- Reaction score
- 332
- Points
- 880
short final said:
Trenton no longer has any CH-149 Cormorants in its fleet. The CH-146 Griffon is carrying the entire Helo SAR response for 8 Wing. 424 lost their Shags to 413 and Gander - their tail rotor assemblies were in short demand.
I am currently going to Canadore College for Aviation Maintenance Technician program. I am thinking about joining the Airforce as an AVN Tech. I have two questions, First how hard is it to get to work on your aircraft of choice, and second I would like a comparison of the Griffon Squadrons.
Thank You for your time,
PTE. Plantz, G.A.
Thank You for your time,
PTE. Plantz, G.A.
- Reaction score
- 21,986
- Points
- 1,360
Pte Plantz,
Firstly, like many things in the military, your selection on a particular aircraft type after the many months of basic technical training may have only a small portion of your personal wishes taken into account. There is often more variance in which postings to particular fleets are plentiful at the time you would commence your training and apprenticeship on a particular aircraft type. Some of the folks in CFSATE might be in a better position to comment on the selection process of a MOC-500 tradesman to a particular aircraft.
Secondly, there are nine Griffon squadrons, one operational training unit (Gagetown), three combat support squadrons (Goose Bay, Bagotville and Cold Lake), two reserve-heavy tactical helicopter squadrons (St-Hubert and Borden), two regular force-heavy tactical helicopter squadrons (Valcartier and Edmonton) and a special operations squadron (Petawawa). There is also a Cormorant SAR squadron in Trenton that is currently operating Griffons as a temporary measure while engineering issues are being addressed with the CH149 Cormorant's tail rotor assembly. The CSS units support operations at fighter bases and provide a secondary SAR response to augment the primary rotary-wing National SAR capability. The Tac Hel units generally support the Army and other CF elements as may be required from time to time. There are quite a range of differences amongst all the squadrons, so you might narrow down your Q's to something a bit more specific.
Cheers
G2G
Firstly, like many things in the military, your selection on a particular aircraft type after the many months of basic technical training may have only a small portion of your personal wishes taken into account. There is often more variance in which postings to particular fleets are plentiful at the time you would commence your training and apprenticeship on a particular aircraft type. Some of the folks in CFSATE might be in a better position to comment on the selection process of a MOC-500 tradesman to a particular aircraft.
Secondly, there are nine Griffon squadrons, one operational training unit (Gagetown), three combat support squadrons (Goose Bay, Bagotville and Cold Lake), two reserve-heavy tactical helicopter squadrons (St-Hubert and Borden), two regular force-heavy tactical helicopter squadrons (Valcartier and Edmonton) and a special operations squadron (Petawawa). There is also a Cormorant SAR squadron in Trenton that is currently operating Griffons as a temporary measure while engineering issues are being addressed with the CH149 Cormorant's tail rotor assembly. The CSS units support operations at fighter bases and provide a secondary SAR response to augment the primary rotary-wing National SAR capability. The Tac Hel units generally support the Army and other CF elements as may be required from time to time. There are quite a range of differences amongst all the squadrons, so you might narrow down your Q's to something a bit more specific.
Cheers
G2G
A
aesop081
Guest
Your poll is equaly vague......
What do you mean "best" ?
Are you refering to amount of work ? ease of maintenance? Most changes for deployed operations ? gucci trips ?
What do you mean "best" ?
Are you refering to amount of work ? ease of maintenance? Most changes for deployed operations ? gucci trips ?
A
aesop081
Guest
rhfc_pte said:
Thats what i meant........as to what ?
working hours ?
Amount of work ?
oportunities for trips....
Be specific...... :
- Reaction score
- 21,986
- Points
- 1,360
Well, for a 514 AVN tech, the CSS squadron has yellow Griffons, the Tac Hel Griffons are green...all units are AF9000 (maint standard) compliant. More time on field exercises and support during land ops for tac hel squadrons, more support to SAR ops for the CSS folks. Technically, there is probably more impact on lifestyle to the actual physical location of the squadron than to the actual employment, but I'm on the edge of my lane here.
G2G
G2G
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
I'll step in, being a former fitter/AVN tech and have worked in all 3 enviroments. First, what's better? Depends on what turns your crank. You like to travel? I've worked on tutors, t-birds, cosmos, dash-8's, hercs, seakings and griffons and the one I spent the longest on was the one I never wanted to work on at first, the herc. My fav was seakings (more reliable than many think), and not a hard bird to learn. Sailing around the ocean blue is not that bad, the fish heads tend to leave you alone for the most part and you can get bored of going to Hawaii...well, maybe not.
The herc is a good plane but quite hands on, travel is good and no tents.
Griffin world, well, tachel anyways....welcome to the army life. I cannot speak for fighter types (been deployed with the tankers with them though) but from what I've seen, they have it pretty good. Many of the techs I know love the plane but hate the location.
As for the Griffin Sqns, well, it's been said already. It's the same helo, only thing that makes a sqn good is the people running it and those in it. And that applies to any unit. You may love the hornet but if you have cannon fodder for bosses or bitter techs who don't care, you'll be miserable. Wherever you end up, be happy, do your job and then some.....and in the long run, you just might get rewarded, or the shaft
Kind of short but anything else, ask away.....and do try to be more specific with your question, if possible.
The herc is a good plane but quite hands on, travel is good and no tents.
Griffin world, well, tachel anyways....welcome to the army life. I cannot speak for fighter types (been deployed with the tankers with them though) but from what I've seen, they have it pretty good. Many of the techs I know love the plane but hate the location.
As for the Griffin Sqns, well, it's been said already. It's the same helo, only thing that makes a sqn good is the people running it and those in it. And that applies to any unit. You may love the hornet but if you have cannon fodder for bosses or bitter techs who don't care, you'll be miserable. Wherever you end up, be happy, do your job and then some.....and in the long run, you just might get rewarded, or the shaft
Kind of short but anything else, ask away.....and do try to be more specific with your question, if possible.
A
aesop081
Guest
rhfc_pte said:
i give up........
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Working hours........a day worker will do the 37.5 to 40 hr work week but the techs hours will depend where they work and the type of shift. Then toss in sports, admin, leave, etc........but shifts vary. I've done shifts where it was a 35 hr week........a 30 hr week one week then 40 the next.........50+ in a week and then you can toss in staying late during nights to get a bird ready for the next day (esp in a SAR Sqn), but then also, when nights are slow, the crews will split down "occasionally". And if you deploy, expect long days/nights.
Workload....geez. Some days are insane, going from one plane to another....then other days, you are doing nothing. But that depends on where you work. Day workers usually have a steady job where as shift workers (the techs on the plane vice the techs in the day) don't have a set job to work on. When you get to work is when you find out what you maybe doing. Maybe an engine change, fuel tank entry, landing geart change, etc....And joe jobs are a staple of military life. Nothing flying and guess what? Hangar clean-up, moving crud around, etc..........
Trips........guess I wasn't CLEAR enough........depends on the type of aircraft your on. Always some oppurtunity for a trip or 2 or 3 or 4 and so on. Herc world is good for trips, Dash-8 world is not. Griffin world, not really........SeaKings, well you get to go with the ship when an AirDet is on board......Auroras, some trips........CF-18s, some........Tutors, only the Snowbirds use them now, so lots of travel. Then there are MRP's (mobile repair parties) to exotic locations if a plane breaks down away from base and cannot fly back. Working on a herc up north, outdoors at -45 is a hoot
But usually only the experienced techs go. Courses...there's more travel for you.
Overall........Not that much travelling or too much, hours are not set in stone (no union here) ,the workload is hit or miss (usually busy)and the conditions can be great or lousy. But one thing, being an AVN tech is not like an AME in the sense that as a AVN, you may end up working a job that takes you off the plane for years, go to some bleep hole place for a deployment or somewhere nice, get a hotel w/o a pool or with one that's closed...grrr, and then toss in all the military stuff. AME's go to work, fix planes and go home.
Workload....geez. Some days are insane, going from one plane to another....then other days, you are doing nothing. But that depends on where you work. Day workers usually have a steady job where as shift workers (the techs on the plane vice the techs in the day) don't have a set job to work on. When you get to work is when you find out what you maybe doing. Maybe an engine change, fuel tank entry, landing geart change, etc....And joe jobs are a staple of military life. Nothing flying and guess what? Hangar clean-up, moving crud around, etc..........
Trips........guess I wasn't CLEAR enough........depends on the type of aircraft your on. Always some oppurtunity for a trip or 2 or 3 or 4 and so on. Herc world is good for trips, Dash-8 world is not. Griffin world, not really........SeaKings, well you get to go with the ship when an AirDet is on board......Auroras, some trips........CF-18s, some........Tutors, only the Snowbirds use them now, so lots of travel. Then there are MRP's (mobile repair parties) to exotic locations if a plane breaks down away from base and cannot fly back. Working on a herc up north, outdoors at -45 is a hoot
But usually only the experienced techs go. Courses...there's more travel for you. Overall........Not that much travelling or too much, hours are not set in stone (no union here) ,the workload is hit or miss (usually busy)and the conditions can be great or lousy. But one thing, being an AVN tech is not like an AME in the sense that as a AVN, you may end up working a job that takes you off the plane for years, go to some bleep hole place for a deployment or somewhere nice, get a hotel w/o a pool or with one that's closed...grrr
, and then toss in all the military stuff. AME's go to work, fix planes and go home. 
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
They seem to be fairly accomodating with regards to initial postings out of Borden. If there is a particular type you'd like to work on, be certain to ask for more than one base that houses it. Traditionally, it seems like Tac Hel is a difficult place to be posted as an apprentice. We were told that Griffons were not an option for initial posting, but it does happen for some people.
I can't offer you any insight into the different Griffon squadrons, or their work environment... I've only been employed on the CP 140/A. Bison33's posts have been right on the money, he paints a very accurate picture.
I can't offer you any insight into the different Griffon squadrons, or their work environment... I've only been employed on the CP 140/A. Bison33's posts have been right on the money, he paints a very accurate picture.
rhfc_pte said:
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
rhfc_pte said:
Only time towards a promotion to Corporal.........You'd get 12 months credit (I'm 90% sure but I'll e-mail a buddy of mine who had his AME then joined, Bit I know he got at least a year). Otherwise, your AME means jack squat. There are many guys who have their AME. Just means they make more money if working part time with some company across the tarmac or to fall back on when they pull the pin.
- Reaction score
- 15
- Points
- 230
As a former D/SAMEO of a Tac Hel Sqn, I will tell the new Pte that there is a chance that you can go to a Tac Hel unit, but it is more likely that you will go to another fleet. Also, are you in the Air Force or not? You say that you are "thinking" about joining and then you sign off as a Private???????????????
The reality is that we tended to prefer to have non-apprentices since they are more employable, i.e. deployments and time to get authorized to at least "A" level. We did have apprentices and most of them were very hard workers. However, each had to be supervised and that equaled taking a journeyman or above off the a/c in order to supervise the apprentice. Thus, another reason why Tac Hel prefers already trained personnel. Most newbies found the Griffon a good a/c to learn.
Here's a little on the locations, starting from West to East:
1. Edmonton, never physically been there. The base is close to a major city and thus is a good place (I assume) for a young guy. Lots of flying in support of LFWA;
2. Cold Lake, 417 CS Sqn. Last time I knew they only had 3 Griffons. I've heard that Cold Lake is a good place to live if you like hunting, fishing, outdoors. I'm not so sure of the night life for a young guy.
3. Borden. Very busy at the moment. Total force Sqn. Borden is where you will do some training since CFSATE is here. Location is okay. Borden is close to Toronto (1 hour drive), but bring a car if you want to go anywhere.
4. Petawawa. 427 SOA Sqn. Now only support Special Ops. Busy and will only get busier. Pet is a great place for hunting, fishing, outdoors, etc. Not a good place for a single and young guy. Most young guys in Pet head out onto Highway 17 on Fridays and race down to Ottawa. Pet is a great place to raise a young family as the support from the mil community is tremendous.
5. St. Hubert. Total force Sqn, plus Tac Hel School for AVN and AVS techs. If you are lucky to get Tac Hel and are AVN, you will spend some time here. St. Hubert is just south of Montreal and easily within driving distance. Accomodations at the school are less than good, unless you love the smell of marijuana! The school is within an aviation technology college and the accomodations are shared with the civys. If you don't get in the civy dorm, you may end up in St. Jean. What fun I had there, not!
6. Valcartier. Just north of Quebec City. I highly recommend that you are able to speak French if you want to go here. Busy Sqn as well. Base is nice looking. My wife wanted me to be posted here after she saw it. Quebec City is easily within driving distance.
7. Gagetown. 403 HOTS or otherwise known as the training Sqn for pilots and FEs (some trg is done at the other units such as 400 Sqn in Borden). Nice base and very close to Fredericton. Freddy has a good night life. Sqn is very busy and the serviceability must be high due to the need to get the pilots and FEs trained. My neighbour was posted there and he loved it. 403 also houses LATEF, but you won't go there as a new AVN.
8. Bagotville, 439 CS Sqn. Similar to 417 Sqn in Cold Lake. Also, I highly recommend that you can speak French if you wish to be posted here. I've heard that Bagotville is a good place to be posted, but I'm not sure how good it is for a young guy.
9. Goose Bay, 444 Sqn. This is an isolated posting and I'm pretty sure that newbies don't get posted there.
I hope this helps. Tac Hel is fun and isn't so Army as most Air Force pers think. Yes, we are more "Army" than the rest of the Air Force, but some people like this. I love it!
The reality is that we tended to prefer to have non-apprentices since they are more employable, i.e. deployments and time to get authorized to at least "A" level. We did have apprentices and most of them were very hard workers. However, each had to be supervised and that equaled taking a journeyman or above off the a/c in order to supervise the apprentice. Thus, another reason why Tac Hel prefers already trained personnel. Most newbies found the Griffon a good a/c to learn.
Here's a little on the locations, starting from West to East:
1. Edmonton, never physically been there. The base is close to a major city and thus is a good place (I assume) for a young guy. Lots of flying in support of LFWA;
2. Cold Lake, 417 CS Sqn. Last time I knew they only had 3 Griffons. I've heard that Cold Lake is a good place to live if you like hunting, fishing, outdoors. I'm not so sure of the night life for a young guy.
3. Borden. Very busy at the moment. Total force Sqn. Borden is where you will do some training since CFSATE is here. Location is okay. Borden is close to Toronto (1 hour drive), but bring a car if you want to go anywhere.
4. Petawawa. 427 SOA Sqn. Now only support Special Ops. Busy and will only get busier. Pet is a great place for hunting, fishing, outdoors, etc. Not a good place for a single and young guy. Most young guys in Pet head out onto Highway 17 on Fridays and race down to Ottawa. Pet is a great place to raise a young family as the support from the mil community is tremendous.
5. St. Hubert. Total force Sqn, plus Tac Hel School for AVN and AVS techs. If you are lucky to get Tac Hel and are AVN, you will spend some time here. St. Hubert is just south of Montreal and easily within driving distance. Accomodations at the school are less than good, unless you love the smell of marijuana! The school is within an aviation technology college and the accomodations are shared with the civys. If you don't get in the civy dorm, you may end up in St. Jean. What fun I had there, not!
6. Valcartier. Just north of Quebec City. I highly recommend that you are able to speak French if you want to go here. Busy Sqn as well. Base is nice looking. My wife wanted me to be posted here after she saw it. Quebec City is easily within driving distance.
7. Gagetown. 403 HOTS or otherwise known as the training Sqn for pilots and FEs (some trg is done at the other units such as 400 Sqn in Borden). Nice base and very close to Fredericton. Freddy has a good night life. Sqn is very busy and the serviceability must be high due to the need to get the pilots and FEs trained. My neighbour was posted there and he loved it. 403 also houses LATEF, but you won't go there as a new AVN.
8. Bagotville, 439 CS Sqn. Similar to 417 Sqn in Cold Lake. Also, I highly recommend that you can speak French if you wish to be posted here. I've heard that Bagotville is a good place to be posted, but I'm not sure how good it is for a young guy.
9. Goose Bay, 444 Sqn. This is an isolated posting and I'm pretty sure that newbies don't get posted there.
I hope this helps. Tac Hel is fun and isn't so Army as most Air Force pers think. Yes, we are more "Army" than the rest of the Air Force, but some people like this. I love it!
A
aesop081
Guest
Scoobs said:
Scoobs, We could use ready-made technicians just as much as tac hel. Any aircraft fleet would be happy to have only journeyman tech and not have to train new ones up to "A" level. Tac Hel is not that special.
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