perhaps the biggest problem facing our economy: Canada’s atrocious productivity levels and growth. Nice talking points though.

DING!

3) What did you think was the strongest or weakest moment for any of the leaders?

Um, waitwhat, what was I talking about? Oh, strongest or weakest moment.

Mulcair probably had both. A day after observers raised some serious questions about how the NDP costed its platform, he refused to get anywhere near a real answer when asked repeatedly how much a proposed cap-and-trade plan would cost. He bounced back later though, crushing Trudeau on deficit flip-flopping.

DING!

4) Was there enough here to cause some separation in a very tight race? Do you believe anyone will pull ahead or fall behind as a result of the debate?

YEAAARGGHHH! LET ME TALK!

I’ve been pretty clear about my feelings on how much any single debate can do, so I’ll stick with “not really.” Trudeau gained some ground after a fairly strong performance in the first debate, only to see his numbers slide back a little bit over the past week or so. I imagine Mulcair will get a bit of a bump out of this one too, but when you’re mired in The Longest Election Campaign in History™, there’s plenty of time for surprises that, like much of the economy itself, are completely out of the leaders’ control.

DING!


I think I agree with Prof Watson: our own biases get in the way when doing this sort of analysis.
 
No one really stood out to me last night, though I thought Trudeau's performance had improved quite a bit from the last debate. Harper was smooth and confident as usual, he's just far more polished than the other two.

Harper DID make what I thought might turn out to be a significant gaffe when he referred to "old stock Canadians" while discussing the refugee situation. There were already memes going around last night of the "lying shithead" incident re-labeled "old stock Canadian." Haven't seen much on the mainstream media on that yet, aside from a few blurbs, but they're always slow on the uptake. My Facebook feed was full of comments about it this morning, as was Twitter.

Aside from the immediate impact, the comment underlines how Harper views Canada. What is an "old stock Canadian" exactly? Stock would seem to suggest an ethnic identity, so would descendants of Chinese railroad workers in the 1870s count (as one meme has asked)? Is he referring to primarily Scottish-English Canadians?

It was definitely a slip, but given Harper's enthusiasm for red coats, the Queen and Empire and all that it certainly fits.
 
Kilo_302 said:
No one really stood out to me last night, though I thought Trudeau's performance had improved quite a bit from the last debate ...


John Ivison, on the other hand, says that Thomas Mulcair was the clear winnder in this article which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the National Post:

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/john-ivison-a-little-angry-tom-goes-a-long-way-as-mulcair-outpoints-rivals
slideNationalPost_03-logo.png

A little Angry Tom goes a long way as Mulcair outpoints rivals

John Ivison | September 18, 2015

It’s a unanimous decision — or it should be. Tom Mulcair, the NDP leader, won Thursday’s election debate rumble on points. There was no knock out blow but across a range of measures, Mulcair bossed the debate. Here’s a breakdown of how he scored:

LANDING HARD AND CLEAR PUNCHES

Thomas Mulcair bashed both his rivals all evening. “Mr. Harper put all his eggs in one basket and then dropped the basket,” he said of the Conservative government’s handling of the economy.

He pointed out that Trudeau’s first vote in the House of Commons was for Conservatives’ corporate tax “giveaway.”

“Jack Layton and I fought that every single step of the way.”

He said that one of Trudeau’s last votes in the House was to support the Conservative Party’s anti-terror legislation, “which seriously compromises the rights and freedoms of Canadians.”

He boxed the Liberal leader’s ears over his comments where he called small business owners tax cheats. “I find that offensive,” Mulcair said.

Trudeau tried to land blows on Harper over the refugee crisis but it was Mulcair who drew blood when he responded to the Conservative leader’s accusation that the Liberals and NDP would open Canada’s borders to “hundreds of thousands” of refugees, with no regard to security. “That is undignified – Mr. Harper is fearmongering on the backs of people who need help most,” he chided.

Harper landed some jabs on both his rivals when he talked about the job killing potential of hiking payroll taxes. But – surprise, surprise – the Conservative leader’s attacks were predictable and lacked flair.

EFFECTIVE AGGRESSION

Angry Tom burst out of his suit when pushed on his cap and trade policy, which was set to raise $20-billion for the federal government under the NDP’s platform in 2011.

“This cap and trade system has no such bill and you know it,” he raged at the moderator, Globe and Mail editor David Walmsley. Mulcair smash.

By and large though, the NDP leader was controlled and effective. He likely re-assured many people who worry a vote for the NDP means a future of kale, hemp and Birkenstocks.

Trudeau floated like a butterfly but the sting was missing. His arguments made sense — “Interest rates are low, borrowing has never been cheaper, debt to GDP levels are falling but the economy has been flat for 10 years — if this isn’t the time to invest, when is?”

The improvement in his performance in recent months is marked. He has proven wrong the critics who believed he is too dumb to master the economic file.

But he sounded like a welterweight at a heavyweight bout.

Even his best lines — on congestion to Harper: “you’ve been stuck in a motorcade for the last 10 years” — bounced off.

PLAYING DEFENCE

Mulcair bobbed and weaved to good effect. When Trudeau attacked the NDP plan on a federal minimum wage, on the basis that it wouldn’t help 99% of workers, Mulcair leaned into the camera and told the audience that the Liberals voted for the measure. “Canadians have a right to know that.”

RING GENERALSHIP

Mulcair won the lottery by getting the middle podium and then proceeded to stick to the radical middle for the rest of the evening; equidistant from Justin Trudeau, “who is hitting the panic button” and Stephen Harper, “who is hitting the snooze button” on the economy.

When he turned to Trudeau and ridiculed him for criticizing Harper’s deficits, just as he promised his own — “Justin — when your advisors tell you two things that are contradictory, pick one, you can’t say both” — it was clear the NDP leader has now become the main challenger to Harper’s crown.

National Post


So, Mr Ivison says that "The improvement in his (Trudeau's) performance in recent months is marked. He has proven wrong the critics who believed he is too dumb to master the economic file." But I wonder: did he "master" the economic file? Or did he, as a high school drama teacher should be able to do, just memorize Gerald Butt's script?
 
Kilo_302 said:
...
Harper DID make what I thought might turn out to be a significant gaffe when he referred to "old stock Canadians" while discussing the refugee situation. There were already memes going around last night of the "lying shithead" incident re-labeled "old stock Canadian." Haven't seen much on the mainstream media on that yet, aside from a few blurbs, but they're always slow on the uptake. My Facebook feed was full of comments about it this morning, as was Twitter.

Aside from the immediate impact, the comment underlines how Harper views Canada. What is an "old stock Canadian" exactly? Stock would seem to suggest an ethnic identity, so would descendants of Chinese railroad workers in the 1870s count (as one meme has asked)? Is he referring to primarily Scottish-English Canadians?

It was definitely a slip, but given Harper's enthusiasm for red coats, the Queen and Empire and all that it certainly fits.


I think there are two kinds of "new Canadians:"

    1. Those who will be mightily offended at those remarks. I suspect we will find those people concentrated in a few large urban centres and I am guessing that most of them were not ever thinking of
        voting for Prime Minister Harper's Conservatives anyway; and

    2. Those, somewhat more successful and better integrated "ethnics" who are more affluent and live in suburbs and who really want their kids and grandkids to be "old stock Canadians." I suspect that those people
        already agreed with the Conservatives' stand on refugee health care; they "waited in the "queue" and they expect everyone else to do the same.
 
One take on last night's debate: Is it just me or Mulcair's forced smiles on camera at both debates so far were just plain creepy?
:blotto:

Reuters


Canadian PM, on campaign offensive, bashes rivals over economy
Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:56pm EDT

By David Ljunggren and Randall Palmer

OTTAWA (Reuters) - Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper, taking the offensive after an election campaign marred by setbacks and missteps, told a televised debate on Thursday that his rivals' plans for increased taxes and deficits would badly damage the economy.

With polls showing a tight three-way race ahead of the Oct. 19 vote, Harper needs to break away from his two center-left opponents if his Conservatives are to extend their near 10-year term in office.

In contrast to debates in past elections, where Harper was the main target, his rivals spent as much time attacking each other as they did taking jabs at the prime minister.

(...SNIPPED)
 
So will the debate have an effect?  I doubt it.  Nothing new was presented and to be honest I think there were some missed opportunities.  We'll see what the polling data says, but I suspect that if the conservatives don't pull ahead after this week (good news week for them), then I think that the momentum for change will start to grow and will benefit the other two parties.
 
Kilo_302 said:
Harper DID make what I thought might turn out to be a significant gaffe when he referred to "old stock Canadians" while discussing the refugee situation. There were already memes going around last night of the "lying shithead" incident re-labeled "old stock Canadian." Haven't seen much on the mainstream media on that yet, aside from a few blurbs, but they're always slow on the uptake. My Facebook feed was full of comments about it this morning, as was Twitter.


My first association was to Jacques Parizeau's "money and the ethnic vote" statement.  It was like an Anglo version of "pure laine".

This morning, I found this interesting commentary on pure laine in Wikipedia:
The French term pure laine literally meaning pure wool (and often interpreted as true blue or dyed-in-the-wool) refers to those whose ancestry is exclusively French-Canadian. Another similar term is de souche (roughly in English, old stock).
 
Remius said:
So will the debate have an effect?  I doubt it.  Nothing new was presented and to be honest I think there were some missed opportunities.  We'll see what the polling data says, but I suspect that if the conservatives don't pull ahead after this week (good news week for them), then I think that the momentum for change will start to grow and will benefit the other two parties.

I agree with your first assertion.

I'm not so sure. My guess is that the key period is 8-18 Oct, which includes the Thanksgiving long weekend and the last week of the campaign. I'm sure the CPC doesn't want to fall (farther?) behind in this week, but I'm not sure that just staying locked together in a very tight three-way race isn't good enough, for the moment.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
I think there are two kinds of "new Canadians:"

    1. Those who will be mightily offended at those remarks. I suspect we will find those people concentrated in a few large urban centres and I am guessing that most of them were not ever thinking of voting for Prime Minister Harper's Conservatives anyway; and

    2. Those, somewhat more successful and better integrated "ethnics" who are more affluent and live in suburbs and who really want their kids and grandkids to be "old stock Canadians." I suspect that those people already agreed with the Conservatives' stand on refugee health care; they "waited in the "queue" and they expect everyone else to do the same.
I'm OK being an "new" Canadian by your definition, and far closer to an Article 2 New Canadian than Article 1  ;D

For those looking for signs of "us vs. them", though, the PM's comments confirm that in his world view, there is more than one kind of Canadian.

The lovers will say, "so what - we're all Canadians, full stop, right?"  :cdn:

The haters will say, "if many object to being (insert ethnic group here)-hyphenated-Canadian, who's the PM to create his own pigeon holes, and why?".  :Tin-Foil-Hat:
 
>Beyond that it's just a mean spirited hatchet job ... but then, Ms Mallick really defines Harper Hater™, doesn't she?

I enjoyed reading it.

    Khitan General: Wrong! Conan, what is best in life?
    Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women!
 
>It's not like the Conservatives haven't been selling us this EXACT message in some form since 2008!

Sure.  But the 2008 crisis was exactly the kind that Keynesians claim "increased government spending is a magic bullet for".
 
Brad Sallows said:
>It's not like the Conservatives haven't been selling us this EXACT message in some form since 2008!

Sure.  But the 2008 crisis was exactly the kind that Keynesians claim "increased government spending is a magic bullet for".


Actually, I think, 1929 was the "crisis for which Keynesian economics was designed." Aggregate demand* was Meynard Keynes watchword and I'm still not persuaded that, in either the Canada or the USA, aggregate demand ever fell low enough to merit the sort of massive stimulus that was applied. I agree with Bernanke and Paulson that emergency action was necessary to restore credit, but I think the drop in demand required far less reaction than was applied.

I think there is a role for government in the application of a steady level of public spending on the right sorts of (productive) infrastructure, spending which can be, quickly but temporarily, "ramped up" when aggregate demand slows too much and "ramped down" again, equally quickly, when demand picks up in the normal course of economic cycles.

_____
*Aggregate Demand (AD) = C + I + G + (X-M) where: C = Consumers' expenditures on goods and services. I = Investment spending by companies on capital goods. G = Government expenditures on publicly provided goods and services. X = Exports of goods and services. M = Imports of goods and services.

 
This is what I was able to find (on CBC.ca):

"The fact of the matter is we have not taken away health care from immigrants and refugees ... The only place we have refused it is for bogus refugee claimants who have been refused and turned down, we do not offer them a better health care plan than the ordinary Canadian can receive," Harper said during the debate.

"I think that's something that both new and existing and old-stock Canadians can agree with."

I read it as an acknowledgement that while people who followed the rules to become Canadians recently might feel differently on any given issue than Canadians whose ancestry goes back a few generations, on this particular issue there is a concensus favouring fair-but-firm.

I also see how some people could choose to interpret it as some sort of "dog-whistle" - as it turns out, many flavours of dog-whistle; an amazing amount of competing information in a couple of words.  If you want "old stock" to mean "white", or "white and Anglo-Saxon", or anything else, then that's what it means to you.
 
Perhaps readers will not be surprised, given the source, but this article, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Calgary Sun, says that M Trudeau lost the debate last night:

http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/09/17/justin-trudeau-the-big-loser-in-debate
img_calgarysun1.png

Justin Trudeau the big loser in debate

BY ANTHONY FUREY, POSTMEDIA NETWORK

UPDATED: FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 18, 2015

TORONTO - If Canadians had any doubt that the election has become a choice between Stephen Harper and Tom Mulcair, Wednesday’s leaders debate confirmed it.

Liberal leader Justin Trudeau performed so poorly, that – after the halfway mark – he appeared more like an irritant getting in the way of two adults having a conversation than a productive contributor to the conversation.

One of his closing barbs against the Conservative and NDP leaders was “their lack of ambition for our country.” Really?

When asked what the role of the federal government should be, he said to “respond to the needs Canadians have to improve their quality of life.” But that’s fluff. It doesn’t answer the question or say anything of substance.

He also told the biggest lie of the debate: He called out Harper for cutting health care to refugees. But that never happened. (They eliminated eye and dental care for newcomers while eliminating most care for rejected claimants.)

Trudeau’s high school debating tactics hit their lowest when he accused Harper of promoting “fear of others.”

Mulcair meanwhile performed far better than last time, appearing more relaxed and in control. When he opposed Harper he did from a sensible position — like how he acknowledged the importance of security checks for refugees, but wants the government to move faster on processing.

He was also comfortable with the numbers, having wisely released his party’s fiscal framework the day before the debate.

However because Mulcair’s straddling a delicate divide of trying to be centrist but still not alienating his left-wing base, he failed to differentiate himself as belonging to any political camp. This creates voter confusion.

But if you want clear political lines drawn in the sand, Harper is your man.

The first hour of the debate was not so good. Harper spent the time defending his niche credits and, in particular, the indefensible vote-buying pledge that is the home renovation tax credit.

Then he touted the need for government to make “specific investments” in the economy. The government picking winners and losers is a big no-no for true fiscal conservatives.

Plus, he only glossed over his work on trade deals — his best long-term economic project. He should brag about it and commit to do more as the other parties don’t have a leg to stand on with this issue. Although he did point out, towards the end, that Canada will soon have access to over half the world’s GDP.

Then everything changed. Responding to Trudeau’s appeal for more spending, Harper knocked it out of the park by saying, “We don’t measure our level of optimism through our level of spending.”

It was the strongest line of the night, deflating all that rhetoric Trudeau has vented over the months portraying Harper as uncaring and nasty.

It showed that real life is about making tough choices, something Trudeau doesn’t seem to appreciate.

(P.S. The worst moment of the debate was when David Walmsley, the moderator and Globe & Mail editor-in-chief, began a question by editorializing: “Mr. Harper, you’re going to need some new ideas.” The voters deserved better.)


Since I didn't see the debate I have no opinion. But other observes do.
 
Brad Sallows said:
This is what I was able to find (on CBC.ca):

"The fact of the matter is we have not taken away health care from immigrants and refugees ... The only place we have refused it is for bogus refugee claimants who have been refused and turned down, we do not offer them a better health care plan than the ordinary Canadian can receive," Harper said during the debate.

"I think that's something that both new and existing and old-stock Canadians can agree with."

I read it as an acknowledgement that while people who followed the rules to become Canadians recently might feel differently on any given issue than Canadians whose ancestry goes back a few generations, on this particular issue there is a concensus favouring fair-but-firm.

I also see how some people could choose to interpret it as some sort of "dog-whistle" - as it turns out, many flavours of dog-whistle; an amazing amount of competing information in a couple of words.  If you want "old stock" to mean "white", or "white and Anglo-Saxon", or anything else, then that's what it means to you.


Very true, and who you are might colour your opinion (pun intended), as Globe and Mail reporter Tu Thanh Ha points out in this article which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from that newspaper:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/intentional-or-a-slip-old-stock-canadians-is-always-a-message-to-the-others/article26424488/
gam-masthead.png

Intentional or a slip, ‘Old-stock Canadians’ is always a message to the Others

TU THANH HA
The Globe and Mail

Published Friday, Sep. 18, 2015

He was supposed to be the guy who would be measured with his words, the one who had to stay above the fray.

Stephen Harper’s use of the expression “old-stock Canadians” added an odd twist to Thursday’s leaders’ debate, clouding his attempts at being statesman-like.

Detractors talked about dog whistling. Supporters Googled past occasions when Liberals said the same thing. And people whose forebears didn’t land in Canada until the 20th century just felt awkward or annoyed.

“Old stock” is not a common utterance in current Canadian public discourse but veterans of Quebec’s tumultuous politics of the 1990s will remember the words and the debate – that is how the expression “ Québécois de souche” was usually translated into English.

Quebec politicians struggled to find acceptable ways to describe the descendants of the French-speaking pioneers of the 17th century.

As inclusive as they tried to be, the separatist leaders could not avoid talking about the newcomers and the others because much of the debate stemmed from Quebec’s distinctive history and demographics.

Jacques Parizeau, no fan of political correctness, felt that there was nothing wrong with pointing out statistical realities, like the fact that non-francophones wouldn’t vote for his party.

We know how badly that ended, one night in the fall of 1995, when he was supposed to calm the crowd but instead gave way to his anger.

Liberals at the time were not immune to racial gaffes either.

I have written in the past about how, that same year, while I was chatting with the columnist Chantal Hébert at a reception in Ottawa, then-prime minister, Jean Chrétien, walked by and asked, with a grin: “Are you trying to solve China’s problems?”

There was no ill will on his part. Though obviously, since Chantal isn’t Chinese, he didn’t see me foremost as a member of the press corps, but someone with yellow skin.

It depends on the context, of course. Any newcomer knows that when they are asked “Where are you from?” the question could either be queried out of friendly curiosity or uttered with animosity and resentment.

Look for example at the time Justin Trudeau also used the expression “old stock.”

It was in 2007, in an interview with the community weekly Nouvelles Parc-Extension News, where he explained that he opposed Mr. Harper’s motion to recognize that “the Québécois” form a nation. He asked if everyone in Quebec was part of that nation or whether it was just for the “old stock.”

His words were controversial at the time because he opposed the motion, not because of the way he described a segment of the Quebec population. Those who weren’t “old-stock” didn’t mind it, since he was speaking up for them.

Was Mr. Harper deliberately sending a message?

Or, even if it was an off-the-cuff choice of words, was it a slip that revealed the speaker’s hidden fear of the Other?

It certainly reminded some viewers that they were the Other. Their anger was genuine, not a pearl-clutching act.

“I couldn’t even sleep last night I was so pissed [off],” one friend, a Canadian of Jamaican origin, said.

Mr. Harper’s controversial remark came after he was asked about denying health care for refugees.

“The only time we’ve removed it is where we have clearly bogus refugee claimants who have been refused and turned down. We do not offer them a better health care plan than the ordinary Canadian can receive,” he said.

“I think that’s something that most new and existing and, and, old-stock Canadians agree with.”

Lost in the controversy is the fact that Mr. Harper’s comment about health-care coverage was inaccurate. The cut affected not only rejected refugee claimants but also claimants from what the government designates as “safe countries.”

One can hear, watching that video clip again, that Mr. Harper hesitates and searches for words: “…and, and, old-stock Canadians.”

But the essence of it was that Mr. Harper was trying to say that even newcomers would agree with him.

That was always the way the Conservatives made their pitch to minority voters – by drawing a line between the law-abiding ones, whose social values also happened to be conservative, and the others, those who were portrayed as queue-jumping terrorist-sympathizing bogus asylum seekers.

It was about us and the others, even if the line wasn’t meant to be drawn along racial lines.

But the reaction was predictable because the Conservatives had been pressing that button before. By trying to ban the niqab from citizenship ceremonies while fundraising on the issue. By raising fears about terrorism. By retaining Lynton Crosby, an operative associated with emotionally-charged campaigning tactics in Australia and Britain.

They had played that game before, and those who already didn’t like the Conservatives weren’t going to give them the benefit of the doubt.


The last sentence is the crux of it all: "those who already didn’t like the Conservatives weren’t going to give them the benefit of the doubt." Conversely, I suppose, those who already did like the Conservatives will think it's a non-issue.
 
>I'm still not persuaded that, in either the Canada or the USA, aggregate demand ever fell low enough to merit the sort of massive stimulus that was applied

Maybe; but, while aggregate demand may not have been low enough, political pressure was strong enough.  The opposition forced the government to agree to a massive spending program, but could not force the government to accept the political damage (deficits) without mitigation (advertising).

Chalk it up as another example: some of the grudges people hold against the actions of Harper and his government were consequences of pressure applied by some of those people.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
Perhaps readers will not be surprised, given the source, but this article, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Calgary Sun, says that M Trudeau lost the debate last night:

http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/09/17/justin-trudeau-the-big-loser-in-debate

Since I didn't see the debate I have no opinion. But other observes do.


Further to this, Campbell Clark, writing in the Globe and Mail provides his analysis and concludes that "Mr. Mulcair, a sharp debater, scored most of his points against Mr. Trudeau on the volley, arguing that Mr. Trudeau used to favour balanced budgets, just a few months ago. “When your advisers tell you one thing and another that’s totally contradictory, pick one,” he said ... [and] ... Mr. Trudeau probably overplayed his hand. He pushed at the same button throughout much of the debate. He turned a question on a possible housing bubble into an issue of incomes, and then started talking about stimulus spending and economic growth again."
 
>The last sentence is the crux of it all: "those who already didn’t like the Conservatives weren’t going to give them the benefit of the doubt." Conversely, I suppose, those who already did like the Conservatives will think it's a non-issue.

Yep.  And since my mother is an immigrant, people who think it's all about them because they have brown skin can go fu<k themselves.
 
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