CH-146 Griffon

[Nfld Sapper]

I understand they no longer recce the underside of the Confederation bridge...

No but they buzz us at Swan Lake....

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I understand they no longer recce the underside of the Confederation bridge...

Too bad really.  The navigation span is absolutely high enough for this type of flying.  ;D

 

[Good2Golf]

Too bad really.  The navigation span is absolutely high enough for this type of flying.  ;D

Heck, you could even fit the SGOD underneath that thing? ;D

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The navigation span is 60m or so...ya!  Doubt anyone would notice that itty bitty plane if it was tried... 8)

 

[Ashkan08]

Shouldn't we be looking to purchase a gunship like the Viper or Apache to escort the Griffons and Chinooks when they are on operations such as the ones in Mali?

 

[YZT580]

The Griffon is the escort.  And yes, it would be nice to have proper rotor wing attack aircraft.  Now just consider that phrase 'attack aircraft'.  Can you imagine our current government actually agreeing to purchase a machine that is exclusively designed for killing?  Not a chance.  Be happy they allow the Griffon.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Be happy they allow don't know we have helicopters like the Griffon.

:Tin-Foil-Hat:

 

[Ashkan08]

The Griffon is the escort.  And yes, it would be nice to have proper rotor wing attack aircraft.  Now just consider that phrase 'attack aircraft'.  Can you imagine our current government actually agreeing to purchase a machine that is exclusively designed for killing?  Not a chance.  Be happy they allow the Griffon.

You have a point there.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

The Griffon is the escort.  And yes, it would be nice to have proper rotor wing attack aircraft.  Now just consider that phrase 'attack aircraft'.  Can you imagine our current government actually agreeing to purchase a machine that is exclusively designed for killing?  Not a chance.  Be happy they allow the Griffon.

That's why instead of calling it an "attack helicopter" you call it an "armed reconnaissance helicopter"

Like the Tiger ARH:

 

[dimsum]

That's why instead of calling it an "attack helicopter" you call it an "armed reconnaissance helicopter"

Like the Tiger ARH:

You mean the (paraphrased from folks familiar with that airframe) "useless piece of crap"?  :nod:

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/defence/defence-chooses-to-repair-rather-than-replace-grounded-helicopters/news-story/3e34e5f7d0a641b78db0806d69c01319

 

[Good2Golf]

Yeah, they never really wanted the Tiger...specs adjusted to fit the machine, vice the Apaches they were aiming for.  That said, the French seem to operate the Tiger quite effectively.

Regards
G2G

 

[Ashkan08]

You mean the (paraphrased from folks familiar with that airframe) "useless piece of crap"?  :nod:

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/defence/defence-chooses-to-repair-rather-than-replace-grounded-helicopters/news-story/3e34e5f7d0a641b78db0806d69c01319

Although the Tiger isn't the best ( armed reconnaissance helicopter) helicopter available, it would still be adequate for the operations we are currently in. It has been tested in Mali by both Germany and France and seems to have been quite effective.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Do the Griffons in Mali have FN M3M GAU-21 .50 Cal machine guns in each door, or just in one with C-6 in other? Hope not dumb question, assume no M-134 Dillon miniguns:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mali-helicopters-un-mission-1.4627507

Photo from this official RCAF tweet, sure seems to highlight firepower:
https://twitter.com/RCAF_ARC/status/1023944178764529665

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Good2Golf]

The load out can vary, but often when dissimilar weapons are used, the section aircraft will often mirror each other to ensure full azimuthal type coverage within the formation, ie. Lead GAU port, Dillon starboard, #2 Dillon port, GAU starboard.  If no Dillon, a C6 often complements the GAU.  Specific TTPs vary, and something not likely to be referred to in detail here.

Regards
G2G

 

[Underway]

If a replacement utility helicopter was purchased, what's a good type to replace it with? A direct replacement for the utility role vice some other role.

 

[PuckChaser]

If a replacement utility helicopter was purchased, what's a good type to replace it with?  I'm looking at a direct replacement for the utility role.

Something that can carry an infantry section along with door guns? The Griffon seems to only be able to pick guns or troops, and at max weight its got awfully short legs, which is fine if we only plan on fighting an hour or so away from the airfield.

 

[Ashkan08]

If a replacement utility helicopter was purchased, what's a good type to replace it with?  I'm looking at a direct replacement for the utility role.

The Sikorsky Black Hawk would be nice. Can almost hold double the weight the Griffon can.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Even a USMC style "upgrade" would help.

 

[Good2Golf]

As a NATO/Like-minded-nation doctrinally compliant "UTTH", the UH-60, UH-1Y or H725.

That said, in the "don't look a gift horse in the mouth" department, the Griffon isn't necessarily a bad machine for the most part, and it was a huge improvement over the Twin Huey.  You'll have a very hard time finding anyone who flew both the CH-135 and the CH-146, say they take the 135...unless of course they were supporting a small-scale airshow at a reunion of Viet Nam vets at the time, and seeing a few hundred vets come up and hug the chopper with tears of appreciation in their eyes...year, maybe then, as an exception.

:2c:

Regards
G2G

 

[OceanBonfire]

The Griffon Limited Life-Extension (GLLE) project

January 26 2019 – Ottawa, Ontario – National Defence / Canadian Armed Forces

As outlined in Canada’s defence policy, Strong, Secure, Engaged, the Government of Canada is making investments to re-capitalize and extend the life of equipment to ensure our women and men of the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) have the equipment they need to fulfill the Canadian Armed Forces’ (CAF) core missions.

In support of this, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Canadian Heritage and Multiculturalism Andy Fillmore, on behalf of Defence Minister Harjit S. Sajjan, announced today that Bell Helicopter Textron Canada Limited will be undertaking design work to extend the life of Canada’s fleet of 85 CH-146 Griffon helicopters to at least 2031.

The first phase of this life extension is the definition phase, during which Bell Helicopter Textron Canada Limited – the original equipment manufacturer – will develop design changes to upgrade the helicopter’s avionics systems, engines, and cockpit displays, and integrate sensor systems.

This definition work, valued at up to $90 million (including taxes), will be performed under the existing support contract for the CH-146, which was awarded to Bell Helicopter Textron Canada Limited in 2011. The overall scope of the Griffon Limited Life Extension project is estimated to be valued at approximately $800 million (taxes included).

The Griffon, Canada’s multi-purpose utility helicopter, is essential to CAF operations both at home and abroad. The helicopter fills a number of functions, including tactical troop transport, reconnaissance, escort and surveillance, casualty evacuation, disaster relief, special operations aviation support, and search and rescue.

Upgrading the CH-146 will ensure that it continues to make important contributions to the success of the full range of the CAF’s missions and operations.

https://www.facebook.com/NationalDefenceGC/posts/325599258065229

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/news/2019/01/government-of-canada-invests-in-the-modernization-of-the-royal-canadian-air-forces-ch-146-griffon.html