Election 2015

[Altair]

The "someone" who thinks the ABC campaign will be ineffective is me.

I'm reminded of Henry Kissinger's quip about the reason academic debates are so bitter is because the stakes are so low ...

I don't know if the current goings on in world markets are a flash crash; a needed and forecasted (two weeks ago) market correction or the warning signs of another great depression, but I suspect that they (including today's sharp gains) will focus politicians' and, more importantly, voters' minds on economics.

First see my earlier comments about sailing into a fiscal headwind, and Brad Sallows' comments about the state of the economy and then ask yourself: is anyone going to extend benefits (which some (many?) Canadians already consider sufficient, if not actually generous) for one small group of Canadians? I really don't give a flying you know what about what M Trudeau promises; Liberals, like Conservatives, promise whatever and deliver whatever else. My favourite was M Trudeau's papa who campaigned hard against Mr Stanfield's proposals for wage and price controls and then, as soon as he was elected, introduced them. If, and it's a BIG IF, right now, we slide back into recession then I expect that Stephen Harper, if he is reelected - another BIG IF, will forget all about the sanctity of balanced budgets, and M Mulcair, if he's elected, supported by M Trudeau or not, will forget about most of his spending promises, too.

I'm going to repeat what I said earlier, some veterans, those serving before 2006, got screwed. Some of them were actually in combat when the very generous wound pension scheme under which they enrolled was changed. That was immoral, to be charitable. But it's done and it was done with all party support, and, despite nonsense like ABC, most (what: 97.5%? 98? even 99% ?) of Canadians don't care).

I would sympathize with ABC if its spokesman was a Canadian soldier who enrolled in, say, the 1990s and who was grievously wounded in Afghanistan: (s)he could make a compelling case from a wheelchair. Why aren't they out there? Do they, perhaps, consider ABC to be "clowns," as the other thread's original title suggested? Or would they be ashamed to be associated with the ABC's public face? I don't know and, frankly, I don't care, because, like those academic disputes, I think the states are incredibly low . I sympathize with those veterans who enrolled before 2006 and did get screwed by the New Veterans' Charter, and I wish that a government, of whatever political stripe, would amend the legislation to "grandfather" them: allow them to use the old, very generous rules. But:

                                               

Instead of a grandfather clause, how about a return to the old system that some vets are fighting in court to have returned?

Like the plan the liberals plan on doing.

 

[George Wallace]

Instead of a grandfather clause, how about a return to the old system that some vets are fighting in court to have returned?

Like the plan the liberals plan on doing.

So, you believe that the Liberals will undo what they created.  Hmmmm?  Interesting.  In the end, it will always boil down to money. 

 

[Altair]

So, you believe that the Liberals will undo what they created.  Hmmmm?  Interesting.  In the end, it will always boil down to money.

The JustinTrudeau liberals are two leaders and 9 years removed from  the Paul Martin liberals. I don't believe Justin trudeau owes anything to the paul martin liberals and I think the only thing they really have in common is that can both say they were the leaders of the federal liberal party.

Holding trudeau responsible for the NVC would be like holding harper responsible for the purchase of the LSVW.


http://thechronicleherald.ca/federal-election-2015/1307044-federal-liberals-offer-goodie-basket-to-veterans

On Monday, Trudeau promised to re-establish a lifetime pension as an option for injured veterans. It would happen during the 2015-16 fiscal year.

The Liberal platform also promises to reopen nine Veterans Affairs Canada offices that were closed by the Harper government, including one in Sydney, and hire 400 new front-line staff.

A Liberal government would also increase the veteran survivor’s pension amount from 50 per cent to 70 per cent, spend $25 million to expand access to the permanent impairment allowance, increase the earnings loss benefit to 90 per cent of a veteran’s pre-release salary and, at a cost of $80 million per year, create a new education benefit that would provide full support for up to four years at a post-secondary institution.

If elected, Trudeau said, his government would also spend $100 million per year to expand support for families of veterans and has agreed to implement all the auditor general’s recommendations for delivery of mental health care to former members of the military.

4 years of post secondary would be nice. Very nice. I've gone to many discussion groups on how to attract people to the military and said just that. Give people something tangible for their service that they can use at the end of their service and they will be far more likely to join.

 

[George Wallace]

The JustinTrudeau liberals are two leaders and 9 years removed from  the Paul Martin liberals. I don't believe Justin trudeau owes anything to the paul martin liberals and I think the only thing they really have in common is that can both say they were the leaders of the federal liberal party.

Holding trudeau responsible for the NVC would be like holding harper responsible for the purchase of the LSVW.

I am sure that the Leopard hasn't changed its' spots. 

But I will stick by my comment, that in the end, it will all boil down to money; money that may or may not be there.

 

[ModlrMike]

Standing on the mound of dirt beside the hole you dug is not occupying the moral high ground.

 

[Rocky Mountains]

As strange as it sounds, I've said this in other threads: reserve restructuring has a better chance of happening under the NDP.  They'll increase the reserves, cut or amalgamate the regular force infantry battalions (something like two from three per), realign some capital projects, focus on supporting humanitarian aid and Dom ops.  Less bullets, more bodies and only keep SF as anything with any real teeth.

The NDP are deep down  pacifist.  There is pretty close to 100 % chance the defence budget will be sacrificed so there will be heavily subsidized daycare and that's the way their supporters want it.  Incidentally most provinces already heavily subsidize daycare so it will essentially be simply a transfer of expenditure from the provinces to the feds.

 

[Rocky Mountains]

Holding trudeau responsible for the NVC would be like holding harper responsible for the purchase of the LSVW.

But the Conservative Party only started in 2003.  The Progressive Conservative Party was a very junior partner.  The LSVW was from 1993.  The only way to judge future action by the Liberals is to look at the past.  Liberal Party election promises haven't had a great history of coming true.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Instead of a grandfather clause, how about a return to the old system that some vets are fighting in court to have returned?

Like the plan the liberals plan on doing.

It will be hideously expensive, which is why it will not happen.

I repeat, no one with the brains the gods gave to green peppers should believe M Trudeau's promises; nor Prime Minister Harper's, nor M Mulciar's. When whoever arrives in the Langevin Block and gets the briefs from the Clerk of the Privy Council and the team from the Finance Department the waste baskets in the PMO and all cabinet ministers' offices will be overflowing with torn up promises.

 

[Occam]

The "someone" who thinks the ABC campaign will be ineffective is me.

You were one who said that, but by no means the only one and I didn't have anyone in particular in mind when I wrote that.  FWIW, I respect your opinion more because of the manner in which you present it.

I would sympathize with ABC if its spokesman was a Canadian soldier who enrolled in, say, the 1990s and who was grievously wounded in Afghanistan: (s)he could make a compelling case from a wheelchair. Why aren't they out there? Do they, perhaps, consider ABC to be "clowns," as the other thread's original title suggested? Or would they be ashamed to be associated with the ABC's public face? I don't know and, frankly, I don't care, because, like those academic disputes, I think the states are incredibly low . I sympathize with those veterans who enrolled before 2006 and did get screwed by the New Veterans' Charter, and I wish that a government, of whatever political stripe, would amend the legislation to "grandfather" them: allow them to use the old, very generous rules.

There are some members of the ABC campaign who are in that demographic; I personally don't know if they've been asked to be spokespersons.

I would agree that the public GAFF on military matters is probably around the the figures you've estimated.  I'd like to think their opinion on veterans is somewhat more favourable.  That's certainly the impression I get when reading the "comments" sections to articles dealing with veterans in newspapers/websites of all political leanings, as well as support at Remembrance Day ceremonies, etc.  I'm not naive enough to think veterans are at the forefront of the public's mind, but I don't think we're dead last either.

 

[Altair]

But the Conservative Party only started in 2003.  The Progressive Conservative Party was a very junior partner.  The LSVW was from 1993.  The only way to judge future action by the Liberals is to look at the past.  Liberal Party election promises haven't had a great history of coming true.

How far in the past do we go? 10 years? 20? 50? 100?

I judge current party leaders and their promises in the present, as compared to other party leaders and their promises in the present. I don't believe the sins of previous leaders of any party should reflect on the current leaders. Same way I wont judge the person who replaces harper for the sins of harpers government. Granted, if the change is just the leader and not the team, I take that into account as well (Wynne) but i don't believe that to be the case with JT liberals. There has been two leaders, and 9 years from the time Paul Martin thought it would be a great idea to give the shaft to the veterans.

 

[Altair]

It will be hideously expensive, which is why it will not happen.

I repeat, no one with the brains the gods gave to green peppers should believe M Trudeau's promises; nor Prime Minister Harper's, nor M Mulciar's. When whoever arrives in the Langevin Block and gets the briefs from the Clerk of the Privy Council and the team from the Finance Department the waste baskets in the PMO and all cabinet ministers' offices will be overflowing with torn up promises.

Well, if it helps, Justin Trudeau has said he will lay out how he plans to pay for the increased spending on veterans in the future. So we can chew on this now and then praise or criticize how affordable it would be in the future.

That said, and I'm horribly biased, when it comes to veterans, especially those wounded in combat, it shouldn't be a matter of how much it costs the treasury, it should be how much the treasury owes these brave men and women who have given life and limb for Canada.

 

[Remius]

How far in the past do we go? 10 years? 20? 50? 100?

As far back as needed to prove one's point.

 

[jollyjacktar]

How far in the past do we go? 10 years? 20? 50? 100?

I judge current party leaders and their promises in the present, as compared to other party leaders and their promises in the present. I don't believe the sins of previous leaders of any party should reflect on the current leaders. Same way I wont judge the person who replaces harper for the sins of harpers government. Granted, if the change is just the leader and not the team, I take that into account as well (Wynne) but i don't believe that to be the case with JT liberals. There has been two leaders, and 9 years from the time Paul Martin thought it would be a great idea to give the shaft to the veterans.

Well, I for one, don't like, believe or trust the words of any of the players in this election.  Not one of them.

 

[Altair]

Well, I for one, don't like, believe or trust the words of any of the players in this election.  Not one of them.

Going to make going to the polls a little hard.

 

[Edward Campbell]

<Yawn> It's a tie, according to CTV News/Nanos:

    "Major parties locked in virtual tie: Nanos poll
      ...
      Here are the latest numbers, with the percentage-point change from the previous week in brackets:

    Nanos Weekly Ballot Tracking released Aug. 25, 2015

          Conservatives: 30.1 per cent (-1.7)
          Liberals: 29.9 per cent (+1.2)
          NDP: 29.1 per cent (+0.1)"

Wake me after Labour Day, please.

 

[Rocky Mountains]

it shouldn't be a matter of how much it costs the treasury, it should be how much the treasury owes these brave men and women who have given life and limb for Canada.

Yes it should.  Would it be fair to say that the injustices are few and far between?  Whenever I see one of the stories that is supposed to tug at my heartstrings, it involves some non-standard treatment that the medical establishment is apparently too stupid to see the benefit in.  I remember seeing another heartbreaker on television about a older lady who spent  over 20 years in the Forces and only got a $100 per month pension and couldn't get her PTSD recognized.  I was confused on that one but concluded she must have been a reservist who in all liklihood never left Canada.  While there is no doubt some injustice to veterans, there is a lot of good theatre on television.

 

[Remius]

I heard Mr. Fury on the radio and thought I would post his latest op ed.

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/08/22/real-conservatism-this-campaign-dont-count-on-it

This touches on the conundrum that faces true conservatives.  Partisans will just follow like the sheep of any of any other party, but I think that many true conservatives are feeling disaffected by the CPC.  Stephen Harper has distinguished himself as more centrist that some conservatives don't feel they have any real alternatives.  Some will vote libertarians and I suspect some might actually vote liberal but my gut feeling is that many more will either spoil their ballot or just stay home come election day.

I think that agree with him, that CPC are somewhat light on their policies this time around.

 

[Teager]

If your having trouble trusting the top 3 candidates why not give Earl Grey the cat from the Tuxedo Party a shot.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/08/25/cat-running-for-prime-minister_n_8038240.html

 

[Altair]

Yes it should.  Would it be fair to say that the injustices are few and far between?  Whenever I see one of the stories that is supposed to tug at my heartstrings, it involves some non-standard treatment that the medical establishment is apparently too stupid to see the benefit in.  I remember seeing another heartbreaker on television about a older lady who spent  over 20 years in the Forces and only got a $100 per month pension and couldn't get her PTSD recognized.  I was confused on that one but concluded she must have been a reservist who in all liklihood never left Canada.  While there is no doubt some injustice to veterans, there is a lot of good theatre on television.

There is some injustice ls to veterans,  including the NVC. A body part or disability shouldn't be a one time payment.

Vets who have legitimate injuries due to deployment should be taken care of by the goverment who decided to deploy them.

It shouldn't be a matter of its too expensive to properly take care of veterans.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Well, if it helps, Justin Trudeau has said he will lay out how he plans to pay for the increased spending on veterans in the future. So we can chew on this now and then praise or criticize how affordable it would be in the future.

That said, and I'm horribly biased, when it comes to veterans, especially those wounded in combat, it shouldn't be a matter of how much it costs the treasury, it should be how much the treasury owes these brave men and women who have given life and limb for Canada.