CPC Leadership Discussion 2020-21

[Weinie]

I hear you. My opinion is that the man who got his girlfriend pregnant should have no say in the matter. He's already guilty of making one bad decision.

Except if the girlfriend emphatically assures you that she is using a birth control method (the pill), there is no need for a condom, declares she is pregnant, and then says she must have missed a day. (Not that I have ever experienced a situation like this.......cough,cough). Not a bad decision, bad judgement.

 

[suffolkowner]

Monty Python to the rescue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk

 

[Blackadder1916]

Monty Python to the rescue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk

And the other view.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDBjsFAyiwA

 

[Kat Stevens]

Except if the girlfriend emphatically assures you that she is using a birth control method (the pill), there is no need for a condom, declares she is pregnant, and then says she must have missed a day. (Not that I have ever experienced a situation like this.......cough,cough). Not a bad decision, bad judgement.

Unless I badly misheard in Grade 9 Bio, it takes two ingredients to create human life.

 

[Donald H]

Except if the girlfriend emphatically assures you that she is using a birth control method (the pill), there is no need for a condom, declares she is pregnant, and then says she must have missed a day. (Not that I have ever experienced a situation like this.......cough,cough). Not a bad decision, bad judgement.

I hear you but my opinion wouldn't change on the man not having any say in whether to abort of keep the fetus. The reason being that the situation hasn't changed.

You know Weinie, sometimes I get the feeling that issues must be invented for political purposes, when in reality very little social disagreement exists in Canada.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Except if the girlfriend emphatically assures you that she is using a birth control method (the pill), there is no need for a condom, declares she is pregnant, and then says she must have missed a day. (Not that I have ever experienced a situation like this.......cough,cough). Not a bad decision, bad judgement.

Caveat emptor.  Much as in real estate transactions (or, to bring it somewhat back on topic, in judging the statements made by politicians), it is up to the party of the first part to confirm all claims prior to taking action.  In the absence of a binding warranty against all perils or consequences occurring after the fact, then one has to live with the outcome of their actions.

 

[shawn5o]

I hear you. My opinion is that the man who got his girlfriend pregnant should have no say in the matter. He's already guilty of making one bad decision.

and

In the words of Dave Chappelle: "My wallet, my choice."

Should one person's decision be able to affect so many others in such a profound way?  For example, in an unplanned pregnancy (a casual sex situation) where the mother wants to keep but the father does not, should the father than be absolved of any future financial and parental obligations?

I cannot give a clear answer on these statements. I believe it was in Québec where a young couple found out that  she was pregnant. The father wanted to keep the pregnancy whereas the mother didn't. He went to court to stop the abortion and while it was winding through the court, she went ahead and had the abortion. A couple of days later, the court declined the father's wishes and then he found out she had had the abortion.

As for financial obligations, I think the man usually loses.

Slightly different - apparently if a man and woman live together and she has a child from another relationship, if the current man accepts the child (not adoption) and they later splitup, he can be made to pay child support. In another weird twist, a man raises the child thinking he is the father, and the couple split up, he would probably have to pay child support even though he is not the biological father.

Perhaps one of the legal beagles (no offence meant) can clear my a/m post.

 

[FJAG]

...
Perhaps one of the legal beagles (no offence meant) can clear my a/m post.

I'm staying out of this discussion.

:worms:

 

[Weinie]

Caveat emptor.  Much as in real estate transactions (or, to bring it somewhat back on topic, in judging the statements made by politicians), it is up to the party of the first part to confirm all claims prior to taking action.  In the absence of a binding warranty against all perils or consequences occurring after the fact, then one has to live with the outcome of their actions.

Except that, if you deliberately misrepresent the property that you are selling, it is a tort. There is no warranty excuse when you deliberately mislead.

 

[suffolkowner]

And the other view.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDBjsFAyiwA

very good clip as well. The abortion discussion is such a minefield that I expect our Canadian solution to remain for some time

 

[ModlrMike]

The tricky bit is that AFIK, there is no law in Canada that specifically permits, or prohibits abortion. To those who shout "he's going to change the law", I say "you have to create that law first".

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I hear you but my opinion wouldn't change on the man not having any say in whether to abort of keep the fetus. The reason being that the situation hasn't changed.

You know Weinie, sometimes I get the feeling that issues must be invented for political purposes, when in reality very little social disagreement exists in Canada.

I would argue that a full science based discussion and few films of late term abortions would likely convince most Canadians to accept abortion by choice in the first, possibly 2nd trimester and only under extraordinarily circumstances in the 3rd. That is a solution neither group of advocates would be happy for, so they avoid it. Also as I have mentioned there are heavy legal implications for the State, if life is deemed to start in the womb and the mother is incapable of caring properly for the fetus (think drug addiction). 

 

[Blackadder1916]

The CPC has a new logo.

https://twitter.com/i/events/1308516896921194496

 

[Remius]

The CPC has a new logo.

https://twitter.com/i/events/1308516896921194496

Good I guess...RCAF?  I wonder how long that will be tolerated...

 

[Kilted]

O'Toole says he wants to eject Derek Sloan from caucus after donation from white nationalist | CBC News

I suspect he's wanted to do this for awhile, and is just using this as an excuse. Given the same size of the donation I think that it is reasonable to suspect that Sloan's staff was unaware of this individual background. I don't think that it's reasonable to expect research to be done on every single person who donates. My guess would be that most politicians from all parts of the spectrum have received donations from individuals that they wouldn't want to be associated with.

 

[brihard]

O'Toole says he wants to eject Derek Sloan from caucus after donation from white nationalist | CBC News

I suspect he's wanted to do this for awhile, and is just using this as an excuse. Given the same size of the donation I think that it is reasonable to suspect that Sloan's staff was unaware of this individual background. I don't think that it's reasonable to expect research to be done on every single person who donates. My guess would be that most politicians from all parts of the spectrum have received donations from individuals that they wouldn't want to be associated with.

Concur. Sounds like the donation was in the name of “(other name) P. Fronm”. Easy enough to get missed.

It’s a no-win for O’Toole, but with really only one choice. He absolutely cannot accept the risk of any of this particular type of mud sticking. As likely as it is that Sloan’s campaign was unaware of who the donation came from, strategically the CPC will get eaten alive worse if they don’t throw Sloan under the bus than they will if they do. While a lot of noise is now being made by people calling O’Toole ‘liberal-lite’, I think he saw and seized an opportunity to be seen taking a tough stand on a issue of strategic concern for the party’s image. O’Toole will take the bulk of the political damage personally, rather than CPC as a party eating it and losing votes.

However with a possible spring election coming to lock in a majority, O’Toole will really need to start swinging soon if he’s to energize Conservative voters. Pollievre had been arguably more visible than he has. Not a great look.

 

[Haggis]

O'Toole says he wants to eject Derek Sloan from caucus after donation from white nationalist | CBC News

I suspect he's wanted to do this for awhile, and is just using this as an excuse. Given the same size of the donation I think that it is reasonable to suspect that Sloan's staff was unaware of this individual background. I don't think that it's reasonable to expect research to be done on every single person who donates. My guess would be that most politicians from all parts of the spectrum have received donations from individuals that they wouldn't want to be associated with.

Sloan was always too far right for my liking. I attempted to communicate with his team during the leadership campaign regarding his somewhat extreme (IMO) firearms policy but never even received an acknowledgement.

 

[Good2Golf]

Concur. Sounds like the donation was in the name of “(other name) P. Fronm”. Easy enough to get missed.

It’s a no-win for O’Toole, but with really only one choice. He absolutely cannot accept the risk of any of this particular type of mud sticking. As likely as it is that Sloan’s campaign was unaware of who the donation came from, strategically the CPC will get eaten alive worse if they don’t throw Sloan under the bus than they will if they do. While a lot of noise is now being made by people calling O’Toole ‘liberal-lite’, I think he saw and seized an opportunity to be seen taking a tough stand on a issue of strategic concern for the party’s image. O’Toole will take the bulk of the political damage personally, rather than CPC as a party eating it and losing votes.

However with a possible spring election coming to lock in a majority, O’Toole will really need to start swinging soon if he’s to energize Conservative voters. Pollievre had been arguably more visible than he has. Not a great look.

Maybe Sloan should apologize and cry a little bit?

...that seems to work well with Canadians.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

I had never heard of O'Toole before the leadership contest. I have been pleasantly surprised so far.

 

[RangerRay]

While this particular instance sounds minor, it may be a case of the last straw breaking the camel’s back. In my opinion, O’Toole should have turfed Sloan long ago after some of his more offensive utterances.