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Conflict in Darfur, Sudan - The Mega Thread

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A letter of mine in the Globe and Mail:
http://www.rbcinvest.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/LAC/20070808/LETTERS08-1/Letters/commentLetters/commentLetters/6/6/10/

Off the Darfur hook?

By MARK COLLINS

Wednesday, August 8, 2007 – Page A16

Ottawa -- Rob Huebert's analysis of whether or not Canada should make a substantial troop contribution to the United Nations mission in Darfur (Want To Help? Sure, But Consider All The Costs Of Sending Troops To Darfur - Aug. 7)
http://www.rbcinvest.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/LAC/20070807/COSUDAN07/Headlines/headdex/headdexComment/4/4/6/

rests entirely on a false premise. The UN force is to be made up predominantly of African troops, and Sudan has a veto over which countries can participate. Khartoum certainly would not accept any substantial ground-force contributions from the West; in fact, any Western assistance would consist of headquarters, support and logistics personnel.

So there is no question of Canada's being forced to choose between having troops in Darfur or Afghanistan, as Mr. Huebert suggests. Whether we have the military capability to provide the much more limited type of assistance in Darfur is another matter.

The title is the Globe's--mine was "Western troops not wanted in Darfur".

Mark
Ottawa

 
More facts:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/08/AR2007080800309.html

A large number of countries from Africa, several from Asia, one from the Middle East and none from the West [emphasis added] were included in a preliminary list of nations that have offered military and police personnel for the 26,000-strong joint African Union-United Nations force, issued by the U.N. Peacekeeping Department and the new Department of Field Support...

A large number of countries from Africa, several from Asia, one from the Middle East and none from the West were included in a preliminary list of nations that have offered military and police personnel for the 26,000-strong joint African Union-United Nations force, issued by the U.N. Peacekeeping Department and the new Department of Field Support...

Mark
Ottawa
 
A guest-post at Daimnation!:

Lies, damned lies, statistics...
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/009949.html

Mark
Ottawa
 
Link to original article

The Sand Trap of Darfur

After four years of delay and neglect, the United Nations has finally authorized a Chapter VII mission to the troubled Darfur region of the Sudan. As most readers are aware, this is the scene of an ongoing genocide perpetrated against the Black African inhabitants of the region by the predominately Islamic Arab population of the Sudan. Complex forces are at work here, ranging from shifting demographics within the region and the rising demand for the limited supply of water, to the desire of outside nations (particularly China) for the oil wealth of the Sudan. All have worked against the international community's ability to take effective action in the Darfur region.

Arabization is another huge problem that has not been discussed in the media. In the intervening four years, while hundreds of thousands of people have been displaced in Darfur, Sudan has simultaneously been encouraging Muslims from other countries to move into Darfur. The idea is to Arabize the entire region of Darfur, and effectively replace Darfur's traditional population with a Muslim one.

The authorization of a Chapter VII mission by the United Nations is no reason to celebrate. The mission is limited by the restrictions on the use of force that have effectively hobbled many UN missions. There is no authority to directly challenge or change the government of the Sudan, or disarm the offending militias and brigands who have perpetrated the slaughter.

In addition to the political limitations of the mission, Darfur is a very inhospitable place. Geographical isolation, harsh climate, limited infrastructure, long supply lines, and an uncooperative Sudanese government will make supplying and supporting any sort of mission in Darfur extremely challenging, to say the least.

Canadian politicians and activists have clamoured for years for Canada to “do something” about Darfur. The Ruxted Group is sure that these same politicians, academics and journalists will now use the existence of a Chapter VII authorization to demand Canada shift its focus from the unfinished business of Afghanistan to the unstarted business of Darfur. While Ruxted is moved by the plight of the people of Darfur, we must point out the differences in the two missions so the people and Government of Canada can have an informed debate as to what sort of support (if any) we should provide this mission.

In Afghanistan, the Canadian Forces are engaged as part of a multifaceted international mission to rebuild a shattered society. We are working with traditional NATO partners with whom we have long relationships and experience, and with whom our forces are well accustomed to working. The non-NATO partners of ISAF include Australia, another long standing ally and partner of Canada, and various Eastern European nations eager to become closer partners of NATO, the EU and other western institutions. These nation’s armies already share many technical and cultural affinities with their ISAF partners. We can take advantage of the superb logistical capabilities provided by many of our partners, and use the local infrastructure, including seaports in Pakistan and a system of highways between Afghanistan and Pakistan, and within Kandahar province itself to support our mission.

In Darfur, any participants in a Chapter VII mission will be part of a large heterogeneous force composed of forces drawn from various African Union nations, and presumably bolstered by large contingents from other developing nations like Bangladesh. While their soldiers may be individually brave and determined, their military forces are poorly trained and ill equipped for the challenge. They do not have the command or communications capabilities to operate large multinational coalitions. They do not have the logistical skills or equipment to operate at extended ranges or for prolonged times from their bases, and they do not have the right equipment to send into an area with limited infrastructure and severe climate. There is no plan to rebuild the destroyed villages, restructure the political system or otherwise remove the causes of the conflict. As in Afghanistan, the enemy can resort to small scale sniping and bombing attacks which might not defeat the force militarily, but may erode the political will to continue at home.

While there is no doubt that Canada could provide some of the elements lacking in the elements of a proposed Chapter VII force in Darfur, we are unable to support any substantial Canadian force in Darfur. Decades of neglect have deprived the Canadian forces of the strategic air or sea lift for our own forces, much less the vastly larger force envisioned for Darfur. Even the recently announced purchase of C-17 transport jets and the upgrade of the C-130 Hercules fleet would only just meet Canada’s needs, and the completion of the conversion to these new airplanes is still several years down the road. The naval leg of our support structure is more than a decade away, even if Gen. Hillier's “big honking ship” plans were to be started today.

Aside from the issue of supporting such a force, Ruxted must ask how our intervention in Darfur would benefit Canada? Afghanistan has provided a safe haven for terrorist groups that have threatened Canada and killed thousands of innocents throughout the world. Stabilizing Afghanistan deprives terrorist organizations like Al Qaeda of their safe havens and discourages other failing states from becoming terrorist havens. The creation of a stable Afghan state ruled by a legitimate, consensual government will also help dampen the cycles of violence which are rippling through the Islamic world and spilling out into other areas. As a leading middle power, our efforts in Afghanistan help protect us and stabilize central Asia, maintaining the conditions required for the peace and prosperity of literally billions of people.

Darfur offers no such rationale for Canadian efforts. The Government of the Sudan is hostile to the endeavour, and can be expected to obstruct the efforts of the Chapter VII mission. Since the Sudan has the support of China, any attempts to increase the UN presence and effectiveness in Darfur are likely to be unsuccessful, especially after the end of the 2008 Olympics. Even without these difficulties, with no plan to rebuild the region or restructure the political environment, there is literally nothing to stop the genocide from resuming once the force is withdrawn. With the mission hobbled by the terms of the resolution, there would be no "exit point" from Darfur, no set of conditions to define when the mission is complete.

Ruxted contends that Canada is a leading middle power, capable of effecting change in the world. This is only possible when Canadians choose to use their wealth and privilege in well-considered operations, in concert with our friends and partners, for clearly defined goals. Afghanistan meets all these conditions, and should continue to be the focus of Canadian attention, military, development and diplomatic efforts to 2009 and beyond. Darfur meets none of these conditions, and would end up being a sand trap for Canadian resources and efforts.

This sounds cruel and hardhearted, but it is not. Ruxted is appalled by the suffering of the people of Darfur, but understands that Canada is unable to make a meaningful military contribution. This is especially true given the toothless Security Council resolution and the dreadful combination of terrain, climate and distance in the mission area. Wishful thinking is not a firm base on which to conduct foreign policy or military operations; pretending that the Canadian Forces can make a difference in Darfur is wishful thinking taken to ridiculous extremes. There are other, non-military steps we can take. These need to be examined without the usual self-serving clamour of the chattering classes, and if feasible all our energy directed to these ends.

To call for Canadian blood to be spilled in the sands of Darfur in an open ended mission for no result is perhaps the greatest folly our politicians, academics and journalists could commit. The Ruxted Group asks all Canadians to look at the evidence and weigh Canada’s abilities and interests dispassionately. Only then can we discuss what Canada can do for the people of Darfur.
 
Ruxted: I'm afraid you're taking a Canadian straw-man rather too seriously:

Facts about Darfur
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/009923.html

Darfur: I sure hope I was wrong
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/009891.html

But then:

Darfur: New Air Expeditionary Wing (AEW) might make sense
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/08/darfur-new-air-expeditionary-wing-aew.html

Mark
Ottawa
 
Infidel-6 said:
Greymatter -- Chpt 7 is not "PeaceKeeping" but PeaceMaking -- think Somalia.

IMHO to me fighting in Africa for a white nation is lose-lose.
  To be effective one will need to kill a lot of blacks which regardless of the fact they are de facto terrorists does not play well in the media.
Think the Canadian populace is fickle on Afghan? I give it 60 days from the day a CF solider put his boots on the ground (IF)

Infidel-6, I wasnt talking about the Chapter specifically, but more about the lack of awareness and fear of consequences that many politicians and government officials have about most any operation regardless of Chapter it works under.   
 
Fisking Michael Byers--a letter sent Aug. 18 to the Globe and Mail but not printed:

Prof. Michael Byers, in his interview with Michael Valpy ('This is Stephen Harper's war', August 18),
http://www.rbcinvest.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/LAC/20070818/SHUFFLE18/Comment/comment/comment/2/2/11/

is either terribly ill-informed about the role the United Nations, and German, troops have played in the Congo--or else he is being very economical with the truth. First Prof. Byers says that "A couple of years ago, a very large UN peacekeeping force brought relative peace to the Congo..." Not quite. The force, MONUC, has been in the Congo since Novermber 1999 and is still there. While there may be relative peace in the Congo the situation is still unstable so the force will likely stay for some time to come. And, by the way, MONUC has sustained 109 fatalities.

Prof. Byers then says "...there was a core, 2,000-soldier contribution from Germany." Wrong again. MONUC has had no German troops. There were German troops in the Congo but they were only there from July to November 2006 and they were not part of the UN force. Rather they were part of a separate European Union force that was authorized by the UN Security Council to deploy briefly to support MONUC during the period before and after Congo's July and October 2006 national elections. The EU force totalled some 2,400 personnel of which only 780 were German. Moreover not all the EU troops were actually in the Congo; many were stationed in neighbouring Gabon on standby.

Prof. Byers goes on to claim that the German troops played an important role in training developing country troops with the UN force and turning them into much better soldiers. That is simply false. The German troops with the EU force had no such role during their short presence in the Congo.

Given the complete inaccuracy of what Prof. Byers says about what the Germans did in the Congo, it is astounding that he should hold up that fictional role as a model for what he thinks Canada should be doing in Darfur. He also ignores the simple fact that the Sudanese government will not allow any large contingent of Western troops into the country as part of the UN force for Darfur that the UN Security Council recently authorized.

One cannot but be amazed that one so fast and loose with facts is employed as a professor of global politics and international law at the University of British Columbia.

References:
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/missions/monuc/facts.html
http://www.consilium.europa.eu/cms3_fo/showPage.asp?id=1091&lang=EN
http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db900SID/EVOD-6QQGL9?OpenDocument
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2084630,00.html
http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/diplo/en/Aussenpolitik/RegionaleSchwerpunkte/Afrika/Kongo-Einsatz.html
http://www.rbcinvest.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/LAC/20070808/LETTERS08-1/Letters/commentLetters/commentLetters/6/6/10/

Mark
Ottawa


 
The Ruxted Group said:
Aside from the issue of supporting such a force, Ruxted must ask how our intervention in Darfur would benefit Canada? Afghanistan has provided a safe haven for terrorist groups that have threatened Canada and killed thousands of innocents throughout the world. Stabilizing Afghanistan deprives terrorist organizations like Al Qaeda of their safe havens and discourages other failing states from becoming terrorist havens. The creation of a stable Afghan state ruled by a legitimate, consensual government will also help dampen the cycles of violence which are rippling through the Islamic world and spilling out into other areas. As a leading middle power, our efforts in Afghanistan help protect us and stabilize central Asia, maintaining the conditions required for the peace and prosperity of literally billions of people.

Your argument, here, is logically flawed. Your reasoning is that the mission in Afghanistan benefits Canada because they have "threatened Canada and killed thousands of innocents throughout the world." Threatening isn't anything to worry about, because terrorism relies on threats to achieve it's goal of terrorizing peoples. It's nothing new, and certainly doesn't justify an intervention. So, threats aside, the mission in Afghanistan benefits Canada more then a mission in Sudan would because of "thousands of innocents killed throughout the world." This is where your reasoning is in error. The conflict in the Darfur region of Sudan has, since 2003, claimed the lives of over 450,000 people (UN estimate, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/10/AR2007041001775.html).

You state that the mission in Afghanistan is of more tangible benefit to Canada then a mission in Sudan would be. The argument about security is valid, however do you not think that the crisis in Sudan poses a threat to the stability of the African continent? The massive number of displaced persons caused by the conflict is bound to destabilize the neighbouring countries of Egypt and Ethiopia, both border-countries of the region you carlessly describe as the "Islamic world." (Is India, merely a thousand kilometres from Afghanistan, part of the Islamic world?)

Your humanitarian, liberal internationalist argument about the plight of the Afghan people in favour of the Sudanese people is flawed because there is a greater, direct threat to the life of the people of Darfur. Your argument about security is valid, but not does not substantiate your position in light of the equally valid security concerns posed by the genocide in Darfur.
 
BKells said:
Your humanitarian, liberal internationalist argument about the plight of the Afghan people in favour of the Sudanese people is flawed because there is a greater, direct threat to the life of the people of Darfur. Your argument about security is valid, but not does not substantiate your position in light of the equally valid security concerns posed by the genocide in Darfur.

I disagree, the only reason the same kind of genocide is not happening in Afghanistan is because we are already there.

Make no mistake, we would be declaring war on a sovereign country, one that China just might side with.....................can you live with the repercussions?
 
BKells said:
in light of the equally valid security concerns posed by the genocide in Darfur


In all honesty I fail to see what risk there is to Canada's security in terms of the Genocide. other then offending our western sensibilities and risking how we like to feel that we are the "Good" guys. I am not saying that the mission is any less deserving that is not my call to make, though my opinion is that it is not but that's a personal opinion based on the entire African continent honestly. Now if you are going to argue the Islamification of the Darfur region and the Sudan in specific  as a risk to the security of Canada then I can understand but that's a bold call to make because then you are inferring that the Islamic religion is a risk to the Security of the World. It would be a postion I agree with but I don't think that is what you meant.
 
BKells said:
Threatening isn't anything to worry about, because terrorism relies on threats to achieve it's goal of terrorizing peoples.

You can't place the threats out of the terrorism context...threatening IS terrorism!  Force or threats of force to compel an action by individuals or by governments, paraphrasing several UN Conventions against Terrorism (http://www.unodc.org/unodc/terrorism_conventions.html)

These offences are implicitly included in the Canadian Criminal Code under legislation enacted 18 Dec 2001
"... the Criminal Code (is) amended to establish provisions aimed at disabling and dismantling the activities of terrorist groups and those who support them. These include:

defining "terrorist activity" in the Criminal Code as an action that takes place either within or outside of Canada that:
is an offence under one of the UN anti-terrorism conventions and protocols; or..."

So don't go saying that threats are nothing to worry about; an organization that has explicitly threatened our nation to achieve a political goal is a terrorist organization, one that has killed our soldiers, our allies soldiers, and civilians of any number of nations.

PMT


 
Bad things happen to good people all the time. The US and its allies do not have unlimited resources and cannot intervene in every case of genocide. Its always seems to be the defenseless people being victimized. Perhaps we should at least provide arms so these people can protect themselves. Perhaps just the threat might be enough to end some of this suffering. Or else the UN should hire PMC's and contract out the work.
 
BKells said:
Your humanitarian, liberal internationalist argument about the plight of the Afghan people in favour of the Sudanese people is flawed

Oooohhh.  Someone's got college.

Other than poking fun at the fancy talk I think Mr Kells is basically on the money.  This is a weak article on Darfur, especially when it tries to condemn it while pumping Afghanistan at the same time.  I mean, don't go to Darfur because it is "a very inhospitable place" with "geographical isolation, harsh climate, limited infrastructure, long supply lines, and an uncooperative Sudanese government will make supplying and supporting any sort of mission in Darfur extremely challenging, to say the least."  That description seems to describe a place that starts with "A" and ends with an "-fghanistan".  As Mr. Kells points out, there isn't much one can say in defence of the mission in Afghanistan that isn't applicable in Sudan (see below) aside from the fact that ABCA is cool, NATO is alright, and the UN sucks; which Ruxted is apt to point out (I think is a key point for us to consider).  Afghanistan and Iraq are incredibly difficult missions for us in the West; Sudan would be another one and I think we can all agree it would be an unmitigated disaster under the UN.  The ABCA/NATO could simply bomb the bad guys out of Khartoum and go in with a more aggressive mandate, but with two wars on our hands, do you think we want another one (especially the Americans)?

The reason I roll my eyes (like this  ::)) when some expert from the left brings up Darfur is that they use it to attack the Afghanistan mission and/or the Canadian government.  In doing this, these donkies completely miss the fact that going into Sudan would be no different than going into Afghanistan.  I suspect it would be worse as every loonie in Egypt and the larger Middle East will quit Iraq and head down to Sudan to earn their 72 virgins.  Let's see:

Isolated corner of Islam - Afghanistan check; Sudan check.

Islamist government implementing Sharia - Afghanistan check; Sudan check.

Civil War between rival ethnic groups - Afghanistan check; Sudan check.

Massive civilian displacement and death - Afghanistan check; Sudan check (I'm not going to do a body count because numbers are irrelevant).

Presence of support (in some way) for extremist Islamist ideology/groups - Afghanistan check; Sudan check.

Proximity to an ideological center if militant Islam - Afghanistan check (Pakistan); Sudan check (Egypt).

Anyone remember bin Ladin and Co.'s prior address?
 
The one key difference between Darfur and Afghanistan is location. While Darfur can (and probably is) a catalyst to destabilize neighbouring African nations, the ripple effect is quite limited on a global scale.

Afghanistan, on the other hand, is bracketed by Iran, the 'Stans, China, India and Pakistan, and the 'Stans are part of Russia's "Near Beyond". Ripple effects in Afghanistan impact directly on 3 nuclear powers, one potential nuclear power and indirectly on yet another. Afghanistan also sits near the seams of several of Huntington's "Civilizations", several sects of Islam, and over two billion people between China and India alone. Just based on those factors, devoting resources to Afghanistan has a far higher ROI than any amount of resources devoted to Darfur.

We need to make choices, and the choices we make need to be based on logic and reason. While genocide is terrible wherever it occurs, the highest priorities lie with looking after our own interests first and foremost, and stabilizing a pivot point between hostile and nuclear armed civilizations should certainly take a far higher priority than almost anything else.
 
Peopel are ignoring the fact that the Sudanese government will simply not accept substantial units of ground troops from any Western nation as part of the hybrid UN/AU force.  So all talk about such a major Canadian role is utterly unreal--unless someone is proposing that Canada invade Sudan on our own (no other Western country would be prepared to join us).  See:

Facts about Darfur
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/009923.html

As for the number of dead in Darfur, see:

Lies, damned lies, statistics...
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/009949.html

Mark
Ottawa




 
Is invading a country for the purpose of protecting civilians without precedent? FRY was such a case. There is a multitude of literature (see: Responsibility to Protect) which argues that a country's sovereignty is forfeit once it commits acts of genocide and other such atrocities upon its own peoples; moreover, it is our duty to intervene in such a circumstance.
 
BKells: I do urge you to read the links above.  So Canada does it alone? 

Mark
Ottawa
 
I'm all for invading Sudan with PMC's, this Iraqi gig is looking shaky after the 08 election in the US.

On a serious note now - it would be worse than either Iraq or Afghanistan.
In Iraq as much as we dont like it the majority voted and elected their guy when we tossed out the old, we faired slightly better in Afghanistan as our guy got elected. But both are areas which will require major efforts still.

In Sudan we will be forced to oust the Sudanese gov't (now wait - aren't people bitching at us for this "war of agression" stuff already?) and the resulting quagmire will be unfathomable - since we woudl then have to forceable partition the Darfur area from the rest of Sudan, equipt an effective army there - and then hope that it does not decide to get some payback, and as we see daily in Iraq, (and last time I looked BigRed and I are about the only ones capable of giving the birds eye view from here) when the apple cart upsets and the downtrodden get power - then they tend to ensure it cant happen again - simply by killing as many of the former opressors as possible.

Its got secular nigthmare and islamofacist disaster all written down in advance.  Now since we see the fatc that pretty much everyone but the ABCA nations dont pull their weight in Afghanistan (and Canada noticeably vacant from Iraq) - who would do the work?

Admittedly I think the only logical force IF the powers that be, where to decided something has to be done, would be BlackWater and their Greystone TCN army.  The "do'er" nations are tapped out with Iraq and Afghanistan, and none of the EU will help, even in their backdoor of FRY they relied on NATO (cough the US Army cough) to do the heavy work.

I think it should be done from a moral standpoint - but then we will be kicking doors all over Africa for the forseeable future.  If YOU can mobile the public support fine - but I dont support the cut and run method espoused by some in the Left's wings - since as we have seen in Afghanistan - when the going gets tough (and it will be tough) the Left is out complaining about the warmongering Right, ignoring that they where part and parcel of the decision to act intially...
 
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