Dreams

[Elwood]

Thanks exsemjingo.

When I used the Mat. 17:3 and Lazarus example I wasn't regarding them as dreams, but replying to your quotation: "My Christianity says once someone is dead, they do not come back or communicate with the living." I didn't quote in the first place, so it's my bad.

You're right exsemjingo that God commanded Moses and Elijah, and Christ commanded Lazarus... it's not the dead who have the power to communicate with the living. I never thought of it this way. You're mind is a step ahead of mine. 

 

[SIG MITCH]

I always find it amusing when a guy named K(c)at stevens talks about religion...

 

[CL84]

I don't know how to do the quote thing, I'm sure it's easy but anyway I'll try to interpret the beginning dream you had. I'm interested in dreams as well. But this is all opinion, I'm no doctor.

"As a child my father wasn't around when I needed him, but during the time of my courtmartial ( in my first book) he came to me in a dream and told me I would be found not guilty."

Maybe your mind was able to predict that you would not be found guilty, based on the facts that were there. With that prediction, it comes to you in your unconcious state, because in your waking life you were refusing to accept the fact that you could be innocent.

I think maybe we go through so much in one day, and whatever it is that we refuse to accept in that day, our subconcious deals with it, by accepting it or confronthing the problem or situation with dreams. For example, you might think about your cousins pretty boobies, but society says that's kind of messed up to think about. So instead of accepting that sure, she has a nice rack, you push it to the back of your mind. That very act of refusing to accept it, might lead to a dream about say, your cousin holding some balloons. The baloons could represent well, you know. Just like your father telling you that you would be innocent, represented your ability to predict your own innocence, but in waking life you refused to accept it, thus - the dream. Maybe?

"A couple of weeks ago I dreampt about big MAC McLemon. He was a former marine and a friend of mine and I was saddened to hear he had passed away a few years ago. MAC was a black belt in a martial art, but I don't know which one. During the dream he told me it was the same art that I train in and he came to train with me. He was a top guy and it was nice to see him, even if only in a dream."

I think that dreams of other people could be reflections of yourself. Perhaps you miss him as a friend, but that dream could mean you miss that part of yourself. Think about the art that you train in, then ask yourself if you've been slacking a bit on training maybe? The dream could be a way of your subconcious reminding you of what you like about that art. *shrug* Just a guess.

"Strange things dreams arn't they.  Sometimes I wonder if we just dream what's on our minds."

I'm really interested in dreams too, I think they're really important. My take on what they are or what they mean, is that whatever your concious mind doesnt accept or has trouble dealing with, your subconcious mind deals with it through dreams, maybe to prevent mental problems.

Think about working out real hard, your muscles are screaming, you're sore, you go to sleep and your body repairs itself. Maybe its the same thing, except through dreams, we repair certain mental problems or issues we have during the day or situation in our waking life. A necessary natural process, just like how we naturally repair our muscles.

Again, all just an opinion. *shrug* --- It's pretty freudian.

 

[Kat Stevens]

I always find it amusing when a guy named K(c)at stevens talks about religion...

Well, then, the day wasn't a complete waste for me....

 

[exsemjingo]

How can you do research on something in order to believe in it, and still call it faith.  Faith by definition is a belief in something without empirical evidence to support it, is it not?  I don't habla theology too well, so feel free to dogpile, I've got big shoulders.

In response to your question, to have faith is to believe something without proof.  This is a little different than without evidence, since there is evidence to support the biblical record.
Oops, I missed a step there.  There is an important distinction between Eastern and Western Religion, in that Western Religion is based on historical events.  Eastern Religion is closer to philosophy, in that it's arguments stand alone and are not based on history.  That is not to say Western Religion is correct, because events actually took place, but rather, this shows the differing basis of belief. 
For example, Buddah would have actually lived at one point and done the things attributed to him, likewise with Confucius and others, but the substance of those respective religions is found in what they said and taught.
The substance of a Western Religion is attributed to what it's figures did.  That is why arguments for and against Biblical Accuracy are so  prevalent.  Muslims, for example, follow Mohamed's teachings because they believe he had revelation from the angel Gabriel.  His religious teachings are evaluated according to their origin, not merely according to their content.
Another really good example is Jesus.  There is actually far less emphasis on his teachings than one would expect in the gospels.  Instead, the focus is on how his actions fulfilled prophesies from the Old Testament.  The gospel writers cite constantly.

The prophesies are where the research part becomes important. These are not so much complicated as they are detailed.  The New Testament finds it's basis in the Old, while the Old Testament finds it's fulfilment in the New.  Each part depends on every other part.  On the other hand, disprove one part, and the whole is disproved. 
I hope I have been succinct enough.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Okay, is supporting evidence not defined as proof of something?

 

[StevenPeece]

I don't know how to do the quote thing, I'm sure it's easy but anyway I'll try to interpret the beginning dream you had. I'm interested in dreams as well. But this is all opinion, I'm no doctor.

"As a child my father wasn't around when I needed him, but during the time of my courtmartial ( in my first book) he came to me in a dream and told me I would be found not guilty."

Maybe your mind was able to predict that you would not be found guilty, based on the facts that were there. With that prediction, it comes to you in your unconcious state, because in your waking life you were refusing to accept the fact that you could be innocent.

I think maybe we go through so much in one day, and whatever it is that we refuse to accept in that day, our subconcious deals with it, by accepting it or confronthing the problem or situation with dreams. For example, you might think about your cousins pretty boobies, but society says that's kind of messed up to think about. So instead of accepting that sure, she has a nice rack, you push it to the back of your mind. That very act of refusing to accept it, might lead to a dream about say, your cousin holding some balloons. The baloons could represent well, you know. Just like your father telling you that you would be innocent, represented your ability to predict your own innocence, but in waking life you refused to accept it, thus - the dream. Maybe?

"A couple of weeks ago I dreampt about big MAC McLemon. He was a former marine and a friend of mine and I was saddened to hear he had passed away a few years ago. MAC was a black belt in a martial art, but I don't know which one. During the dream he told me it was the same art that I train in and he came to train with me. He was a top guy and it was nice to see him, even if only in a dream."

I think that dreams of other people could be reflections of yourself. Perhaps you miss him as a friend, but that dream could mean you miss that part of yourself. Think about the art that you train in, then ask yourself if you've been slacking a bit on training maybe? The dream could be a way of your subconcious reminding you of what you like about that art. *shrug* Just a guess.

"Strange things dreams arn't they.  Sometimes I wonder if we just dream what's on our minds."

I'm really interested in dreams too, I think they're really important. My take on what they are or what they mean, is that whatever your concious mind doesnt accept or has trouble dealing with, your subconcious mind deals with it through dreams, maybe to prevent mental problems.

Think about working out real hard, your muscles are screaming, you're sore, you go to sleep and your body repairs itself. Maybe its the same thing, except through dreams, we repair certain mental problems or issues we have during the day or situation in our waking life. A necessary natural process, just like how we naturally repair our muscles.

Again, all just an opinion. *shrug* --- It's pretty freudian.

I like the logic and my mind is open to translation:

Your observation:
Maybe your mind was able to predict that you would not be found guilty, based on the facts that were there. With that prediction, it comes to you in your unconcious state, because in your waking life you were refusing to accept the fact that you could be innocent.

My answer:
This is possible.  However, I've only dreampt about my father twice in my life.  Once during my court martial and again after I suffered a serious head injury some years later.  To be honest I was guilty on most accounts just like I wrote in my first book, but in reality it was a fight between two soldiers and something that should never have went to court.

Your observation:
I think that dreams of other people could be reflections of yourself. Perhaps you miss him as a friend, but that dream could mean you miss that part of yourself. Think about the art that you train in, then ask yourself if you've been slacking a bit on training maybe? The dream could be a way of your subconcious reminding you of what you like about that art. *shrug* Just a guess.

My answer:  I never slack in training or anything else for that matter.  I give everything 100% all the time.


However, it is still possible that we do just dream what's on our minds, but the deeper I look the more I learn and the more I feel I understand.
I don't beleive in coincidence, but my fathers timing for an appearance was impeccable.  Just when I needed him most!!!


regards

Steve

 

[armywife/cadetmom]

Thank you for this thread!  It has been a while since i have encountered such a stimulating conversation!
my input for the topic is, Yes i have had deja vue, it is pretty neat, but does evoke some fears in the fact that..'what if my nightmare' came into reality like the mundain thing i dreamt and am now living....
I have dreamt about family coming to me and comforting me....and i do find it real and something that strengthens my Faith.
THose quoting the bible, and defending their postion with religion....your Faith is what you make of it and chose to believe....if you Read the whole bible its a whole lot of contradiction!! And not a whole lot of it makes sense! If i had time i would back these statement, but it would also put us off topic...(i was reading thru mine last night as my children who just started Catholic School had a few questions; so there are parts of it still on my mind....Sorry i am NOT going to take my pain in the *** son to the gates of town and have him stoned to death just because he wont listen to us when we tell him to do chores and clean his room!!!!!)

ANyhoo...Fabulous thread, thanks guys! Wish my hsuband would have such in depth, enlightening convos with me.

 

[cplcaldwell]

I have a friend, who is also my doctor, who tried to explain dreams to me once.

He said that we understand very little about how our brains work but that some think that dreams are a way of validating our memory. When we sleep our brains remain quite active, but without anything to do they might resort to "background activity". Although we understand that our brains our organized, on a large scale, into various regions (front left is reason, front right is artistic and spatial etc.) much of the 'system' seems to be very unstructured. Part of this 'background activity' may have to do with what is normally our conscious having a conversation with our unconscious.

The conscious starts running through the circuits with the unconscious to validate memories. Sort of a neural 'net check' I guess. Sometimes we get valid memories, for instance like that wicked live fire at Pet that one time, or about the time one lost ones virginity. Sometimes we get invalid memories, like say, losing ones virginity in the turret of a Cougar. Such invalid memories are so startling that we remember them ...  as dreams. This can all be hypothesized by people who have watched imagery (i.e. MRI) of brain activity in sleeping people apparently.

Hmmmm.

Having said that this guy is a very devout Christian and is quite clear that when he prays for something he often gets the guidance in dreams. Not like DaVinci's God comes down off of the roof of the Sistine Chapel and says, 'Okay Bill you were asking about money last night, so I think T-Bills is the answer...' but more like he wakes up having known he had a dream, about his question, and he has the answer.

Like I say I don't remember my dreams and I believe in God but I think he's a bit of an arsehole and a trickster (see previous posts) so I guess it's like saying "We can explain it at one level, but at another level, we haven't got a clue what's goin' on"

 

[TCBF]

"Sometimes we get invalid memories, like say, losing ones virginity in the turret of a Cougar."

- Judge ye not, lest ye be judged.

 

[cplcaldwell]

 

[exsemjingo]

THose quoting the bible, and defending their postion with religion....your Faith is what you make of it and chose to believe....if you Read the whole bible its a whole lot of contradiction!! And not a whole lot of it makes sense! If i had time i would back these statement, ...(i was reading thru mine last night as my children who just started Catholic School had a few questions; so there are parts of it still on my mind....Sorry i am NOT going to take my pain in the *** son to the gates of town and have him stoned to death just because he wont listen to us when we tell him to do chores and clean his room!!!!!)

Sorry, but you've got to show which contradicts what, and where.  If you don't have the time to back up your statements, then you can't come to a conclusion for yourself, let alone use that conclusion in your posts.
I hope you are not presuming to teach your children religion by haphazardly ranting about random verses out of context.

Now, the verse you have cited is Deuteronomy 22:18-21.  This is not to be practiced today, but was a law under the Old Covenant, where Israel was to live perfectly as the people of God.  It is worth pointing out that very little of the Old Testament law was ever practiced, as the Israelites spent most of their time shirking their position and worshiping other gods.
You are right it pointing out that it is a difficult verse, but close examination bears out the context:  The offender repeatedly disobeys his father, and also his mother.  The sins named, of being a glutton and a drunkard, are habitual and continuous.  There is a procedure laid out in the verses; the parents were to take him to the city elders, they were to decide the matter, and then after their decision, the people of the city were to carry out the sentence.
This sounds more like the notorious local crook, than a typically disobedient teenager.  I hear people complain about the leniency of our Canadian justice system all the time.  Wouldn't you like to do this to your friendly neighborhood drug dealer?  (but I digress)
Bear in mind that there was not a formal court system, or police force, or prison system in ancient Israel.
Bear in mind also that there were no home equity loans, no CPP, and no welfare state.  Children lived with their parents into adulthood, and they supported them in turn.
Once again, remember Israel's position as the people of God.  They were supposed to live in perfect holiness under the Old Covenant.  Of course it did not work, and we live under the New Covenant where these rules do not apply, but that is another post.

Finally, if you are willing to accept the warts of the Roman Catholic Church, than why not those of Scripture?

 

[exsemjingo]

Okay, is supporting evidence not defined as proof of something?

Evidence does not equal proof.  Evidence comes together in rational arguments in order to make proof, but even this is not enough sometimes.  Science is most aware of this difference ( it is still the "theory" of gravity), but it is at work in all fields of study.
Where there is proof there is no room for faith, but to put your faith into something without any evidence whatsoever is, well, foolish.

 

[Kat Stevens]

-Evidence-  1 a : an outward sign : INDICATION b : something that furnishes proof : TESTIMONY; specifically : something legally submitted to a tribunal to ascertain the truth of a matter

-Proof- 1 a : the cogency of evidence that compels acceptance by the mind of a truth or a fact b : the process or an instance of establishing the validity of a statement especially by derivation from other statements in accordance with principles of reasoning

From Merriam-Webster Online

Please furnish a shipping address, as I have a pepper mill that I suspect is contaminated with fly shite, and you appear to be just the guy to pick it out for me.

 

[armywife/cadetmom]

exsemjingo..
The main Contradiction is the fact that there is a list of sins....dont commit those sins or youll go to Hell...but if you do commit those sins...ask Gods forgiveness and you shall be forgiven and go to Heaven.... How does that make any sense!

I will pick and chosewhich laws i will follow because..Oh..wait for it..because i am a Canadian, and i live in a free world.. That Soldiers protect..yeah! Thats right.  Besides, before i married my husband, i had broken every freaking Law there was in religion!  I cant change that fact can i!  I cant change who i lost my V to, or the fact that i had a child out of wedlock, or another child out of wedlock, or that i dishonoured my parents, that i did a whole lot of freaky stuff that you just shouldnt do like 'covet my neighbours wife' (and remember i am a female )

I only recently married a man who has adopted my children, with whom i have given a legitamate daughter, and we chose to bring the children into the Catholic faith, not because we want to follow every last one of Gods laws, but because we want them to have strong morals, faith in something other then TV, and a desire to help people..and we all know you wont get that in the public school system!!!

Regardless, this thread is about Dreams..if your beliefs dont agree with what others believe, why do you feel that you have to disrespect others beliefs? Do you also run around Day Cares ranting that there is no Santa Claus??

  Dreams, a question for the gentlemen here who are into dreams....Because dreams have such a powerful presence in our lives and our beliefs, what is your opinion on dreaming about being intamate with other people?

 

[exsemjingo]

armywife/cadetwoman, you sound like just the sort of person that Jesus died for.
You have listed some excellent reasons for bringing your children up Catholic, but you seem to have missed the most important one: The Gospel.  Next time you see your Padre, you should take him aside and ask him to explain the Gospel to you.
It's all about forgiveness.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

armywife/cadetwoman, you sound like just the sort of person that Jesus died for.
You have listed some excellent reasons for bringing your children up Catholic, but you seem to have missed the most important one: The Gospel.  Next time you see your Padre, you should take him aside and ask him to explain the Gospel to you.
It's all about forgiveness.

What is your point here?  This thread is about dreams, not "I took some theology at university and want to chime off at people".  Knock it off.  Armywife doesn't have to justify herself to anyone, and who are you to tell her that she "missed" anything?  Next time you see a Padre, you should take him aside and ask him to explain "humility" to you. 
I hope this is just your screen attitude, because if you think you are going to be an Infantry officer and can come off like that to your men, you are in for a rude awakening.

 

[Trinity]

armywife/cadetwoman, you sound like just the sort of person that Jesus died for.

What, a sinner?  And Jesus didn't die for someone like you?  You make army mom to sound
like a heinous person they way you typed that.  Now I recognize that wasn't your original intent
but re read how you typed that or have someone read it to you and actually listen to how the
words sound and its makes Army mom sound like a sinner and YOU come off sounding
arrogant and perfect.  (at least from the position I'm sitting from)

You have listed some excellent reasons for bringing your children up Catholic, but you seem to have missed the most important one: The Gospel.  Next time you see your Padre, you should take him aside and ask him to explain the Gospel to you.
It's all about forgiveness.

And love and caring and community.

And why just the gospels?  Many of Jesus' teachings came from the old testament and there is still validity in
the OT and the NT that aren't the gospel. 


I appreciate the fact you want to spread the word and encourage Army mom in her faith.  But if you aren't
careful on how you do it, you'll draw more fire to yourself as you already have.  But don't fret... I make mistakes
all the time while trying to do the same.  It's a fine act trying to spread the word and not offend others to the point
they don't want to talk to you or anyone who associates themself with religion.

What is your point here?  This thread is about dreams, not "I took some theology at university and want to chime off at people".  Knock it off.

But I did take theology at university!    But yes... let's stick to dreams.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

But I did take theology at university!    But yes... let's stick to dreams.

You, my friend, have a valid and qualified basis for your comments, and are a card carrying member of the God Squad. 
And you don't come off like a prck. 

 

[HItorMiss]

Doesn't come off as a prck???

You haven't had to sit next to him while he pontificates  ;D