CPC Leadership Discussion 2020-21

[OldSolduer]

Most members of this site know that "you don't have to attend" is translated as "you're in a world of crap if we don't see you there".

Exactly. Although I could care less if they attend or not, I am not impressed with the exclusionary tactics of that community when it comes to politicians and the police.

Its 2020 now and I think the various Pride communities have to realize that - but then again there's money to be made playing the "victim".

 

[mariomike]

I could care less if they attend or not,

Exactly.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Considering how the Pride organizers here treated the Vancouver PD (who have worked hard to be inclusive)  I would tell them to piss up a rope, until the Pride parade becomes more inclusive and less judgemental of others.

I've never been in a Pride Parade, but I've had an employee who is gay. And he and his partner have never been in a Pride Parade either. Except, I think, in New Orleans, because: Hell Yeah!

Me and my staff went to his wedding, and my wife and I signed the register as witnesses because we really wanted to, and we were honoured.

They had us over  for dinner parties frequently and 'Yay!' because they were real gourmets, and we had alot of fun. Heads up, I know other gay people who cook like me so I'm not virtue signalling here...

They hosted an annual party for gays and transsexuals at their house, which we attended regularly. No one there described themselves as 'LGBT2Q' etc ... they were just 'from Victoria', or whatever. There must have been a hundred people or more at these parties, all having a great time without being 'political' or otherwise creepy or self-entitled. On talking to these folks I developed a deep sense of my own incompetence: lots of these folks are simply brilliant, in a variety of ways.

Some of these people are Senior Officers and NCMs in the Canadian Armed Forces, and I was glad to be able to count myself as one of their professional colleagues. I was sad to hear that some of them felt that they would never be promoted because of their sexual orientation which, even though they didn't flaunt it, they felt some had used against them.

We had a great time. Always. I learned alot, and I my general impression is that the more we force the giant 'Pride Parade' shaming thing, the less service we are doing to this amazing group of people.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

i find that the Gays who are proud of what they do in life and identify as a solider, teacher, sailor, writer , etc, etc who happens to be gay are the happy bunch and have less need in pushing it on other people, particularly other people who aren't threatened by them being gay. That was the equality that the majority wanted, to be able to marry their partner, share benefits and not be physically attacked for it. Most are realistic enough to know the world is imperfect.

 

[mariomike]

Most members of this site know that "you don't have to attend" is translated as "you're in a world of shit if we don't see you there".

Not with this voter. 

Parades can backfire on politicians.

eg: At the Raptors parade, the prime minister and mayor were cheered. Doug was booed.

 

[FJAG]

Got another new one endorsed by Campaign Life Coalition.

Leslyn Lewis, Toronto Lawyer, Running For Conservative Party Leadership
She has been endorsed by the Campaign Life Coalition.

OTTAWA — Toronto lawyer Leslyn Lewis has become the first woman approved to run for the federal Conservative party leadership, saying she wants the job to bring courage and compassion back to politics.

...

She declined an interview request Wednesday, as she has most mainstream-media queries in recent weeks as she’s been building her profile among party activists and with third-party organizations, including the Campaign Life Coalition.

The pro-life group has endorsed her, and she also counts among her supporters Charles McVety, a prominent Christian activist who has called her a “breath of fresh air” as a strong Christian woman who is anti-abortion and in support of traditional marriage.

McVety and the Campaign Life Coalition come from different wings within the socially conservative right in Canada, a faction of the Conservative movement that has had major influence on leadership campaigns in past years.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/leslyn-lewis-conservative-leadership-race_ca_5e44500ac5b61b84d3443705?utm_hp_ref=ca-homepage

:cheers:

 

[mariomike]

Got another new one endorsed by Campaign Life Coalition.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/leslyn-lewis-conservative-leadership-race_ca_5e44500ac5b61b84d3443705?utm_hp_ref=ca-homepage

:cheers:

Ran and lost by a minus ( - ) 33 % margin in Scarborough - Rouge Park ( Toronto ) as the Conservative candidate in the 2015 federal election.

https://www.elections.ca/Scripts/vis/PastResults?L=e&ED=35097&EV=99&EV_TYPE=6&PC=&PROV=&PROVID=&MAPID=&QID=11&PAGEID=28&TPAGEID=&PD=&STAT_CODE_ID=-1

The pro-life group has endorsed her, and she also counts among her supporters Charles McVety, a prominent Christian activist who has called her a “breath of fresh air” as a strong Christian woman who is anti-abortion

Opinions vary. But, a bit of history on the subject. Some of us may remember the late Chief Coroner of Ontario Morton Shulman,

In the Sixties, abortion could be legally performed only to save the life of the woman, so there were practically no legal abortions. He stated that the pregnant daughters of the rich were sent to reliable physicians who did abortions for cash. He estimated that these physicians did twenty to thirty abortions per week. Women who were not rich were left to perform an abortion on themselves or go to what he called a "nurse" abortionist. Their method was commonly pumping Lysol into the woman's womb. The mortality rate was high and the infection rate over 50%. He added, "By the time I became Chief Coroner, I had had the unpleasant experience of seeing the bodies of some dozens of young women who had died as a result of these amateur abortions."

Chief Coroner Morton Shulman decided to publicize deaths from illegal abortions. He instructed his coroners to call a public inquest into each abortion death. He describes one case that he believes was the turning point, that of 34-year-old Lottie Leanne Clarke, a mother of three children, who died of a massive infection in 1964 after an illegal abortion in spite of medical treatment and antibiotics. At the inquest into her death, the jury recommended that the laws about therapeutic abortion be revised. Dr. Shulman added that a federal government committee should review the question of abortion and the law. Newspapers published editorials recommending the reform of the abortion law. In 1965, the Minister of Justice, Guy Favreau, wrote to Dr. Shulman that the recommendation would be considered in the program to amend the Criminal Code. The eventual amendment closely followed the recommendations of the coroners' juries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Canada#Chief_Coroner_Schulman

and in support of traditional marriage.

Guess we won't be seeing her in the Pride parade. 

 

[Journeyman]

Guess we won't be seeing her in the Pride parade. 

I don't imagine we'll be seeing her in Parliament.

Another addition to the disarray of the Conservatives, ignoring the moderate centrist voters by appealing to the further right, which tends to only bleed off votes to the Libs/NDP (or abstain).  :not-again:

        :2c:

 

[a_majoor]

I don't imagine we'll be seeing her in Parliament.

Another addition to the disarray of the Conservatives, ignoring the moderate centrist voters by appealing to the further right, which tends to only bleed off votes to the Libs/NDP (or abstain).  :not-again:

        :2c:

While this is conventional wisdom, I wonder how true this actually is? The rise of populism around the world is showing that the ole "left/right" divide that we grew up with don't really seem valid anymore, and appeals to voters now need to take many different factors into account.

The other issue is given Canada's regionalism and the re opening of old issues and wounds by the Liberals since 2015 (resulting in the rebirth of Western Separatism, Quebec separatism and a Populist government in Ontario) is probably more divisive for the Conservatives, since the issues which power Wexit, the Ford government, the CAQ and Bloc Quebecois are far different and even at cross purposes. I don't see how these very different issues and voter sets can be harnessed in a national movement or electoral campaign.

 

[Remius]

I don't imagine we'll be seeing her in Parliament.

Another addition to the disarray of the Conservatives, ignoring the moderate centrist voters by appealing to the further right, which tends to only bleed off votes to the Libs/NDP (or abstain).  :not-again:

        :2c:

Yep.  Can't argue with that.

Hopefully they can get through this without too many self inflicted wounds. 

 

[Remius]

While this is conventional wisdom, I wonder how true this actually is? The rise of populism around the world is showing that the ole "left/right" divide that we grew up with don't really seem valid anymore, and appeals to voters now need to take many different factors into account.

The other issue is given Canada's regionalism and the re opening of old issues and wounds by the Liberals since 2015 (resulting in the rebirth of Western Separatism, Quebec separatism and a Populist government in Ontario) is probably more divisive for the Conservatives, since the issues which power Wexit, the Ford government, the CAQ and Bloc Quebecois are far different and even at cross purposes. I don't see how these very different issues and voter sets can be harnessed in a national movement or electoral campaign.

I would argue that those regional issue are economical in nature.  Also as much as we can say that Ontario voted in a populist government, it was more about ousting a stale and financially irresponsible one.  Conservatives could develop a real fiscal platform, drop the whole social conservatism thing.  Talk about jobs and prosperity.  Getting back to good fiscal health and creating a middle power sphere of influence.  But if they ignore issues like the environment and don't get with the times on other social issues they will implode again.  And next election Trudeau won't have the same scandals hanging over him (mind you there is still time for that but even then they screwed it up last time). 

 

[Journeyman]

I don't see how these very different issues and voter sets can be harnessed in a national movement or electoral campaign.

Mostly agree.  However, the system we're currently using can't just be wished away;  nation-wide parties have always had to contend with differing regional/local priorities. 

I have no magic solution.  :dunno:

 

[mariomike]

Conservatives could develop a real fiscal platform, drop the whole social conservatism thing. 

1 ) Nonetheless, over 70 per cent of the population now lives in a metropolitan area, and that proportion is growing. Not surprisingly, they aren’t voting Tory.

2 ) It is no longer a national political party, but a western alienation movement.

3 ) We are not only growing more urban, but we are becoming less white and less straight. The role of women in the workplace and household continues to evolve.

4 ) Canadians will embrace a politician they trust, someone who is self-evidently honest, someone who can still blush.

5 ) The vast majority of the jack-assery is coming from the CPC benches

6 ) Believe in climate change.

7 ) Now, it eschews market mechanisms like a carbon tax in favour of half-baked incentives, regulations and subsidies.

8 ) I want the next leader of the CPC to not care who I sleep with, what I smoke or what gender I choose.

9 ) Andrew Scheer ran on a very vague platform. Doug Ford didn’t have one at all.

10 ) They love to revel in the cheers of their hard core base, and to point fingers at other conservatives who aren’t as conservative as them. This will only keep you in opposition.

11 ) The CPC is not popular among female voters.
https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/ten-things-that-would-guarantee-the-new-cpc-leader-is-a-winner/

, the Ford government,

Unpopular at the provincial level,
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ACYBGNSAgN894Z8KriG5RDUD8d6r4AONnw%3A1581608566170&ei=dm5FXoyGCpCRggfLsJuwCw&q=%22doug+ford%22+popularity&oq=%22doug+ford%22+popularity&gs_l=psy-ab.12...0.0..395928...0.0..0.0.0.......0......gws-wiz.goSCUfmSWww&ved=0ahUKEwiMmYqG787nAhWQiOAKHUvYBrYQ4dUDCAo#spf=1581608965140

and powers officially removed at the municipal level.

 

[PuckChaser]

You're taking tips from how the CPC should be led from the husband of Catherine McKenna?  :rofl:

 

[mariomike]

PuckChaser thought you were Misleading and noted "Partisan hitpiece from the spouse of a senior Liberal party member"

You're taking tips from how the CPC should be led from the husband of Catherine McKenna?

Original Post,

I rarely find anything of value in MacLean's (or from Scott Gilmore for that matter) but this one actually has some good points:

To see his ten points, go here:

https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/ten-things-that-would-guarantee-the-new-cpc-leader-is-a-winner/

:cheers:

FJAG said, "has some good points".

Considering they lost the last two elections, which points do you disagree with?

Conservatives could develop a real fiscal platform, drop the whole social conservatism thing. 

Well said.

 

[dapaterson]

And in the category of phrases the media has been waiting to say for years, Baird is out.

 

[FJAG]

...
FJAG said, "has some good points".

Considering they lost the last two elections, which points do you disagree with?
...

None of them, actually.

:cheers:

 

[Jarnhamar]

Ah yes, that list.

1 ) Nonetheless, over 70 per cent of the population now lives in a metropolitan area, and that proportion is growing. Not surprisingly, they aren’t voting Tory.
Yea. Good for them. I wouldn't want to live in a metropolitan city.

2 ) It is no longer a national political party, but a western alienation movement.
Good chuck of Ontario voted CPC, plus they won the popular vote.

3 ) We are not only growing more urban, but we are becoming less white and less straight. The role of women in the workplace and household continues to evolve.
Meaning?

4 ) Canadians will embrace a politician they trust, someone who is self-evidently honest, someone who can still blush.
Like someone who sexually assaults women, runs around with blackface and gets caught violating ethics rules. Something to be proud of there.

5 ) The vast majority of the jack-assery is coming from the CPC benches
Like, trying to coerce a justice minister to do political favors for one of the most corrupt companies in Canada and banned by the world bank?

6 ) Believe in climate change.
Has the conservative party officially said climate change doesn't exist?

7 ) Now, it eschews market mechanisms like a carbon tax in favour of half-baked incentives, regulations and subsidies.
Carbon tax is garbage.

8 ) I want the next leader of the CPC to not care who I sleep with, what I smoke or what gender I choose.
So you can smoke crack cocaine and call yourself a trans pan sexual daywalker vampire. That's cool.

9 ) Andrew Scheer ran on a very vague platform. Doug Ford didn’t have one at all.
And neither sexually assaulted a woman or ran around making a joke at black peoples expense.

10 ) They love to revel in the cheers of their hard core base, and to point fingers at other conservatives who aren’t as conservative as them. This will only keep you in opposition.
Jesus. Have you ever seen Liberals go at each other? Their you're not progressive enough!! attack mode?

11 ) The CPC is not popular among female voters.
Not according to Ipsos or Abacus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2019_Canadian_federal_election#Voter_demographics

**Edited the colour for a very special poster 

 

[mariomike]

Jarnhamar thought you were Misleading and noted "Sorry brother, thats a shitty article"

Thanks. FJAG posted the original. Reply #210.
https://army.ca/forums/threads/131363/post-1596310.html#msg1596310

Considering they lost the last two elections, which points do you disagree with?

None of them, actually.

:cheers:

Ah yes, that list.

Have to wait for the next election to see who is right. 

"I wouldn't want to live in a metropolitan city."

That's where the jobs are, especially for anyone who wants to join the emergency services. They come in from far and wide to apply.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Ahh, I missed the original post reference. Sorry. We should make an option to rescind +/- millpoints.

But that said I thought posting millpoints comments in the discussion thread was considered bad form?