CH-146 Griffon

[PJOsborne]

thanks for your 2 cents, Duey. It's interesting why someone hasn't managed to find a compromise to the Mast mounted sensor problem.. i wonder why industry hasn't developed a quick-detatch/re-attatch mount so that the pod can be removed and replaced prior to and following transport...  :-\

 

[Good2Golf]

Good question, LO.  I suppose it's because the US Generally move Kiowa Warriors around in C-5's and C-17's.  Given the move to more tactical deployment, I think the good 'ole Herky bird is still the "gotta fit this" standard.  Engineering-wise, I suppose you could make an electrical connector and some way to detach the MMS, but I'm thinking that it would be removing lock-wired bolts vice some "quick-disconnect" type of mechanism...it sure would hurt having that baby undo in flight! 

Cheers,
Duey

 

[Strike]

The fact that the mast mounted system seems to be attached to a control component, maybe there are also maintenance issues when it is reattached -- i.e. they may require a test flight after reattachment.  Of course, I am no test pilot, but given our own regs wrt any changes regarding main control systems and quals required to ground run/fly after such changes, this may also be a factor in the nose placement of any visual sensors for the US.

Like I said, I am no TP.  Any thoughts?

 

[Good2Golf]

The fact that the mast mounted system seems to be attached to a control component, maybe there are also maintenance issues when it is reattached -- i.e. they may require a test flight after reattachment.   Of course, I am no test pilot, but given our own regs wrt any changes regarding main control systems and quals required to ground run/fly after such changes, this may also be a factor in the nose placement of any visual sensors for the US.

Like I said, I am no TP.   Any thoughts?

Strike,

Intersting point.  I'm not sure if it would need a T/F to certify airworthiness.  I was a CH135 Maintenance Test Pilot and we would do a T/F everytime we pulled a Twin apart to fly it on a Herc.  I belief the Griffon now needs what is called a "flight functional check", baby brother to the Test Flight, and only requires a qualified AC to fly, not an MTP.  That's pulling the head off and the tranny mast...pretty big stuff. 

My hunch is that re&re of the mast sight would only require C-level sign off by the maint auth. then a functional to ensure it performed correctly.  As the pilot accepting the aircraft though, you'd definitely see me up top checking the lock-wiring!  ;D

Cheers,
Duey

 

[Strike]

I belief the Griffon now needs what is called a "flight functional check", baby brother to the Test Flight, and only requires a qualified AC to fly, not an MTP.  That's pulling the head off and the tranny mast...pretty big stuff. 

...provided there have not been any adjustments to the blades.  Same for the tail rotor.  Given the config of the Griffon head it would be impossible for such a mast mounted system and therefore a moot point.  Depending on the head system fo these helos (specifically the 412) the US is talking about, this may also be the reason they are going for a nose mounted system.  I remember Smytty sending the flight an article wrt their move towards this sytem and the reasoning behind it.  Of course, with my 90 emails that I had to go through that day, I think it ended up getting tossed in the shuffle -- or lost in my "personal" folder.  :

 

[Good2Golf]

...provided there have not been any adjustments to the blades.   Same for the tail rotor.   Given the config of the Griffon head it would be impossible for such a mast mounted system and therefore a moot point.   Depending on the head system fo these helos (specifically the 412) the US is talking about, this may also be the reason they are going for a nose mounted system.   I remember Smytty sending the flight an article wrt their move towards this sytem and the reasoning behind it.   Of course, with my 90 emails that I had to go through that day, I think it ended up getting tossed in the shuffle -- or lost in my "personal" folder.   :

Strike, you mean one of these?

Bell Helicopter Responds to Army's RFP for Armed Reconnaissance Helicopter with the Bell ARH

Aviation Today article on US Army ARH and LUH programs


Cheers
Duey

 

[Rammy]

Hey Guys,

Since I was young, a Helicopter pilot has been a dream for me and I'd like to tryout to be a griffon pilot.

I just have a few questions for pilots here(if any) or people with a good knowledge,

As far as physicaly fit, what would be a good training and what exacly do I need? I'm not that fit right now, but I plan on working out starting this summer and watching everything I eat etc...I'm almost 16, so I have a long way to go.

Also, in how many stages and how long does it take to be a Pilot? Where does the training take place ? I'm in Montreal at the moment.

I've read that I need a university degree to apply, would a Technique in piloting(forgot the exact name) at Chicoutimi count as that ?

Thanks in advance

-Rammy

 

[Inch]

Good to see someone with a desire to fly helicopters, most guys complain about having to go, but then end up loving it when they get there.

You don't need to be Olympic athlete fit, but you still have to meet the minimum fitness standard for the CF. 2.4km run in 12 min, 30 pushups, and 30 situps is a good place to start.

Pilot training in particular (not including basic training, aircrew selection and second language school), is done in 3 major parts, with a bunch of other 1-2 week courses in between. The first part is primary flying training in Portage la Prairie, followed by basic flying training in Moose Jaw, then basic helicopter school back in Portage la Prairie. After BHS you'll get your wings and posted to a sqn, the 3 realistic choices are 408 Sqn in Edmonton, 427 Sqn in Petawawa and 430 Sqn in Valcartier. After that there's the operational training unit (OTU) at 403 Sqn in Gagetown where you learn to fly the Griffon in it's tactical helicopter role.

Depending on the demand, the Chicoutimi diploma may be sufficient, I have a diploma in Aviation Technology from Sault College and I got in, though for a while they stopped taking people with college diplomas. They still prefer the university degree though since the CF wants a degreed officer. You would probably end up having to get one later just like I'm supposed to.

 

[Sf2]

don't forget you can go CSS (combat support) at Cold Lake, Bagotville, or Goose Bay in a search and rescue role - in which case you'd only have to do the Basic First Officer course in Gagetown, about 2months, and skip the TFO, Tactical First Officer course, which is another month.

 

[ArmyAviator]

Short Final: I think this young lad was talking about becoming a real Griffon Pilots  ;D  (Shields up Mr Sulu)

Rammy

  Inch laid it out pretty good for you.  You are old enough now to talk to a recruiter.  They can answer some of the specifics for what type of education you need.  CEGEP by itself will not be satisfactory but I believe there are follow on programmes in Chicoutammi (Spelling?) that will meet the requirements.  After that it is hard work, determination and a little bit of luck that will carry you through. 

  As for exercise.  The minimum is just the basic fitness and you must pass the Aircrew medical (The medical itself is more comprehensive and discriminating than the general CF medical).  If you want to reduce the risks for long term back a neck problems I suggest you add exercises that strengthen those muscles to a general fitness programme.  Helicopters and particularly Griffon pilots using NVGs all the time are hell on your back and neck.

 

[Sf2]

REAL griffon pilot huh?  ;D

 

[Rammy]

Thanks guys for all the info, I think my next step will be to talk to a recruiter....Oh and ArmyAviator, telling me that Griffon pilots often use NVG, just makes me want to be a pilot way more  ;D (I'm that kid that simulates everything in real life to helicopters)

 

[Sf2]

good luck!

And you think the NVG's are heavy - have you felt 2 G while fiddling for that damn GPS AUTO advisory with a HUD on yet?

 

[Rammy]

good luck!

And you think the NVG's are heavy - have you felt 2 G while fiddling for that darn GPS AUTO advisory with a HUD on yet?

Saddly no, but I did intend on trying the orbite at laronde this year  ;D

No Heads Up Display there though

 

[ArmyAviator]

Oh and ArmyAviator, telling me that Griffon pilots often use NVG, just makes me want to be a pilot way more  (I'm that kid that simulates everything in real life to helicopters)

Rammy

Excellent attitude.  I wish you all the best.  keep up the hard work, stay healthy and be persistant with the recruiter (respectively so).  Looking forward to seeing you bashing about the battlefield at 15 ft.

 

[Good2Golf]

Rammy, if you read page 30 of the recently released Defence Policy Statement (DOWNLOAD HERE), you'll note that there are some interesting capabilities coming down the road for tactical helicopters, in particular medium/heavy-lift for Special Operations and the Standing Contingecy Task Force.   Let me just say that by the time you've trainined through to Wings' Standard, you will have some very cool kit to aviate!   Used to be years back that helos were considered beneath many "true pilots" in the CF...never true, but especially true in today and in the years to come.   Keep a very close eye on the media in the near future...you will see the glimmer of some very, very interesting projects to come...folks will be kicking down the doors to be part of the Tac Aviator team"!   Hu-ah!

Cheers,
Duey

 

[pipstah]

Yup, I think its the perfect timing to get in and by the time you get qualified you get all the new toys  8)

Nothing beats flying at 15 ft and make the troopers going down  :

 

[Sheerin]

Hey how's it going?  Anyway I was just walking to my library this morning when I saw what looked a lot like a griffon painted in SAR colours. 

Are the Griffons being used because of the lack of availbility of the cormorant or have there always been griffon's used as backup for SAR helicopters?

Thanks

Oh and i'm sorry if there is already a thread on this - did a quick search and came up with a lot of threads about both aircraft but didn't see anything about griffon for SAR.

 

[AmmoTech90]

There are Griffons in the SAR role, in Goose Bay and elsewhere.  After the crash in Goose Bay a couple of years ago the Griffons were repainted in SAR colours so that they are more visible.

 

[Sheerin]

Thanks... was just kinda surprised to see a SAR griffon flying over Peterorough this morning....