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CMMA - replacing the CP140 Aurora

dimsum said:
Sure, then Boeing will counter-sue that we weren't following the High Level Mandatory Requirements.

Also, unlike other situations (C-27 vs C-295, F-35 vs Gripen, etc) their proposal doesn't even exist. Swordfish is not really a thing - it was quietly shelved in 2018 with no working model, and the Global 6500 is flying as a completely different role. The GoC could (and should) easily say "ok, please show me the full working model, not a developmental concept, of your proposal that you can build within the next few years."

Oh, I want in on this bet too. I'll even bring a case of the good, craft stuff.
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You're in. :)

In all reality I hope your right. I'm just super negative about the current course of this country as governed.
 
dimsum said:
I think that Kingfisher and Cyclone have given the GoC enough black eyes that even political parties will say "hell no" to being a launch customer for anything in the near future.
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Does the GoC even know its been getting jabs/upper cuts/haymakers in the face by its silly defence decisions?
 
FSTO said:
Does the GoC even know its been getting jabs/upper cuts/haymakers in the face by its silly defence decisions?
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Beat me to it. The PMO people can't tell a rifle from a howitzer. Defence is just a pesky file that is given the least amount of attention they can get away from. And the resources given are put to use on soft side things, social issues and change in the organization.

I don't think people here truly understand the vision of the current government. When The PM says we are "post nation state" believe him. That is his thinking right or wrong. Canada as currently constituted is flawed in their minds. The defence of Canada is something that is not very high up on the list. And only something to be done because they must. Many in the halls of powers don't realize the change that is happening now. They are operating under of a high minded goal (in their minds) of remaking the economic and social systems of Canada and the world. Buying anything for the military just a set back for them.
 
Kirkhill said:
As a passenger in Turbo-Props in northern latitudes I can state categorically that my most interesting flights have been sitting in window seats when props and wings start to shed ice. I didn't know the fuselages were armoured..... They are armoured aren't they?
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There was one transit flight from Guam to Hawaii, where we got into some significant icing. When you’re estimating buildup in inches and it’s increasing despite de-icing going at max, and you’re flying over “nowhere” and nowhere is what surrounds you for xxxx miles…

Only time I was even a tad nervous flying…
 
Spencer100 said:
Beat me to it. The PMO people can't tell a rifle from a howitzer. Defence is just a pesky file that is given the least amount of attention they can get away from. And the resources given are put to use on soft side things, social issues and change in the organization.

I don't think people here truly understand the vision of the current government. When The PM says we are "post nation state" believe him. That is his thinking right or wrong. Canada as currently constituted is flawed in their minds. The defence of Canada is something that is not very high up on the list. And only something to be done because they must. Many in the halls of powers don't realize the change that is happening now. They are operating under of a high minded goal (in their minds) of remaking the economic and social systems of Canada and the world. Buying anything for the military just a set back for them.
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Trade…

You rent an apartment above a bustling office building, that if necessary will concrete over your door. I understand that certain implications have been clearly explained if the list isn’t adhered too.

I don’t think the PM wants to be the leader of the first failed post nation state.


The F-35 buy is really insignificant for numbers even with the ‘full’ 88 number that is projected. Given the industry offsets Canada has in the F-35 program, 88 was simply to remain on that table.

The P-8 is a pretty easy sale, it’s low risk non developmental system, and it can be marketed for Canadian voters as a NORAD/Canadian Defensive item, which has been an announced Liberal commitment for a while.
 
KevinB said:
Trade…

You rent an apartment above a bustling office building, that if necessary will concrete over your door. I understand that certain implications have been clearly explained if the list isn’t adhered too.

I don’t think the PM wants to be the leader of the first failed post nation state.


The F-35 buy is really insignificant for numbers even with the ‘full’ 88 number that is projected. Given the industry offsets Canada has in the F-35 program, 88 was simply to remain on that table.

The P-8 is a pretty easy sale, it’s low risk non developmental system, and it can be marketed for Canadian voters as a NORAD/Canadian Defensive item, which has been an announced Liberal commitment for a while.
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I agree with everything you said.

Its just the family, Quebec and Justin ties that get me to think....is there something more there. Why at this late stage do they now say "hey we want to build the MPA!" (I did put some of my thoughts above of why, which may not be worth 2 cents) It just has a weird sound and timing to it.

It was even more strongly about this buy put out by Bombardier then the SAR plane bids. At that time they just said you can buy the Dash-8 but it has no ramp. You want a ramp we will send you a development bill for it. That was it. And at the time it was third party people talking about buy Canadian.

Like I say your mileage may vary. :)
 
Spencer100 said:
I agree with everything you said.

Its just the family, Quebec and Justin ties that get me to think....is there something more there. Why at this late stage do they now say "hey we want to build the MPA!" (I did put some of my thoughts above of why, which may not be worth 2 cents) It just has a weird sound and timing to it.

It was even more strongly about this buy put out by Bombardier then the SAR plane bids. At that time they just said you can buy the Dash-8 but it has no ramp. You want a ramp we will send you a development bill for it. That was it. And at the time it was third party people talking about buy Canadian.

Like I say your mileage may vary. :)
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I have no doubt there will be another distraction for Quebec by the PMO.
Probably Canada jumping into FLRAA with the Bell V-280 Valor, and some sub components being done in Mirabel.
 
KevinB said:
I have no doubt there will be another distraction for Quebec by the PMO.
Probably Canada jumping into FLRAA with the Bell V-280 Valor, and some sub components being done in Mirabel.
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Yup...

Do you owe me case of beer for the V-280? :) can't remember :) :)

But that would be a smart idea bout jumping in on the V-280 and get sub work early on. So we are not going to do that.

Second thought. That Airbus helicopter interesting though...........how much did you say to Canadianize it? Perfect lets do that.
 
Eye In The Sky said:
Only time I was even a tad nervous flying…
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My two examples are similar to each other and (sort of) to your example:
  1. Chips light, so shut down one engine about 1000nm from home, in the middle of the Pacific
  2. Chips light (I swear I may be a jinx) in an op area, with nowhere "safe" for a few hours flight

Good2Golf said:
Negatory…ask Australia how that went for them with Tigre and Taipan.
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Their "she'll be 'right" approach to procurement has bit them more than a few times. They have had some great Army (land, not just aviation) and Navy procurement SNAFUs*. The only saving grace for them is that all political parties know that they need to have a decent Defence Force bc the US, UK, etc aren't nearby.

Although, now that there are USMC folks on rotation in the Top End and potentially US bombers stationed there, who knows if that has changed their calculus.

* The most recent one is probably the most egregious. The new subs would have been a French designed SSN, converted to SSK, and since they deal with the US so much, probably fitted with US equipment vs the French/EU stuff. This isn't "Australianizing", this is straight up changing a powerplant for a boat.
 
Just putting it out there - when I google "Chips Light" this is what comes up... was the pilot getting ready for a storm, but on a diet?

LS%20Classic.png
 
dimsum said:
My two examples are similar to each other and (sort of) to your example:
  1. Chips light, so shut down one engine about 1000nm from home, in the middle of the Pacific
  2. Chips light (I swear I may be a jinx) in an op area, with nowhere "safe" for a few hours flight
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Main transmission chip light settled on a decommissioned railway trestle bridge: enters the chat. 😉
 
dimsum said:
My two examples are similar to each other and (sort of) to your example:
  1. Chips light, so shut down one engine about 1000nm from home, in the middle of the Pacific
Click to expand...

That’s a long 1000nm…

dimsum said:
  1. Chips light (I swear I may be a jinx) in an op area, with nowhere "safe" for a few hours flight
Click to expand...

Sandy place? Another long flight back to the shacks…
 
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