Challenger/"VIP" Jet/CF Chopper Use (CDS, others) [merged]
- Thread starter Edward Campbell
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OldSolduer
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It doesn't matter if the jets fly full or empty - the only reason this issue is reported is the fact that the MSM has an issue to spank the Conservative government over.
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The Citations are used for flight inspections of the various airport navigation aids and approach instrumentation across the country, simulating the profile that passenger airliners use to ensure that all instrumentation meets the accuracy and safety specifications for each approach. This is required to ensure that electronics or antenna calibrations don't drift resulting in less than safe margins between aircraft and the ground.
This appears to be a case of some media types not even carrying out the most basic of research in an attempt to get that next sensational exposé.
:not-again:
Regards
G2G
This appears to be a case of some media types not even carrying out the most basic of research in an attempt to get that next sensational exposé.
:not-again:
Regards
G2G
A
aesop081
Guest
Sell the jets and hire contractors to do the safety inspections. The media and oposition wouldn't say anything bad about outsourcing to contractors would they ?
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OldSolduer
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I agree Pat - sell the Challengers as well - then make the politicians hire charters - the lowest bidder of course. Or Scare Canada - and the b!tchy attendants.
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Changed the bit in yellow to match practices in some departments for spending $40 at a time on coffee & donuts - THAT'LL make the system run smoother. :Jim Seggie said:
OldSolduer
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milnews.ca said:Changed the bit in yellow to match practices in some departments for spending $40 at a time on coffee & donuts - THAT'LL make the system run smoother. :
Thank you. You are correct.
WRT hospitality - we are not allowed to use public funds to buy a retired soldier a coffee for his/her Depart With Dignity gathering.
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OUCH!Jim Seggie said:
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Uh oh....
Shared with the usual disclaimers...
MacKay helicopter airlift raised red flags, emails show
Original Link
Defence officials raised concerns from the outset over a request to airlift Defence Minister Peter MacKay from a remote Newfoundland fishing spot in July 2010, documents reveal.
The Toronto Star first reported that the emails, which were sent just hours after a request to pick up the vacationing minister so he could catch a flight from the Gander airport, raised concerns about resources and about a public and media backlash.
"So, when the guy who's fishing at the fishing hole next to the minister sees the big yellow helicopter arrive and decides to use his cell phone to video the minister getting on board and post it on YouTube, who will be answering the mail on that one," wrote Col. Bruce Ploughman, director of Canada Combined Aerospace Operations Centre at 1 Canadian Air Division Headquarters in Winnipeg wrote, adding a typographical symbol for a happy face at the end.
"If we are tasked to do this we of course will comply — given the potential for negative press though, I would likely recommend against it, especially in view of the fact that the Air Force receives (or at least used to) regular ATIs specifically targetting travel on CF aircraft by ministers," continued Ploughman in the emails released following the Star's Access to Information request and also obtained by the CBC.
A military search and rescue helicopter, one of three based in Gander, Nfld., was eventually dispatched to pick MacKay up from the remote fishing lodge on Friday, July 9, 2010.
Controversy arose when it was first revealed this fall that MacKay had taken the flight, at a cost of several thousands of dollars, while vacationing with friends, so he could catch a flight to London, Ont. for a government announcement.
Speaking during question period in the House of Commons Sept. 22, MacKay said the flight was for work, not pleasure.
"I was in fact in Gander in July of 2010 on a personal visit with friends that I paid for. Three days into the visit I participated in a search and rescue demonstration with 103 squadron 9 Wing Gander. I shortened my stay by a day to take part in that demonstration," he said.
Thursday in the House of Commons, MacKay again defended the flight.
"I said before I was leaving personal time to go back to work early and before doing so took part in a search and rescue exercise that we had been trying to arrange for some time," MacKay said.
"That in fact happened. It's been confirmed by (Canadian Forces official spokesman) Brig.-Gen. Bedard, who stated 'the mutual gain was realized in the sense that we had been looking to showcase the Cormorant's abilities and the search and rescue capabilities of the Canadian Forces to the minister'," MacKay said.
But the original email sent the morning of July 6 detailing the request for "helicopter airlift" from a location known as Burnt Rattle on the Gander Peninsula did not mention a search and rescue exercise.
In fact, documents show officials first considered other military aircraft for the task, but decided upon one of the Gander-based Cormorant helicopters, which were closest to MacKay's position. The Gander Cormorants are responsible for Atlantic search and rescue.
An email sent on July 7 put the order out that "this mission will be under the guise of … SAR (training)."
Concerns over landing
The emails also document concerns over the proposed landing area, which was too small for a Cormorant. The emails show MacKay's political staff intervened to try to persuade defence officials, arguing the landing had been done at that location previously. Ultimately, the emails show, MacKay was to be removed by hoist instead.
The documents also show that the helicopter airlift that consumed so much of the officials' time over four days saved MacKay about two hours' travel time — a 90-minute boat ride followed by a 30-minute drive.
A spokesperson for MacKay said his office has already answered all questions on the issue.
"I can't control other people's comments," Jay Paxton said in reference to the officials' emails. "Any previous flights in the area were ... related to personal time."
Shared with the usual disclaimers...
MacKay helicopter airlift raised red flags, emails show
Original Link
Defence officials raised concerns from the outset over a request to airlift Defence Minister Peter MacKay from a remote Newfoundland fishing spot in July 2010, documents reveal.
The Toronto Star first reported that the emails, which were sent just hours after a request to pick up the vacationing minister so he could catch a flight from the Gander airport, raised concerns about resources and about a public and media backlash.
"So, when the guy who's fishing at the fishing hole next to the minister sees the big yellow helicopter arrive and decides to use his cell phone to video the minister getting on board and post it on YouTube, who will be answering the mail on that one
," wrote Col. Bruce Ploughman, director of Canada Combined Aerospace Operations Centre at 1 Canadian Air Division Headquarters in Winnipeg wrote, adding a typographical symbol for a happy face at the end. "If we are tasked to do this we of course will comply — given the potential for negative press though, I would likely recommend against it, especially in view of the fact that the Air Force receives (or at least used to) regular ATIs specifically targetting travel on CF aircraft by ministers," continued Ploughman in the emails released following the Star's Access to Information request and also obtained by the CBC.
A military search and rescue helicopter, one of three based in Gander, Nfld., was eventually dispatched to pick MacKay up from the remote fishing lodge on Friday, July 9, 2010.
Controversy arose when it was first revealed this fall that MacKay had taken the flight, at a cost of several thousands of dollars, while vacationing with friends, so he could catch a flight to London, Ont. for a government announcement.
Speaking during question period in the House of Commons Sept. 22, MacKay said the flight was for work, not pleasure.
"I was in fact in Gander in July of 2010 on a personal visit with friends that I paid for. Three days into the visit I participated in a search and rescue demonstration with 103 squadron 9 Wing Gander. I shortened my stay by a day to take part in that demonstration," he said.
Thursday in the House of Commons, MacKay again defended the flight.
"I said before I was leaving personal time to go back to work early and before doing so took part in a search and rescue exercise that we had been trying to arrange for some time," MacKay said.
"That in fact happened. It's been confirmed by (Canadian Forces official spokesman) Brig.-Gen. Bedard, who stated 'the mutual gain was realized in the sense that we had been looking to showcase the Cormorant's abilities and the search and rescue capabilities of the Canadian Forces to the minister'," MacKay said.
But the original email sent the morning of July 6 detailing the request for "helicopter airlift" from a location known as Burnt Rattle on the Gander Peninsula did not mention a search and rescue exercise.
In fact, documents show officials first considered other military aircraft for the task, but decided upon one of the Gander-based Cormorant helicopters, which were closest to MacKay's position. The Gander Cormorants are responsible for Atlantic search and rescue.
An email sent on July 7 put the order out that "this mission will be under the guise of … SAR (training)."
Concerns over landing
The emails also document concerns over the proposed landing area, which was too small for a Cormorant. The emails show MacKay's political staff intervened to try to persuade defence officials, arguing the landing had been done at that location previously. Ultimately, the emails show, MacKay was to be removed by hoist instead.
The documents also show that the helicopter airlift that consumed so much of the officials' time over four days saved MacKay about two hours' travel time — a 90-minute boat ride followed by a 30-minute drive.
A spokesperson for MacKay said his office has already answered all questions on the issue.
"I can't control other people's comments," Jay Paxton said in reference to the officials' emails. "Any previous flights in the area were ... related to personal time."
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*sigh
I'm of the opinion that the PM represents Canada and should use Canadian Forces assets or aircraft owned by the government for his travel needs. However, the above article does not help the government in the eyes of the taxpayer.
I'm of the opinion that the PM represents Canada and should use Canadian Forces assets or aircraft owned by the government for his travel needs. However, the above article does not help the government in the eyes of the taxpayer.
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Loachman said:
I'm as Tory blue as they come, but I have to admit that CBC wrote that article with little if no apparent bias. They did their homework, and MND does not come out smelling as sweetly as he originally advertised. I'm really having a hard time mustering up the wherewithal to support him.
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A bit more from the Toronto Star, including the ATIP-ed documents (attached)
What's attached is what they got.
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Them and other outlets who appear to have asked for about the same documents just after the initial story (only we don't know what the others asked for, do we?).Occam said:
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OldSolduer
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I'd like to file an ATI for the travel of every Member of Parliament - how many "fact finding" holidays tours missions would we see?
Jim Seggie said:
Jim, I'm sure they didn't use a SAR aircraft. I've been one to defend the CDS use of the challenger jets and the MDNs use of challengers and although the use of SAR assets didn't quite ring right at the time I accepted the official explanation. This however does not look or sound good at all. We can point fingers all we want at MP expenses it still does not make this right. This is going to be very hard to justify...
