Defending Canadian Arctic Sovereignty

[Eye In The Sky]

That may change when Putin sends his ships through the NW Passage uninvited.

Vladimir Putin, Justin Trudeau, and Canada’s Arctic problem

All of Moscow’s effort and attention, combined with Canada’s neglect, has effectively turned the Arctic Ocean into Putin’s Lake.

That was said like it is going to happen in the future...as opposed to 'that ship has (literally) already sailed...'

 

[Good2Golf]

Isn't the NE Passage more passable (both duration and clearance between land and ice) than the NW? 

I would think that the Russians would prefer to follow the easier route...that they have been spending decades building infrastructure along the way to support its use, non?


Regards
G2G

 

[daftandbarmy]

Isn't the NE Passage more passable (both duration and clearance between land and ice) than the NW? 

I would think that the Russians would prefer to follow the easier route...that they have been spending decades building infrastructure along the way to support its use, non?


Regards
G2G

I've only been to the high arctic a few times, but I attended a presentation by Uncle Walt at Royal Roads ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Natynczyk

... where he said, and I quote pretty much verbatim, "If anyone invaded Canada's Arctic, my first responsibility would to rescue them'.

And I tend to agree. It's vast, cold and presents an awesome barrier to invasion, even if the ice is less prevalent than in previous years.

There are more urgent threats on our national survival horizon, IMHO.

 

[Lumber]

Isn't the NE Passage more passable (both duration and clearance between land and ice) than the NW? 

I would think that the Russians would prefer to follow the easier route...that they have been spending decades building infrastructure along the way to support its use, non?


Regards
G2G

Yes, but the NE Passage goes through either Russian waters, international waters, or international recognizes straits.

The NW Passage, on the other hand, is being claimed by a bunch of Western-European emigrants. So, they'll keep using the NE passage while putting all of their international efforts toward the NW Passage; that's why you hear more about it.

 

[Good2Golf]

Yes, but the NE Passage goes through either Russian waters, international waters, or international recognizes straits.

The NW Passage, on the other hand, is being claimed by a bunch of Western-European emigrants. So, they'll keep using the NE passage while putting all of their international efforts toward the NW Passage; that's why you hear more about it.

That, I suppose, was my thinly veiled point.  RUS: NE = regular business, NW = disruption activities.

:2c:

G2G

 

[MarkOttawa]

Mainly US Coast Guard and icebreakers but relevant to CCG and all the "arctic sovereignty" fussing:

The Bear and the North American Arctic: Not Really to Worry (for now)
https://cgai3ds.wordpress.com/2016/10/13/mark-collins-the-bear-and-the-north-american-arctic-not-really-to-worry-for-now/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Colin Parkinson]

New CCG vessel and base

New inshore rescue boat station in Nunavut

Rankin Inlet, with a population of 2,800, has been selected as the site of Canada's first Arctic inshore rescue boat station. The station is set to open this summer depending on ice conditions and weather and will consist of a six-person crew operating out of an existing building and a nine-metre, enclosed rigid-hull inflatable boat. The station is just the latest among 25 student-run rescue stations in Canada. However, its first few seasons will include seasoned veterans among six Indigenous students being recruited by the Canadian Coast Guard in the North. Crew members will undergo initial training alongside their southern-station counterparts in Ontario. This initial training will include Canada's national search and rescue system, search patterns, boat handling, marine first aid, and radio communication.

http://www.cosbc.ca/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=3964:new-inshore-rescue-boat-station-in-nunavut&Itemid=294

 

[Underway]

This is excellent news.  Increases arctic sov, helps fulfil our requirements under the Arctic SAR agreement and give jobs to people where jobs are scarce.  Hell maybe they might even save some lives some day!

 

[daftandbarmy]

This is excellent news.  Increases arctic sov, helps fulfil our requirements under the Arctic SAR agreement and give jobs to people where jobs are scarce.  Hell maybe they might even save some lives some day!

And one of these days, there might even be a road....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/churchill-build-road-engineer-1.4174034

 

[Old Sweat]

It can be done, because we did it. See the wikipedia entry here about the Dempster Highway from Dawson City to Inuvik and then to Tuk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dempster_Highway

 

[Eye In The Sky]

This is excellent news. Increases arctic sov, helps fulfil our requirements under the Arctic SAR agreement and give jobs to people where jobs are scarce.  Hell maybe they might even save some lives some day!

Ref the yellow part...is that not a bit of a stretch?

Curious, where would this stations AOR extend out to/cover?  Wondering how far they can go in one of those model of RHIBs.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

It's a beginning, and overdue. The thing about SAR stations is that once in place the stats for SAR incidents climb because they are now counting the ones that never made it onto the radar, done by locals. Hopefully they put in some VHF repeaters in the area as well to extend radio communications.

 

[YZT580]

I would say 'GREAT'  if the same infrastructure was put in place in every major community.  Even with a 40 knot speed the effective radius for response would be less than 150 miles and that is probably stretching it.  After that, one might just as well wait for the C130 from Winnipeg (would hope).  This smells more like a 'placate the natives' gesture instead of a true attempt at providing a real service to the citizens of the north.  Or maybe I am just being cynical.

 

[Blackadder1916]

I would say 'GREAT'  if the same infrastructure was put in place in every major community.  Even with a 40 knot speed the effective radius for response would be less than 150 miles and that is probably stretching it.  After that, one might just as well wait for the C130 from Winnipeg (would hope).  This smells more like a 'placate the natives' gesture instead of a true attempt at providing a real service to the citizens of the north.  Or maybe I am just being cynical.

As a dyed in the wool cynic, my impression is much the same.  Though I don't discount the service provided by the youngsters who staff the Inshore Rescue Boat programme, let's not forget that it was initially started (and continues to be funded primarily) as a summer job programme for students, much like some programmes that DND once ran (though funded from outside the defence budget) like SYEP.  Though some reports identify one of the benefits of the IRB as being a gateway to attract individuals to continue a career with the CCG (or DFO or whatever gov't dept sends civilians on/over the water), the young people who do man these boats can only do it for two years max during the summers while attending a postsecondary school.  While it may be to "placate the natives", they should be just as entitled to have access to summer student job opportunities as their southern countrymen. This will not be a year round service, it will only operate May to Sept (just like all the other IRBs) to accommodate the school calendar.

 

[Kirkhill]

YZT - You are just being cynical.

I have nothing against "just placating the natives".  It is a dam sight more useful than constantly perturbing them.... particularly if I want to buy the minerals on their ground, lay pipelines or cut down trees.

It is not ludicrous for natives to want to have a lifestyle comparable to us southerners.  It is ludicrous to apply technologies that work in Holland and France (and southern Ontario at a stretch).  Building communities based on railways, 4 lane highways, natural gas lines, power lines and water and sewer in the constant freeze-thaw of our North is a nonsense.

Doing stuff differently has to make sense.  In a world of "tiny houses" and "off-grid" southerners it can't be beyond the ability of bureaucrats to make communities of self-supporting houses.

Equally, it can't be beyond the ability of bureaucrats to supply ambulances, fire-trucks and rescue vehicles that don't require roads.

In fact, rather than RHIBs I would suggest supplying a mixed complement of these:

and these

I think it would be an awful lot cheaper, and more effective, than flying CH-146s in C-17s from Trenton every time some kiddy wanders off into the bush.

National sovereignty starts with the government making itself useful - and that means providing public services.

It is worth our while subsidizing folks that want to live on land that we want to exploit.  If we don't subsidize them they will find someone else who will and the map of Canada will be a lot smaller.

:cheers: ;D

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

That's funny: I saw it more as "placate" the "adventure-tourism" industry plan. These "adventure" warriors are mostly older rich adults from the urban centres of North America endEurope who want to see the Arctic and other remote lists , but from the comfort of fully equipped cruise ships, etc.

SAR has been going on up in the Arctic for a long time, and it is tracked Colin, but is normally operated with local resources (large boats, ski-doos, ATV) by the local Ranger patrols. The "adventure-tourism" industry doesn't trust them (but they should - they are damn good at it).

And, BTW, Chris: there are no trees to cut in the area where this station is going up. Just sayin'  ;D

 

[Kirkhill]

....

And, BTW, Chris: there are no trees to cut in the area where this station is going up. Just sayin'  ;D

Hardeharhar - he finds another nit to pick. 

 

[YZT580]

My comment was not repeat not intended to diminish the role of the 'natives' but rather to emphasis the pathetic response of the government.  Properly equipped and staffed stations should be located in every town/village of any size located along the coastline. The Brits have manned life stations for centuries because they save lives, not because they attract votes but locating a single station 2/3 of the way up the Hudson Bay coast is nothing but throwing a few crumbs at the locals.  It is neither cost effective nor is it a good use of resources.  As a training programme for college kids it should be tailored to lead into permanent positions in the north staffing those rescue centres and augmenting the rangers who, I agree, are top of the line.  Their only limitation is their number and I suspect that it would expand rapidly if the government ever took the lid off. 

To augment those RHIB and tracked vehicles you should also include a DH6 every second or third life station along the coast, co-located with the rangers and staffed by ranger pilots.  Then you could leave the hercs at home and we wouldn't have to worry about duty hours and the extremely limited range of our new SAR aircraft.  As a bonus, you would provide jobs to BC (viking) those encouraging those folks to vote for pixie dust.

 

[Kirkhill]

I see your position now YZT - and agree with you.

Cheers.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

New CCG vessel and base

New inshore rescue boat station in Nunavut

Rankin Inlet, with a population of 2,800, has been selected as the site of Canada's first Arctic inshore rescue boat station. The station is set to open this summer depending on ice conditions and weather and will consist of a six-person crew operating out of an existing building and a nine-metre, enclosed rigid-hull inflatable boat. The station is just the latest among 25 student-run rescue stations in Canada. However, its first few seasons will include seasoned veterans among six Indigenous students being recruited by the Canadian Coast Guard in the North. Crew members will undergo initial training alongside their southern-station counterparts in Ontario. This initial training will include Canada's national search and rescue system, search patterns, boat handling, marine first aid, and radio communication.

http://www.cosbc.ca/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=3964:new-inshore-rescue-boat-station-in-nunavut&Itemid=294

Sorry folks, but to me, this capability has little if anything to do with 'defending Canadian Arctic Sovereignty'.  I see a capability where there wasn't one, but it is a SAR one, not a 'defence' or 'sovereignty' one.

Anyone know what size of an AOR a single boat of this type is typically responsible for?