Divining the right role, capabilities, structure, and Regimental System for Canada's Army Reserves

[dapaterson]

We could recruit dozens more than we are allowed to, regularly. As a result we're kind of slowly drying up, especially when CT opportunities to the Regs come through.

And how much deadwood is still kept on the Regimental lists because "He's a good chap who might come back" or "We'll do releases later"?  Recruiting quotas are based (in part) on the posted strength of the unit - so keeping folks on the books who haven't paraded for a year or more only serve to cut your quota.

There are problems with the system, to be sure - but there are also many problems within units that units steadfastly refuse to address.

 

[x_para76]

I'm not sure of the strength of Toronto's infantry units. I would say for units that can parade around 200 or more regularly, leave them be. If they can't produce, then group them under 1 CO and RSM and go for it. There will be some pushback, but once its said and done it is workable.

This would be a great idea for Hamilton as well. There are two infantry regiments and both have been steadily declining for one reason or another over the last few years, and both occupy the same armouries. If one unit could be formed likely from the RHLI as they're the senior regiment it would probably be a very successful move from the standpoint of training a fully manned company.

Unfortunately this would likely never happen as the regimental senate for the A&SHOFC seems to be tied right into the old boys network and would fight the move tooth and nail.

 

[Infanteer]

The British Regimental system, despite what many think, has evolved tremendously over the years since 1685 when Regiments were officially brought onto the English Army establishment.  Most people associate the Regimental system with the British Army of the Cardwell-Childers reform era.  This era only lasted from 1881 to 1957 (76 years).  For the 200 years previous, they were all numbered Regiments of Foot (except for the Guards regiments) that were raised and disbanded as required.

Cardwell-Childers saw the British Army turn 109 Regiments of Foot into 69 Country Regiments.  This Regimental System was created specifically for the problem of garrisoning the Empire.  Each of these country Regiments generally had two battalions (although a couple had four) with one being at home (and generally understrength) while the other served abroad (predominantly in India).  Add three (later five) Guards Regiments, Gurkha Regiments and (post WWII) the Parachute Regiment and you had a Regimental System that served the needs of the Army.  During the two World Wars, Regiments expanded greatly, raising dozens of battalions. 

When India left the Empire, all the second battalions were disbanded in 47/48 and the need for such a Regimental System vanished.  So the system changed, and a series of amalgamations began starting in 1957 and occurring again in 1964, 1972, 1991 and 2005.  This would see the British Army reduced from 69 County Regiments to 10 Line Regiments (to which we can add the five Guards Regiments, a Gurkha Regiment and the Parachute Regiment).

So, when people talk about "the ancient Regiments of the UK", they aren't being completely accurate, as all 10 of the Line Regiments are about a decade old.  They carry on the traditions of the Regiments they perpetuate (for example, The Rifles bear the traditions of 22 Regiments of Foot which would, in 1882 become 13 County Regiments) but they are all fairly new and representative of a Regimental System that adapts to suite the Army and times.  Curiously, only seven Regiments have ever been disbanded - five Irish Regiments were disbanded when independence was granted in 1922 and two others chose to disband in 1968 rather than be amalgamated.  The Armoured Regiments of the UK have a very similar history.

The so what of the history lesson?  The Canadian Army is stuck in Cardwell-Childers.  Our system was designed during the same time, saw some moderate revision in the Interwar period, but has been basically stuck in "Cardwell-Childers Regimental System" mode ever since.  The oldest Regiments in the UK will likely always be the Guards Regiments, but the oldest line regiment (The Cheshire Regiment - over 300 years of independent service) was amalgamated in 2007, which shows that any reform is possible and that the world won't end.  Until we are able to flick the switch and figure out a Regimental System that serves the times, we'll be stuck with little Regiments living in splendid isolation but basically serving as an individual replacement pool....

 

[ArmyRick]

So in other words Canadian Army, EVOLVE already! I agree. 85 man regiments are ridicolous and every exercise usually sees units mixing and matching to create coy and battalions.

 

[dapaterson]

So in other words Canadian Army, EVOLVE already! I agree. 85 man regiments are ridicolous and every exercise usually sees units mixing and matching to create coy and battalions.

Yes, evolve already, and have a Reg F set of Bns based on need, not capbadge, and put the best infantry officers in positions of command, not the best of a particular capbadge.  And review why we need nine ERE Infantry LCols for each one commanding one of the ten (nine Bns plus the school).

Wasteful Bn and Regimental structures are not unique to the P Res...

 

[daftandbarmy]

Yes, evolve already, and have a Reg F set of Bns based on need, not capbadge, and put the best infantry officers in positions of command, not the best of a particular capbadge.  And review why we need nine ERE Infantry LCols for each one commanding one of the ten (nine Bns plus the school).

Wasteful Bn and Regimental structures are not unique to the P Res...

Uh oh....  ;D

 

[Rifleman62]

Are we still at this?

Rifleman62:
[

b]« Reply #1109 on: March 13, 2009, 09:52:00 »[/b]

    Quote

I posted this here previously on: June 24, 2005, 22:54:58

It was only a matter of time, and the time is now. The Army Reserve needs transformation. We have far too many Reserve units that cannot be sustained. Too many Reserve units that cannot sustain leadership at all levels, especially at the MWO/CWO and Maj/LCol ranks. Unit sucession is difficult. Too many units with less than 75 effective personnel that have a CO, DCO, Adjt, RSM, Trg O, Orderly Room, Unit QM, etc. How many bayonets does that leave? Do we need all this unit infrastructure that we cannot sustain? Our Reserve units have not fought as a unit for over 60 years, and never will ( mobilization is dead, therefore the theory of why we need so many units is dead).In our CBG we have the following in a city of less than 115,000: a Nav Res stone frigrate; an Army Res Inf Bn and Svc Bn; a Coms Res Sqn; and a CFMG Fd Amb.The local area cannot sustain this many units, nor produce the senior leadership. We need to tacticaly group units, and in some cases all the P Res units in location. Why not a LCol or Cdr commanding all five of these units, with one OR, and a  Navy and Army Trg O's.  Sure cuts down on the infrastructure.  Sure sounds familiar.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Pardon an ignoramus such as I, but is the militia Battalion of the Royal 22nd Regiment working and training with its parent Regiment, or is it integrated into the RCBG system that covers Quebec?

If the later, would it not be the logical choice to see if it could be turned into a real "reserve" for the vandoos, run by the vandoos regulars, and then see if the concept could be expanded to the rest o he militia?

Just asking.

 

[Jungle]

Pardon an ignoramus such as I, but is the militia Battalion of the Royal 22nd Regiment working and training with its parent Regiment, or is it integrated into the RCBG system that covers Quebec?

If the later, would it not be the logical choice to see if it could be turned into a real "reserve" for the vandoos, run by the vandoos regulars, and then see if the concept could be expanded to the rest o he militia?

Just asking.

The 4th and 6th Battalions of the R22eR belong to 34 CBG.

 

[Remius]

The 4th and 6th Battalions of the R22eR belong to 34 CBG.

6th Battalion Canadian Guards also belongs to 34... ;D

 

[Colin Parkinson]

But the Reserves need a "draw" in order to recruit. With revolving tasks and no long term plan, why should anyone devote their spare time to the reserves? We were op's tasked to support 3rd herd, now a bit impractical, but the clear direction and extra resources, energized the unit for that time period, because you can give the new soldier and the long timer a clear answer in what is this all for?

Equipment is going to play a part to, imaginary equipment is going to lead to imaginary soldiers. Artillery is going to need artillery guns or some real mortars, armour is going to require some sort of light armoured vehicle or direct access to them. Infantry is going to need crew served weapons and transport. Support services need the equipment to do the job and Combat engineers are going to need heavy equipment.

This is all going to cost, but unless you invest in it, your numbers will continue to dwindle.

 

[daftandbarmy]

But the Reserves need a "draw" in order to recruit. With revolving tasks and no long term plan, why should anyone devote their spare time to the reserves? We were op's tasked to support 3rd herd, now a bit impractical, but the clear direction and extra resources, energized the unit for that time period, because you can give the new soldier and the long timer a clear answer in what is this all for?

Equipment is going to play a part to, imaginary equipment is going to lead to imaginary soldiers. Artillery is going to need artillery guns or some real mortars, armour is going to require some sort of light armoured vehicle or direct access to them. Infantry is going to need crew served weapons and transport. Support services need the equipment to do the job and Combat engineers are going to need heavy equipment.

This is all going to cost, but unless you invest in it, your numbers will continue to dwindle.

It's like any other sales process. Unfortunately, ours is stuck in the 'Don Draper' mode and era, while our competitors have entered the 'screen age' years ago....

 

[daftandbarmy]

I favour the older system of attesting virtually all-comers.  After they walk through the door and are cleared by the MO slap a beret/balmoral/glen/caubeen on their head, give them a pair of coveralls, a belt and a pair of boots and start them square-bashing.

After a few weeks of regular attendance put them on the Class A rolls and start paying them.

If they sign on for advanced training that would take them into Class B and C territory, potentially operating in support of the the Reserves or the Regs then clear them to the deployable standards of fitness and allowable moral turpitude.

The idea is get the interested into the system and engaged pdq.  At very least you will engage a part of the community and give them some exposure to the CF when they are most receptive.  That will give you a broader base of support in the community (even if it is only at the social club / auxiliary level) as well as developing a pool of attested willing from which the active Reserve and the Regs can be recruited.  You also get a longer period to actually evaluate recruits and determine if they are a fit.

With respect to liability - have the attested sign a waiver recognizing that they are not covered to the same standard as an enrolled soldier and have the CF/DND purchase commercial insurance similar to that purchased by high risk adventure businesses (skiing, parachuting, rafting, climbing etc) to cover loss of life and limb.

The full coverage should only be supplied to Class A,B and C Reserves and Regs under existing regulations.

I was the Rct O for the SHofC in 1980 (back when the earth was cooling and every civvy thought we were Vietnam baby killers) and we did exactly that. Within 3 months we had over 150 people on parade every night. Some dropped out before they hit recruit training, but we ran local courses on which all recruits were loaded and churned them through in droves. I recal one course with 60 recruits, all quartered right in the armoury during weekend courses. Many of those who came through this sausage machine are our SNCOs and Senior Officers of today (- or retired )

 

[quadrapiper]

Seems there might also be a need for, in whatever structure might be adopted, much more flexibility in structure and role depending on unit location. The model that works in a university town might not be the right one for a rural unit. The former might need to adopt a structure based on bulk intakes and short service (hopefully ending with a transfer, rather than release), while the latter is likely looking at a more stable, but significantly smaller, existence.

Any thoughts on a split-purpose scheme? Group one is (relatively) short-notice deployable, either individually or on a small-unit basis, acting as a reserve for the Regulars, while group two is focused on DomOps in all their variety, acting as enablers for group one, local/civil defence, and whatever other domestic tasks might be best filled by part-time personnel.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

As we did for the "Summer Youth Employment Programs" Worked quite well actually. Thankfully I had squirreled away the 51 pattern webbing, so the course went into the field looking like real 1960 reg force with webbing, black coveralls, boots and berets  ;D

Buy cheap airsoft tactical vests for them, coverall type uniforms, normal sleeping bags, poncho's to make hooches for the field and a fund to hire locally for the summer and bring on staff from the local units. You get young Jr and Snr NCO experience commanding troops, teaching skills and field craft. Perhaps run 1-2 course per brigade every summer. Convince Cabinet to force Human resources Canada (or whatever their name is now) to cough up some money to help pay the recruits. At the end offer them long term reserve or reg force service.   

 

[Kirkhill]

The more we talk about this the more I realize there is already an expandable model available:  3 Div's "Bold Eagle" programme.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/jobs-caf-aboriginal/bold-eagle-training.page

Challenge: Are you eligible?

This summer training program gives participants a taste of military life via the basic military qualification course – with the option to pursue a part-time or full-time career with the Canadian Armed Forces afterwards.

Conducted within 3rd Canadian Division (3 Cdn Div) since summer 1990, Bold Eagle is a partnership between the Department of National Defence and Aboriginal organizations from across western Canada.

Since its inception, over 1200 Aboriginal youth have completed the demanding Bold Eagle program, with many continuing to serve part-time or full-time in the Canadian Armed Forces afterwards.

Are you up to the Bold Eagle challenge?
Are you Aboriginal (First Nation, Métis or Inuit)?
Are you 16 years of age or older?
Have you completed Grade 10 or higher education?
Are you a Canadian citizen?
Are you residing in western Canada or north-western Ontario?
If you answered yes to all of the above, then you meet the eligibility requirements to apply to Bold Eagle.

Take the challenge and apply before April 30th!

Notes:
Can apply at age 16 provided you turn 17 years of age prior to enrolment (attending the program).
An exception to this is that you can apply and enroll (attend) at age 16 provided you are in school full-time.
Parental or legal guardian consent is required for those under 18 years of age. The age limit to apply is 29 years of age.
Those completing grade 10 may apply provided they obtain a letter from their high school outlining the courses they are taking and potential to complete them in order to attain grade 10 standing at the end of the school year.
They cannot be enrolled until they provide proof of completion; and this may affect selection given there are limited positions which may already be filled at that time.
Residents of British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and NW Ontario are eligible to apply for the program.

The course itself is the standard five-week Army Reserve Basic Military Qualification (BMQ).

In addition to the comprehensive and extremely demanding training, there are regular Elder hours throughout, and also a mid-course sweat in the sweat lodge.

During the BMQ course, candidates learn what every new recruit requires: military knowledge, weapons handling, navigation with map and compass, first aid, drill, outdoor field craft and survival skills for example. The training is designed to promote self-confidence, self-discipline, teamwork and physical fitness.

Maybe you could leave the pow-wows, sweat lodges and aboriginal influences in the programme.

The Kiwis seem to have effectively married British Squares with the Maori Haka as part of their military culture.

 

[MilEME09]

While its a very good program from what I've seen, from those who i've talked to that went through it, its also a culture shock for many which shy's many away from continuing on for a career in the reg force or from joining the reserves.

 

[Kirkhill]

Perhaps it might not be as much of a culture shock for non-aboriginals...

But there again

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Who is she? 

 

[dimsum]

The Kiwis seem to have effectively married British Squares with the Maori Haka as part of their military culture.

The Kiwis have integrated bits of Maori culture (specifically the Haka) into every aspect of their society.  Each school/sporting team/etc. has their own Haka, so it's natural for them that the military would have it as well. 

I'm not sure we could do something similar now, since the aboriginal culture isn't as ingrained in the collective Canadian identity.