CMMA - replacing the CP140 Aurora

[dapaterson]

New Zealand abolished their fighter force a number of years ago. AFAIK they have not rebuilt it.

 

[YZT580]

New Zealand abolished their fighter force a number of years ago. AFAIK they have not rebuilt it.

sorta makes sense. They are far enough from any potential airborne threat that any attack would come from carrier based forces and a ground based artillery network would easily negate that threat. They aren't likely to initiate any offensive actions on their own but would work in concert with others so transport and sub hunters, convoy protection etc. should be the strengths that they bring to any coalition.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

sorta makes sense. They are far enough from any potential airborne threat that any attack would come from carrier based forces and a ground based artillery network would easily negate that threat. They aren't likely to initiate any offensive actions on their own but would work in concert with others so transport and sub hunters, convoy protection etc. should be the strengths that they bring to any coalition.

NZ got rid of their fighter force after they figured out they were spending all of their time in Australia, effectively being the RAAF aggressor sqn. The A4s were getting tired and they did not want to spend the money to buy F16s.

 

[Good2Golf]

NZ got rid of their fighter force after they figured out they were spending all of their time in Australia, effectively being the RAAF aggressor sqn. The A4s were getting tired and they did not want to spend the money to buy F16s.

Yeah, the A4 ‘Scooter’ was only marginally more modern than the P-80/T-33…

 

[MTShaw]

It strikes me that in someways that the P8 would be a side grade. Also, the P8 might have upgrade problems. It is so full of electronics that the thing doesn’t have doors for the landing gear. Would be nice for our current plane to carry some anti-shipping missiles though.

 

[Good2Golf]

It strikes me that in someways that the P8 would be a side grade. Also, the P8 might have upgrade problems. It is so full of electronics that the thing doesn’t have doors for the landing gear. Would be nice for our current plane to carry some anti-shipping missiles though.

Side grade to a P-3 variant?

What system(s) would pose the issue for upgrade? Upgrade how much? You know there are doors for the landing gear, right? The gear isn’t just the wheels. The wheels have been uncovered on 737s for 55+ years…worked so far and haven’t restricted onboard systems.

Definitely agree with you that we shouldn’t have gone to such lengths to decommission the hard points on the CP-140 that would have otherwise supported Harpoon (or eqvt) employment.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I’m curious what upgrade problems are expected. Generally speaking, things that go in avionics racks are getting smaller not bigger.

The fleet still has the wing pylons and they’ve been put on since ASLEP but they aren’t fitted and working. The “Canadian” way; I wouldn’t be surprised if we paid companies to remove the spare tire from COTS fleets.

Just to note, VX-1 and 20 were launching Harpoons off of P-8 long before we had a working Block 4…2013 for 20. We weren’t even Block 3 back then.

https://www.navair.navy.mil/node/20271

 

[MTShaw]

Side grade to a P-3 variant?

What system(s) would pose the issue for upgrade? Upgrade how much? You know there are doors for the landing gear, right? The gear isn’t just the wheels. The wheels have been uncovered on 737s for 55+ years…worked so far and haven’t restricted onboard systems.

Definitely agree with you that we shouldn’t have gone to such lengths to decommission the hard points on the CP-140 that would have otherwise supported Harpoon (or eqvt) employment.

737 has no doors For the landing gear? Boeing engineering. Fluid dynamics at its finest.

 

[MTShaw]

I’m curious what upgrade problems are expected. Generally speaking, things that go in avionics racks are getting smaller not bigger.

The fleet still has the wing pylons and they’ve been put on since ASLEP but they aren’t fitted and working. The “Canadian” way; I wouldn’t be surprised if we paid companies to remove the spare tire from COTS fleets.

Just to note, VX-1 and 20 were launching Harpoons off of P-8 long before we had a working Block 4…2013 for 20. We weren’t even Block 3 back then.

https://www.navair.navy.mil/node/20271

In the navy, we have to make allowance not only for new weapons, but for computers. Realstic you can’t have enough computer power. And to have computer power you need power and both need cooling.

Computing gets smaller but also gets more dense and hotter. And because there is more room in the rack. They load it up with more computing…

 

[SeaKingTacco]

737 has no doors For the landing gear? Boeing engineering. Fluid dynamics at its finest.

I am not really sure what your point is. The 737 family has never had landing gear doors. What has that got to do, specifically, with the operational effectiveness of the P8?

 

[MTShaw]

I am not really sure what your point is. The 737 family has never had landing gear doors. What has that got to do, specifically, with the operational effectiveness of the P8?

I am poking fun at Boeing for an obvious aerodynamic loss not rectified over 55 years.

Rule for me is if i don’t make sense it’s because I’m attempting to be funny or because i have aphasia due to stroke.

 

[SupersonicMax]

I am poking fun at Boeing for an obvious aerodynamic loss not rectified over 55 years.

Rule for me is if i don’t make sense it’s because I’m attempting to be funny or because i have aphasia due to stroke.

The 737 is far from the only plane with no main wheels doors. The 737 main wheels wells are fitted with a seal and the wheel with a hub to reduce parasite drag. The saving in weight (and thus the reduced induced drag) makes up for it.

The 737 sits too low to fit it with main wheel doors. That was a deliberate design choice from Boeing and operators see no operational benefit from having the main wheel doors hence they were never designed and installed.

 

[Spencer100]

It strikes me that in someways that the P8 would be a side grade. Also, the P8 might have upgrade problems. It is so full of electronics that the thing doesn’t have doors for the landing gear. Would be nice for our current plane to carry some anti-shipping missiles though.

No 737 has landing gear doors

 

[dapaterson]

So you're saying an AERE officer deep in the bowels of DAR can get "Leading Change" points for adding them to the specification, and a second AERE officer deep in the bowels of ADM Mat can get "Leading Change" points for removing them from the in-service fleet a few years later?

#Canadianization

 

[SeaKingTacco]

So you're saying an AERE officer deep in the bowels of DAR can get "Leading Change" points for adding them to the specification, and a second AERE officer deep in the bowels of ADM Mat can get "Leading Change" points for removing them from the in-service fleet a few years later?

#Canadianization

Sadly, you probably are not far from the truth…

 

[GK .Dundas]

So you're saying an AERE officer deep in the bowels of DAR can get "Leading Change" points for adding them to the specification, and a second AERE officer deep in the bowels of ADM Mat can get "Leading Change" points for removing them from the in-service fleet a few years later?

#Canadianization

And I suspect that somewhere someone is planning to reinstall them to get his or hers points...

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The 737 is far from the only plane with no main wheels doors. The 737 main wheels wells are fitted with a seal and the wheel with a hub to reduce parasite drag. The saving in weight (and thus the reduced induced drag) makes up for it.

The 737 sits too low to fit it with main wheel doors. That was a deliberate design choice from Boeing and operators see no operational benefit from having the main wheel doors hence they were never designed and installed.

As Max mentions

 

[dimsum]

The 737 is far from the only plane with no main wheels doors. The 737 main wheels wells are fitted with a seal and the wheel with a hub to reduce parasite drag. The saving in weight (and thus the reduced induced drag) makes up for it.

The 737 sits too low to fit it with main wheel doors. That was a deliberate design choice from Boeing and operators see no operational benefit from having the main wheel doors hence they were never designed and installed.

Oh look at you with “facts” and “expertise”.

 

[Good2Golf]

Well, in fairness, the facts have been around for more than half a century.

 

[KevinB]

Well, in fairness, the facts have been around for more than half a century.

So why is it an issue now?

Or does the CAF really want P-3’s from the Boneyard?