CH-146 Griffon

[YZT580]

800 million dollars to upgrade 85 aircraft is absolutely insane. The newest airframe is 20 years old.  We could replace them with brand new Black Hawks for very little more or if you prefer, more airbuses and have a far superior aircraft that is good until at least 2040.   

 

[PuckChaser]

Especially if they still cant make it be able to carry an infantry section of 8 with rucks when it's full of fuel...

 

[Retired and Broken]

Especially if they still cant make it be able to carry an infantry section of 8 with rucks when it's full of fuel...

Or more than one critically ill patient in SAR.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

what is the engine upgrade?

 

[Retired AF Guy]

what is the engine upgrade?

From the above link; " Bell Helicopter Textron Canada Limited will be undertaking design work to extend the life of Canada’s fleet of 85 CH-146 Griffon helicopters to at least 2031."

"The first phase of this life extension is the definition phase, during which Bell Helicopter Textron Canada Limited – the original equipment manufacturer – will develop design changes to upgrade the helicopter’s avionics systems, engines, and cockpit displays, and integrate sensor systems."

From the 10.01.2018 issue of the Canadian Defence Review:

"GRIFFON LIMITED LIFE EXTENSION PROJECT

The GLLE project will extend the life of the CH-146 Griffon beyond the current Estimated Life Expectancy so that the aircraft can continue to be operationally relevant and remain a vital contributor to the readiness of the Canadian Army and the Canadian Special Operations Force Command units well into the future.

The extension will bridge the gap until a replacement capability is acquired through the Tactical Reconnaissance Utility Helicopter project. GLLE aims to extend CH-146 operat­ing life to 2030+ through the replacement of obsolete avionics, instrumentation and displays with an integrated digital systems architecture. It may also include new digitally controlled engines as a package.

Flight simulators will also be modified to conform to the fleet. Finally, the project will ensure integrated logistic support, supply of initial spares and training. According to an April 2017 RCAF Director of Air Requirements (DAR) document, the preliminary estimate of the cost of GLLE ranges between $500 million to $1.5 billion."


Interesting, back in 2011, when the last contract for a CH-146 Griffon upgrade was awarded, the plan was to retire it in 2021.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

800 million dollars to upgrade 85 aircraft is absolutely insane. The newest airframe is 20 years old.  We could replace them with brand new Black Hawks for very little more or if you prefer, more airbuses and have a far superior aircraft that is good until at least 2040. 

Still a baby!!  8)

 

[Retired AF Guy]

800 million dollars to upgrade 85 aircraft is absolutely insane. The newest airframe is 20 years old.  We could replace them with brand new Black Hawks for very little more or if you prefer, more airbuses and have a far superior aircraft that is good until at least 2040. 

At $21.5(US) million ea., the Black Hawk is one of the most expensive helicopters out there. At that price the RCAF could afford about 32 helicopters, less than half what we have now.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

At that price the RCAF could afford about 32 helicopters, less than half what we have now.

But each with three times the capability of a Griffon ... so it's a wash?    8)

 

[YZT580]

last order I saw was for approx 100 aircraft for just over a billion.  That works out to about 10 million each so 85 would be 850,000 u.s. And you get twice the aircraft for the money

 

[Retired AF Guy]

But each with three times the capability of a Griffon ... so it's a wash?    8)

The old dilemma about capabilities versus cost .. and we all know how the Canadian government would decide.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

From the above link; " Bell Helicopter Textron Canada Limited will be undertaking design work to extend the life of Canada’s fleet of 85 CH-146 Griffon helicopters to at least 2031."

"The first phase of this life extension is the definition phase, during which Bell Helicopter Textron Canada Limited – the original equipment manufacturer – will develop design changes to upgrade the helicopter’s avionics systems, engines, and cockpit displays, and integrate sensor systems."

From the 10.01.2018 issue of the Canadian Defence Review:

"GRIFFON LIMITED LIFE EXTENSION PROJECT

The GLLE project will extend the life of the CH-146 Griffon beyond the current Estimated Life Expectancy so that the aircraft can continue to be operationally relevant and remain a vital contributor to the readiness of the Canadian Army and the Canadian Special Operations Force Command units well into the future.

The extension will bridge the gap until a replacement capability is acquired through the Tactical Reconnaissance Utility Helicopter project. GLLE aims to extend CH-146 operat­ing life to 2030+ through the replacement of obsolete avionics, instrumentation and displays with an integrated digital systems architecture. It may also include new digitally controlled engines as a package.

Flight simulators will also be modified to conform to the fleet. Finally, the project will ensure integrated logistic support, supply of initial spares and training. According to an April 2017 RCAF Director of Air Requirements (DAR) document, the preliminary estimate of the cost of GLLE ranges between $500 million to $1.5 billion."


Interesting, back in 2011, when the last contract for a CH-146 Griffon upgrade was awarded, the plan was to retire it in 2021.

So no new engines?

 

[kev994]

I thought the transmission was the limiting factor? I don’t see anything about that.

 

[daftandbarmy]

At $21.5(US) million ea., the Black Hawk is one of the most expensive helicopters out there. At that price the RCAF could afford about 32 helicopters, less than half what we have now.

I know it's a bigger air frame, and I have no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to aircraft, but I'm a big Super Puma fan...

$15.5m USD per unit (over 10 years ago) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_AS332_Super_Puma

 

[Loch Sloy!]

UH-1Y production for the USMC just finished... Might be a good time to get a deal on airframes that are everything the Griffon isn't! Buy about 20 Cobras while we're at it.

 

[Journeyman]

.. and we all know how the Canadian government would decide.

Best photo ops (bonus points if costumes could be worn), 'supportive' political riding, with no less than 25% of airframes identifying as female?    op:

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Best photo ops (bonus points if costumes could be worn), 'supportive' political riding, with no less than 25% of airframes identifying as female?    op:

I think that is 100%. I have never heard of an aircraft referred to as anything other than the feminine gender.

 

[Journeyman]

I have never heard of an aircraft referred to as anything other than the feminine gender.

Ah, clearly an example of male oppression, obliging aircraft to adhere to outdated misogynistic standards, denying them the right to self-identify as any number  of other genders!  Subjugator!!

/sunny ways 


(OK, I'll stop wasting bandwidth here    )

 

[daftandbarmy]

Ah, clearly an example of male oppression, obliging aircraft to adhere to outdated misogynistic standards, denying them the right to self-identify as any number  of other genders!  Subjugator!!

/sunny ways 


(OK, I'll stop wasting bandwidth here    )

You forgot 'Cultural Appropriator'.  ;D

 

[Old Sweat]

You forgot 'Cultural Appropriator'.  ;D

What would the aircrew qualification badge look like?

 

[LiveFightMove]

"Midlife" Upgrade, it's going to begin in the next 2 years and all aircraft will be finished around 2027 or something? 800 Million to extend the life until 2031... I think they should have saved that 800 million to go towards our next utility helicopter, but let's be honest, the CH-146 Griffon will be in the RCAF until 2040. The replacement discussion hasn't even been mentioned, and when that does you can start the 15 year countdown.