Directives to military chaplains urge expunging God, religion from Remembrance Day, public ceremonies

[Humphrey Bogart]

You’d have to take that up with the civilian crown prosecutor in Quebec who took the MP investigative disclosure and found reasonable grounds and sufficient public interest to lay a charge. While things unquestionably went sideways there, it’s not the illustrative example of your point that you think it is. Many better ones could undoubtedly be found that were entirely own goals by CAF.

What went sideways? The fact he wasn't convicted?

It actually 100% illustrative of the point.

Along with a dumpster fire full other burned/missing documents

 

[PMedMoe]

Everyone go to a service on Nov 11th and then report back here whether there were prayers or not.

As I said earlier, I think this is a tempest in a teapot and a few Conservatives (and Conservative papers) took the ball and ran with it. Gotta be outraged at something, right?

 

[ArmyRick]

Stop thinking religion for a minute. What is trudeau famous for? Division. He thrives on it. Tell me this hasn't been sitting there waiting for an opportunity. Nobody just pulled this out of their ass, two weeks before Remembrance Day. Why does he like division and causing it? Have you been watching his latest scandals? He sinking like lead. Division equals distraction. How many cities and services across Canada are going to have serving Padres in attendance to lead prayers? Unless there is a DND facility in the vicinity, not many.

I'm pissed at the whole thing, but not because of religion, equality, diversity, equity or whatever this week's buzz word is. I'm pissed because my government is using religion, the military participation and Remembrance Day as a tool of government and to cover his mistakes and fuck ups.

It also serves to diminish worship. Socialists don't want religion for the masses. They want the state to be your religion.

Most people never even gave this a second thought when the media mentioned it. Mostly Serving and Veterans are upset about this.Most others could care less.

He's gotten rid of dress regs, spent millions telling us it's hard to be green and get us to live it. Sent equipment overseas that we'll never see again and cut a billion from the budget. Just another institution to trash and destroy.

I've always considered religion as something private. How you communicate with your diety is your business, NOT mine. Call your diety Fred or Fredrica if you wish, again NMB.

So, no. I’m not worried about it. Just typical behavior for our racist, misogynistic, divisive man child. The order will likey only last as long as trudeau does.

Full disclosure - I did feign huge outrage and used it as a pretence, when I wrote to hack on and bitch out the grit MP for my riding as well as another letter to the PM.

100% Spot on. Its NOT at all about religion. Its Trudeau pandering to a smaller and smaller group of supporters and using that same tactic. Its not working, every move he makes just pisses the majority off even more.

The most interesting thing? No one in the Legion, FN communities, CAF members, etc had any issue with religious prayers or blessings from Catholic or Protestant Padres, Imams, Rabbi or other spiritual leaders.

It is Trudeau who is sinking so low in the polls he would have to climb up to reach sewer pipes, needed another small cheap political win.

@btrudy no. Just no. You would excuse Trudeau and his brand for doing anything.

 

[Biomans]

The most interesting thing? No one in the Legion, FN communities, CAF members, etc had any issue with religious prayers or blessings from Catholic or Protestant Padres, Imams, Rabbi or other spiritual leaders.

For a military hierarchy specific CMAC ruling on prayers, the 2004 Scott decision is worth a gander.

Court Martial Appeal Court of Canada

Court Martial Appeal Court of Canada

decisions.cmac-cacm.ca

Applying blanket statements to the beliefs of a group, not bound by those beliefs, will inevitably prove false.

 

[ArmyRick]

Applying blanket statements to the beliefs of a group, not bound by those beliefs, will inevitably prove false.

1 incident out of how many hundreds of thousands of remembrance day ceremonies participants? We need to stop bending the whole road for one outlier. Canada does that too much.

 

[ArmyRick]

When I see a funeral procession driving past me, I remove my hat and hold my hand over my heart regardless of what religion or even if any. I show respect, simple. My religious views are much more along FN views (honouring Mother Nature).

Removing your headress is more about respecting the fallen from wars and military service. When you worry about whether its violating your own religious views, your making it about yourself.

Respect the fallen.

 

[Biomans]

1 incident out of how many hundreds of thousands of remembrance day ceremonies participants? We need to stop bending the whole road for one outlier. Canada does that too much.

You should probably read that article instead of assuming the contents, it wasn't over a remembrance day parade. Just because people have accepted the will of the Christian majority for so long doesn't mean they agreed with it, it's easier to not challenge the system when the backlash can have devastating consequences to your career.

 

[ArmyRick]

You should probably read that article instead of assuming the contents, it wasn't over a remembrance day parade. Just because people have accepted the will of the Christian majority for so long doesn't mean they agreed with it, it's easier to not challenge the system when the backlash can have devastating consequences to your career.

You totally didn't get my point. At all.

 

[ArmyRick]

You should probably read that article instead of assuming the contents, it wasn't over a remembrance day parade. Just because people have accepted the will of the Christian majority for so long doesn't mean they agreed with it, it's easier to not challenge the system when the backlash can have devastating consequences to your career.

Let me try this again

Removing your headress is more about respecting the fallen from wars and military service. When you worry about whether its violating your own religious views, your making it about yourself.

 

[Biomans]

Let me try this again

Removing your headress is more about respecting the fallen from wars and military service. When you worry about whether its violating your own religious views, your making it about yourself.

Removing your headdress in a remembrance day ceremony isn't a religious act, I did understand your point on that matter (and agree with it). The incident I quoted had nothing to do with a soldier refusing to remove their headdress out of respect for the fallen. My focus on your original post was just the part I quoted specifically on people having issues with religious prayers, in any context.

Make sense now?

 

[Navy_Pete]

I may be a bit fuzzy but last time I went to the main one in Ottawa there was a padre, a rabbi and a FN elder who all gave reflections. None of them were prayers, but all were very good.

Unfortunately Rabbi Bulka died a few years ago, but he was actually the chaplain for the RCL. IIRC the FN elder was specifically a nod to the FN veterans, which was nice to see after they got the shaft for so long. Also they had some pretty incredible beaded poppies which I would just love some RCL clown to complain about.

All that to say is I don't remember padres actually doing prayers on any parades or ceremonies for a long time, so I think this direction is making the actual practice official vice any real change.

 

[brihard]

What went sideways? The fact he wasn't convicted?

It actually 100% illustrative of the point.

Along with a dumpster fire full other burned/missing documents

No, I take no exception to him being acquitted. That was the judge’s finding, I have no reason to question its legitimacy nor correctness. By ‘going sideways’, I’m referring to whatever happened between the investigators determining the file was ready for referral, to the stage of prosecution in court. Maybe that was in the hands of the MPs, maybe crown- I can’t say. I generally think that, in most cases, an acquittal could probably have been anticipated based on observable weaknesses in a case, and if weaknesses are that apparent, should it go to court and the accused be out through that wringer? I suspect you’re sitting there believing I’m going to mindlessly defend any and every criminal prosecution because of my profession. That would be incorrect.

Sticking to the topic: CAF’s direction to the Chaplaincy is a response to both civil and court martial case law, and a desire to avoid obviously foreseeable unfavorable legal decisions. It’s now obvious that CAF no longer or do something it used to do and endorse, so they changed policy to follow the law. Pretty straightforward, and decidedly different from a case of a botched prosecution overseen by civilian crown.

 

[alberthead62]

Just when I thought that the pendulum swung enough, being politically correct, and we were going back to the centre, then this happens.

Directives to military chaplains urge expunging God, religion from Remembrance Day, public ceremonies

The directive urges chaplains to 'adopt a sensitive and inclusive approach' during public addresses.

nationalpost.com

s the earth.

Just when I thought that the pendulum swung enough, being politically correct, and we were going back to the centre, then this happens.

Directives to military chaplains urge expunging God, religion from Remembrance Day, public ceremonies

The directive urges chaplains to 'adopt a sensitive and inclusive approach' during public addresses.

nationalpost.com

Evil stalks the earth. None of this should come as a shock or surprise, though. We should expect it and not just from this government or society. In the last days such things will happen. There will be a great falling away from the faith and those who are left; the remnant, shall be left. Hence the “narrow gate”.

 

[Kirkhill]

You know, I never really used to think about being white or Christian. I never really thought much about people that weren't either. I grew up in some pretty mixed communities and travelled a lot.

But a funny thing seems to be happening. The more people reference whiteness and Christianity the whiter and more Christian I seem to become.

Go figure.

 

[brihard]

Evil stalks the earth. None of this should come as a shock or surprise, though. We should expect it and not just from this government or society. In the last days such things will happen. There will be a great falling away from the faith and those who are left; the remnant, shall be left. Hence the “narrow gate”.

And this sort of sentiment very nicely highlights the necessity of a court-protected official secularism to keep this sort of stuff out of any and all official proceedings.

 

[Infanteer]

 

[GK .Dundas]

And this sort of sentiment very nicely highlights the necessity of a court-protected official secularism to keep this sort of stuff out of any and all official proceedings.

Another bloody heathen heard from...

 

[daftandbarmy]

Yet another example of peacetime thinking


"In times of war and not before,
God and the soldier we adore.
But in times of peace and all things righted,
God is forgotten and the soldier slighted."

- Rudyard Kipling

 

[Biomans]

Yet another example of peacetime thinking


"In times of war and not before,
God and the soldier we adore.
But in times of peace and all things righted,
God is forgotten and the soldier slighted."

- Rudyard Kipling

It probably gives religious people a lot of comfort to think Atheism is a peacetime luxury. It means they think Atheism isn't a genuinely held belief (technically, lack of) and can be dismissed as a mindset of the weak. Because when the going gets tough, everyone finds God.

Total fantasy, but I get why it gives them comfort.

"Everyone knows deep down we're right" - every religion/cult ever

 

[Furniture]

It probably gives religious people a lot of comfort to think Atheism is a peacetime luxury. It means they think Atheism isn't a genuinely held belief and can be dismissed as a mindset of the weak. Because when the going gets tough, everyone finds God.

Total fantasy, but I get why it gives them comfort.

"Everyone knows deep down we're right" - every religion/cult ever

Just like atheists who pretend they are better because they are confident in their belief there is no God... Both groups can be obnoxious.