CMMA - replacing the CP140 Aurora

[Spencer100]

Bombardier can lobby till hell freezes over.
They don’t have a compliant airframe.

Furthermore, Canada can’t afford to back out of the P-8A, both from a NORAD aspect, but also a don’t piss off the neighbors aspect.

I agree but....

Here is Justin Trudeau home for Mother's day (or something) bumping in a Bombardier family member or a some other connection. Justin knows them by name and the kids names too. Which wins out? A family friend or the big nameless Boeing and Pentagon general you met somewhere? With this Government you know the answer as past performance has shown.

 

[KevinB]

I agree but....

Here is Justin Trudeau home for Mother's day (or something) bumping in a Bombardier family member or a some other connection. Justin knows them by name and the kids names too. Which wins out? A family friend or the big nameless Boeing and Pentagon general you met somewhere? With this Government you know the answer as past performance has shown.

POTUS wins out...
Or something else gets taken out of NAFTA etc...

 

[Good2Golf]

I agree but....

Here is Justin Trudeau home for Mother's day (or something) bumping in a Bombardier family member or a some other connection. Justin knows them by name and the kids names too. Which wins out? A family friend or the big nameless Boeing and Pentagon general you met somewhere? With this Government you know the answer as past performance has shown.

It ain’t personal, it’s just business. Uncle Sam is at his limit of tolerance of Canada freeloading on security. Canada is ‘on orders’ for the foreseeable future and will continue to buy whatever Uncle Sam tells it to, (F-35, NASAMS, SPY-7, P-8, etc…). The best Trudeau will be able to do, is pretend that all these and more in the future, were his idea.

 

[MTShaw]

I agree but....

Here is Justin Trudeau home for Mother's day (or something) bumping in a Bombardier family member or a some other connection. Justin knows them by name and the kids names too. Which wins out? A family friend or the big nameless Boeing and Pentagon general you met somewhere? With this Government you know the answer as past performance has shown.

In my opinion, the Americans will win out because they are sick of us f@3king around and low balling continental defence.

The same reason the submarine projected is being expedite.

The same the economic requirements where change on FFCP to exclude other than the F-35.

…

 

[KevinB]

In my opinion, the Americans will win out because they are sick of us f@3king around and low balling continental defence.

I don’t see it as us winning and Canada losing. It’s a win win on that with P-8, or it’s loose lose with Bombardier’s vapor ware.

The same reason the submarine projected is being expedite.

AUKUSc
If anyone asks it’s for copyright

The same the economic requirements were change on FFCP to exclude other than the F-35.

…

Canada had bought in to F-35 years ago, y’all just seemed to have forgotten that.

 

[MTShaw]

I don’t see it as us winning and Canada losing. It’s a win win on that with P-8, or it’s loose lose with Bombardier’s vapor ware.

I could see a permanently unfinished Globaleye project to placate that money sponge.

AUKUSc
If anyone asks it’s for copyright

The public would have to be convinced reactors parked in our ports acceptable. I’m skeptical. I’ve been wrong before, just look at my misgivings about the P-8a.

Canada had bought in to F-35 years ago, y’all just seemed to have forgotten that.

That stopped when the auditor general stepped in and rewrote the nature of defence procurement and the previous government lost its nerve. But we are better off having waited. I would have loved some Growlers, though.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Article out today that I almost posted till I read to the end because you know. But you guys can google it. But long short of it is the government is looking to fly the CP-140 long past 2030. They are looking at life extension options.

My take is that Bombardier lobbying is having an effect.

Your take is probably not the reality. An article from that guy doesn’t change much.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The winner here will be our LRP fleet, the RCAF, NATO, NORAD and our Allies.

The HLMRs didn’t change. Nothing has changed that I’m aware of and I am fairly close to this one.

 

[KevinB]

I could see a permanently unfinished Globaleye project to placate that money sponge.

Sadly so could I.

The public would have to be convinced reactors parked in our ports acceptable. I’m skeptical. I’ve been wrong before, just look at my misgivings about the P-8a.

Canada has hosted Nuclear Powered vessels in the past - unlike Australia also has a rich nuclear power history.
On a personal note, I really do think SSN's are the only practical Sub for Canada, and as a result, I would hope that if Canada doesn't want it's own, that they embrace AUKUS and offer to put some RCN bodies on those.

That stopped when the auditor general stepped in and rewrote the nature of defence procurement and the previous government lost its nerve. But we are better off having waited. I would have loved some Growlers, though.

 

[Spencer100]

Your take is probably not the reality. An article from that guy doesn’t change much.

My take and a nickel is still $0.05

 

[CBH99]

I could see a permanently unfinished Globaleye project to placate that money sponge.

The public would have to be convinced reactors parked in our ports acceptable. I’m skeptical. I’ve been wrong before, just look at my misgivings about the P-8a.

That stopped when the auditor general stepped in and rewrote the nature of defence procurement and the previous government lost its nerve. But we are better off having waited. I would have loved some Growlers, though.

That stopped when the Auditor General stepped in?

(Mind elaborating?)

 

[CBH99]

I agree but....

Here is Justin Trudeau home for Mother's day (or something) bumping in a Bombardier family member or a some other connection. Justin knows them by name and the kids names too. Which wins out? A family friend or the big nameless Boeing and Pentagon general you met somewhere? With this Government you know the answer as past performance has shown.

Typically I would agree with you, and if the matter were purely an internal Canadian matter that would probably be the case.

But Trudeau is well recognized throughout the G7, especially by some important people down south, as being the wannabe dictator piece of s**t that he is...and state vs state warfare doesn't care one bit about whether someone wants to identify as a lamp post that day or not.


He's kept the National Shipbuilding project chugging along (although I haven't seen any big news releases about ships hitting the water lately?) and bought 16 new SAR birds.

That's about it.


So while Bombardier family friend wants business, they'll have to go out and earn the customers like everyone else.

(Embraer keeps landing contracts to build all kinds of planes for fairly large clients - so there is a demand, and Bombardier could be the one meeting that demand)


But I don't think the incestuous political backslapping is going to work with these projects. Uncle Sam is going to tell us what to buy, and we're going to do it. (Which I'm actually totally okay with in regards to this, tbh)

 

[Spencer100]

Typically I would agree with you, and if the matter were purely an internal Canadian matter that would probably be the case.

But Trudeau is well recognized throughout the G7, especially by some important people down south, as being the wannabe dictator piece of s**t that he is...and state vs state warfare doesn't care one bit about whether someone wants to identify as a lamp post that day or not.


He's kept the National Shipbuilding project chugging along (although I haven't seen any big news releases about ships hitting the water lately?) and bought 16 new SAR birds.

That's about it.


So while Bombardier family friend wants business, they'll have to go out and earn the customers like everyone else.

(Embraer keeps landing contracts to build all kinds of planes for fairly large clients - so there is a demand, and Bombardier could be the one meeting that demand)


But I don't think the incestuous political backslapping is going to work with these projects. Uncle Sam is going to tell us what to buy, and we're going to do it. (Which I'm actually totally okay with in regards to this, tbh)

The Bombardier thing is deeper than that. Embraer still makes many different product lines. Bombardier just one. Large business jets. The family is pissed about losing the most of the business. From third largest jet maker in the world to just Globals. They still blame Boeing for the demise.

Now that they are just Biz Jets they have been freed to do defence work (there is a long story here) and are building up that side of the company. It really is the only new growth area they can look to in the near future. They are carrying a large debt load. They do not have the financial or human capital to open new lines of business in the short to middle term.

Other than the deep "Quebec Inc." ties of Bombardier this company would just be a smaller niche manufacturer. And would get zero Ottawa attention. But I put my bet in they upset the apple the cart. Not saying the P-8 is not purchased just that something will happen.

I can see Bombardier, lobbying, going to court, etc. Just long enough to throw sand in the gears.

Plus the wildcard. Airbus. If I was Airbus I would tell the CDN government we will base the next gen MPA that France is looking at on the A220. And get in on it early.

 

[DBNSG]

The Bombardier thing is deeper than that. Embraer still makes many different product lines. Bombardier just one. Large business jets. The family is pissed about losing the most of the business. From third largest jet maker in the world to just Globals. They still blame Boeing for the demise.

Now that they are just Biz Jets they have been freed to do defence work (there is a long story here) and are building up that side of the company. It really is the only new growth area they can look to in the near future. They are carrying a large debt load. They do not have the financial or human capital to open new lines of business in the short to middle term.

Other than the deep "Quebec Inc." ties of Bombardier this company would just be a smaller niche manufacturer. And would get zero Ottawa attention. But I put my bet in they upset the apple the cart. Not saying the P-8 is not purchased just that something will happen.

I can see Bombardier, lobbying, going to court, etc. Just long enough to throw sand in the gears.

Plus the wildcard. Airbus. If I was Airbus I would tell the CDN government we will base the next gen MPA that France is looking at on the A220. And get in on it early.

Well with the recent lessons learned from the Ukraine conflict perhaps bombardier should be building Loitering munitions or a new class of recce drone?

 

[KevinB]

The Bombardier thing is deeper than that. Embraer still makes many different product lines. Bombardier just one. Large business jets. The family is pissed about losing the most of the business. From third largest jet maker in the world to just Globals. They still blame Boeing for the demise.

Now that they are just Biz Jets they have been freed to do defence work (there is a long story here) and are building up that side of the company. It really is the only new growth area they can look to in the near future. They are carrying a large debt load. They do not have the financial or human capital to open new lines of business in the short to middle term.

Other than the deep "Quebec Inc." ties of Bombardier this company would just be a smaller niche manufacturer. And would get zero Ottawa attention. But I put my bet in they upset the apple the cart. Not saying the P-8 is not purchased just that something will happen.

I can see Bombardier, lobbying, going to court, etc. Just long enough to throw sand in the gears.

Plus the wildcard. Airbus. If I was Airbus I would tell the CDN government we will base the next gen MPA that France is looking at on the A220. And get in on it early.

If Bombardier was smart they’d focus on obtainable goals.
They don’t have a viable platform for an MPA, and the modifications required to make it one would hamper its range etc.
IMHO they’re better off to look at a cheaper ELINT bird or SOF support C5ISR setup.

Airbus MPA , well that won’t work for 5Eyes.

 

[Spencer100]

If Bombardier was smart they’d focus on obtainable goals.
They don’t have a viable platform for an MPA, and the modifications required to make it one would hamper its range etc.
IMHO they’re better off to look at a cheaper ELINT bird or SOF support C5ISR setup.

Airbus MPA , well that won’t work for 5Eyes.

Airbus team with Lockheed it could. They are teamed on other things.

I was just talking about the industrial moves. Airbus could do a move like that. Not that they would. It would throw the whole thing into a tailspin.

You would have two "Canadian" made planes vs Boeing. The press would go to town. And yes they did not respond to the RFP so its not going to happen.

Just a crazy what if.

 

[KevinB]

Airbus team with Lockheed it could. They are teamed on other things.

I was just talking about the industrial moves. Airbus could do a move like that. Not that they would. It would throw the whole thing into a tailspin.

You would have two "Canadian" made planes vs Boeing. The press would go to town. And yes they did not respond to the RFP so its not going to happen.

Just a crazy what if.

Well two Canadian Vaporware items

 

[Spencer100]

Well with the recent lessons learned from the Ukraine conflict perhaps bombardier should be building Loitering munitions or a new class of recce drone?

Been there, done that.

Canadair CL-89 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And

Canadair CL-227 Sentinel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Part of the deal not to produce defence only items

Plus

They did own the maker of the NLAW, Starstreak, etc.

Thales Air Defence - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Colin Parkinson]

There will be a need for a new C17 type aircraft at some point. Not to mention we need gravel runway capable airliners as I understand the last of the 737 modified for that have been retired.

 

[MTShaw]

That stopped when the Auditor General stepped in?

(Mind elaborating?)

Sorry, my brain is unique. I was referring to how the price of the went from $9 billion to $40 billion making its price to high for the Harper government.