CPC Leadership Discussion 2020-21

[LittleBlackDevil]

Scheer took the popular vote but lost in the riding race with the Grand Duchy of Toronto giving most of it's seats to trudeau. Lost due to gerrymandering.

As well as the Maritimes which also have a number of seats disproportionate to their population.

I haven't followed this but have the CPC ever taken the opportunity to repair this when they've been in power?

 

[PMedMoe]

Scheer took the popular vote but lost in the riding race with the Grand Duchy of Toronto giving most of it's seats to trudeau. Lost due to gerrymandering.

Yeah, I'm sure Scheer's lack of popularity had nothing to do with anything.

 

[mariomike]

Scheer was personnally quite unpopular anywhere east of Manitoba and had a pretty pro-Alberta platform.

Gerrymandering is a pretty weak excuse for long term poor performance, not backed up by any actual evidence. We don't have the same political interference in the Elections Canada process that you see regularly in the US.

Anyone interested in reading more on the subject,

J.J. McCullough's websit

How Canada ended gerrymandering

Our neighbor to the north solved its gerrymandering problem decades ago.

www.vox.com

One person, one vote? In Canada, it’s not even close

Some ridings have fewer than 40,000 people. Others are closer to 160,000. Can anything be done to make them more equal?

www.thestar.com

From the above article,

Some votes are going to be substantially more powerful than others, especially those cast in the most remote rural ridings. And if you live in a city — especially one growing as rapidly as Greater Toronto — your vote is more likely to register as less than equal.

Take the electoral district of Labrador, for example. Only 27,197 live there, according to Elections Canada. Yes it is vast — you could fit all of the United Kingdom inside Labrador and still have room for Costa Rica. But compared to a typical riding in Brampton or Scarborough, where riding populations exceed the national average, and the numerical disparity is glaring: it will take about four times as many Toronto-area voters to get the same result, electing a single representative to Parliament.

Navy Pete said,

We don't have the same political interference in the Elections Canada process that you see regularly in the US.

As Brihard pointed out,

Difficult to easily compare voting trends vs results with a Westminster Parliamentary system, against a perpetual two-party republic where the presidential candidate must win an outright majority of something to get the spot.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Yeah, I'm sure Scheer's lack of popularity had nothing to do with anything.

I never said that. I don't have to produce a whole list of faults for your benefit.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Yeah, I'm sure Scheer's lack of popularity had nothing to do with anything.

I don't understand how your table has anything to do with Scheer winning the popular vote, but losing the seat count? Yes, he campaigned horribly and lost votes (and for the record I didn't like him), but that has nothing to do with the issue Fishbone raised....unless I'm missing something.

 

[PMedMoe]

I never said that. I don't have to produce a whole list of faults for your benefit.

I never implied that you did. I don't need a list of faults from you. What's your proof of gerrymandering?

 

[brihard]

Scheer took the popular vote but lost in the riding race with the Grand Duchy of Toronto giving most of it's seats to trudeau. Lost due to gerrymandering.

interestingly you spoke on the subject of popular vote in another thread a couple years ago...

In respect of the presidential election, there is no 'popular' vote that enters into the system or process.

Discussion of a 'popular' vote is a canard and a diversion and is irrelevant to the conversation of presidential elections, in the US.

Currently, it is mostly trotted out by hillary supporters and liberals that, three years later, can't accept their loss.

It carries zero weight and consequence. It's just a sound bite that means nothing and only tries to cloud the issue.

While you were speaking about the US election, I believe your same logic applies pretty flawlessly to the point at hand, substituting Canadian terminology as needed.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I have zero doubt that if trudeau thought he could get away with the latest US style election ploys, he would. Damn the electorate concerns. His
trudeau brand vision for Canada isn't complete yet.

interestingly you spoke on the subject of popular vote in another thread a couple years ago...



While you were speaking about the US election, I believe your same logic applies pretty flawlessly to the point at hand, substituting Canadian terminology as needed.

 

[brihard]

I have zero doubt that if trudeau thought he could get away with the latest US style election ploys, he would. Damn the electorate concerns. His
trudeau brand vision for Canada isn't complete yet.

In a discussion about the CPC leadership, that seems pretty irrelevant, and really just an attempt to distract from having your own potentially hypocritical opinion pointed out when the place on the political spectrum is reversed. It might be that you want to take this particular gripe to a thread about Trudeau or the LPC, because you’re pulling this one pretty far off topic.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Perhaps I was off base somewhat and didn't think things through enough. Either way, it's immaterial. The forum feeding frenzy has started, so I'll just swim away. Don't want to cause anyone any angst before the weekend.
Damn, I'm having trouble posting today. Apologies.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

In a discussion about the CPC leadership, that seems pretty irrelevant, and really just an attempt to distract from having your own potentially hypocritical opinion pointed out when the place on the political spectrum is reversed. It might be that you want to take this particular gripe to a thread about Trudeau or the LPC, because you’re pulling this one pretty far off topic.

good call.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

In a discussion about the CPC leadership, that seems pretty irrelevant, and really just an attempt to distract from having your own potentially hypocritical opinion pointed out when the place on the political spectrum is reversed. It might be that you want to take this particular gripe to a thread about Trudeau or the LPC, because you’re pulling this one pretty far off topic.

But I didn't say that about the most recent US election. Either way, it's immaterial. The forum feeding frenzy has started, so I'll just swim away. Don't want to cause anyone any angst before the weekend. Damn, I'm having trouble posting today. Apologies.

 

[brihard]

But I didn't say that about the most recent US election. Either way, it's immaterial. The forum feeding frenzy has started, so I'll just swim away. Don't want to cause anyone any angst before the weekend. Damn, I'm having trouble posting today. Apologies.

No angst on my part, just calling it as I see it. If your opinion on the subject of the popular vote vs distribution of electoral districts has taken a 180 in the past couple years, that’s completely fine. You just haven’t indicated that to be the case, so I figured I’d note it and see if you took the chance to clarify. You did something else instead.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Sorry. I was editing that post when you replied. Then it posted in the wrong spot. I don't know what's going with my posting today. Maybe time to,reboot my tablet. Anyway, here's the corrected response.

"
Perhaps I was off base somewhat and didn't think things through enough. Either way, it's immaterial. The forum feeding frenzy has started, so I'll just swim away. Don't want to cause anyone any angst before the weekend.
Damn, I'm having trouble posting today. Apologies.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

I think the PC's have (2) cards to play:
1. Get out ahead of "ending the lockdown" and campaign on the wrongness of having isolated and locked down the entire population to protect a very small vulnerable minority, and all the damage that caused.
2. Promote a "New Environmentalism" that focuses on real progress Canadians can see and feel. No more money for CO2 as long as China is belching the stuff out at rates that make Canada look trivial in comparison. Let's make a difference. Expand the national parks. Expanded the protected marine environments. Move money from buying CO2 credits to cleaning up our lakes and rivers. No more "Ecoli"-days closing our beaches. Large reforestation programs. Grants to municipalities to "green up" city parks and schoolyards. In particular, provide large numbers of maple trees all across the country. Then to show our global good will, out money into ocean clean up and sponsoring wildlife protection areas for threatened species. The PC's need Canadians to realize that spending billions of dollars on an invisible gas that is primarily plant food is silly when there are so many other more pressing issues.

Well, that would be my "swing for the fences" shot at it anyway.....

 

[Altair]

I think the PC's have (2) cards to play:
1. Get out ahead of "ending the lockdown" and campaign on the wrongness of having isolated and locked down the entire population to protect a very small vulnerable minority, and all the damage that caused.
2. Promote a "New Environmentalism" that focuses on real progress Canadians can see and feel. No more money for CO2 as long as China is belching the stuff out at rates that make Canada look trivial in comparison. Let's make a difference. Expand the national parks. Expanded the protected marine environments. Move money from buying CO2 credits to cleaning up our lakes and rivers. No more "Ecoli"-days closing our beaches. Large reforestation programs. Grants to municipalities to "green up" city parks and schoolyards. In particular, provide large numbers of maple trees all across the country. Then to show our global good will, out money into ocean clean up and sponsoring wildlife protection areas for threatened species. The PC's need Canadians to realize that spending billions of dollars on an invisible gas that is primarily plant food is silly when there are so many other more pressing issues.

Well, that would be my "swing for the fences" shot at it anyway.....

To your first point, that's all provincial.

To go after lockdowns is to go after the premiers, and I don't think a O'Toole Ford twitter battle helps either.

 

[PMedMoe]

Is it too much to ask that proper nouns be capitalized whether one deems it worthy or not?

 

[Good2Golf]

If O’Toole is having to defend himself from a moniker of ‘Liberal Lite,’ then the CPC might as well rip off the band-aid and spilt back into the Reform and PC.

Erin O'Toole says 'I didn't hide who I was' running for Conservative leader
Article Link​

OTTAWA - Erin O'Toole assured Conservative supporters that he never hid who he was in his bid to secure the party leadership, telling a high-profile conference on Saturday that the “true blue” campaign he ran to secure the party helm does reflect his true colours.

O'Toole fielded questions about his authenticity during an evening question-and-answer session that closed out a conference hosted by the Canada Strong and Free Network, formerly the Manning Centre.



Advertisement


He's being branded as “Liberal-lite” in some quarters, the same descriptor O'Toole once leveled at former rival and ex-parliamentarian Peter MacKay during last year's leadership race.

O'Toole, who during the contest pitched himself to party members as a “real Conservative,” said he finds those now making similar comments about him to be “humorous.”

(Rest of article at link)