CDN/US Covid-related political discussion

[Halifax Tar]

If people wont take the vaccine then its not a Federal or Provincial problem. There is a reason people wont take the vaccinations, that either needs to be disproven or if it cant then the vaccine needs to be replaced with one the people will take.

And this is also why while I will get vaccinated, I want to be one of the last. I've been in the Navy long enough to know I only rush to the head of only two lines, stand easy soup and foreign currency exchange.

 

[Altair]

If people wont take the vaccine then its not a Federal or Provincial problem. There is a reason people wont take the vaccinations, that either needs to be disproven or if it cant then the vaccine needs to be replaced with one the people will take.

And this is also why while I will get vaccinated, I want to be one of the last. I've been in the Navy long enough to know I only rush to the head of only two lines, stand easy soup and foreign currency exchange.

If the age group that is being targeted does want the vaccine skip them and move to the next.

Teachers are begging for vaccines, get them next.

 

[Mick]

Considering the US is starting everyone that wants a vaccine can have one by end April, and Canada's stretch goal is September, its much more plausible evil Doug Ford is hoarding vaccines to kill people instead of believing the near weekly stories of 6 figure missed or delayed shipments.

Show me the contract details and I'll believe there's distribution issues. Until then, real data (not one cherry picked stat like freezers) shows a trend of missing or delayed shipments from the Feds.

Biden moves deadline for all US adults to be eligible for Covid vaccine to April 19

President Joe Biden announced on Tuesday that he is moving up his deadline for states to make all American adults eligible for a coronavirus vaccine by almost two weeks, but said Americans must remain on a "war footing" to beat the virus.

www.cnn.com

The US is not stating that all Americans wanting a vaccine can receive it by end of April.

President Biden is directing states to ensure that all American adults are made eligible to receive a vaccine starting April 19.

Becoming eligible is not the same as receiving a shot in the arm.

 

[Halifax Tar]

If the age group that is being targeted does want the vaccine skip them and move to the next.

Teachers are begging for vaccines, get them next.

How about stop targeting age groups and just open it up to a first come first serve system ? Then if people still wont take the vaccines thats a whole other issue as I addressed in my previous post.

 

[Altair]

Considering the US is starting everyone that wants a vaccine can have one by end April, and Canada's stretch goal is September, its much more plausible evil Doug Ford is hoarding vaccines to kill people instead of believing the near weekly stories of 6 figure missed or delayed shipments.

Replace evil with incompetent.

And toss in Premier Legault.

Show me the contract details and I'll believe there's distribution issues. Until then, real data (not one cherry picked stat like freezers) shows a trend of missing or delayed shipments from the Feds.

You show us the most recent missed delivery.

 

[lenaitch]

Again, if people want the perfect experience, they can wait in the queue for the Moderna or Pfizer vaccines delivered by a medical professional.

For those who don't want to get sick or die, or pass it on to others who might get sick or die, have a veterinarian or soldier give the AZ poke, and get it over with. Open to all ages, waiver signed, done.



I've seen and personally witnessed enough cases of people with special needs children, people who cannot bend their arms and thus cannot reasonably put on a mask, people with young kids getting flak by business over just the mask mandates to trust the private sector to properly deal with any vaccine passport idea.

So unless we want to see immunocompromised individuals get completely shut out by society because they cannot be vaccinated, I would rather just vaccinate every one who want one, and others assume the risk if they do not.

You make a good point. As a society, we've strived to destigmatized folks with disabilities. There is so much that is unknown or confusing about this virus and the vaccines. With the flu or common cold, I or my wife would have no concerns with visiting my 99 year old FiL or immunocompromised SiL if we were asymptomatic (i.e. 'feeling fine') but with Covid ,even after vaccination, that confidence is now unclear.

A couple of weeks ago, there were 'rallies' at a couple of area grocery stores by groups of people who claimed they had medical exemptions. They didn't actually, you know, shop; they wandered the stores loudly, making recordings and touching stuff (two were later let go from their PSW jobs at a LTC). I highly doubt any of them were unless there is a club, and folks with legitimate limitations should be rightly pissed.

 

[Altair]

How about stop targeting age groups and just open it up to a first come first serve system ? Then if people still wont take the vaccines thats a whole other issues as I addressed in my previous post.

A hybrid system would work just fine.

Let's say peel region has 30k vaccines for that day. If 15k of the targeted age group sign up for appointments, great. Otherwise open the the other 15k to the general population.

Enough is enough, it's beyond time the provinces got their asses in gear.

 

[OldSolduer]

I’m immunocompromised and I took both shots, no issues at all.

 

[Halifax Tar]

A hybrid system would work just fine.

Let's say peel region has 30k vaccines for that day. If 15k of the targeted age group sign up for appointments, great. Otherwise open the the other 15k to the general population.

Enough is enough, it's beyond time the provinces got their asses in gear.

We're complicating this system by trying to pinpoint demographics. First come first serve. Inmates to the back of the line. Sorry not sorry.

 

[Altair]

We're complicating this system by trying to pinpoint demographics. First come first serve. Inmates to the back of the line. Sorry not sorry.

I would be fine with this approach as well, especially with 1.4 million vaccines sitting around and another 800k on the way for Ontario alone.

You have people like monkman who are very uptight about appointments, but like you, I frankly don't give a damn.

I'm fine with compromise, or opening the floodgates. Either way, everyone will be vaccinated at least once by June. I don't care how we get to that point, so long as we do. As of right now, the problem lies with the provinces not ramping up their rollout rate to meet the increased supply. And for the love of God, if they can't handle it now, what will happen in June when Ontario will be getting almost a million shots of Pfizer alone per week?

 

[Mick]

I just read an article in the Ottawa Citizen where Doug Ford says every vaccine in the freezer is spoken for by appointments over the next 2 weeks. And all we need is a steady supply....over to you Justin.
.

If we're reading the same article, it states:

"Ford countered criticism that the province continues to have large amounts of vaccine doses in freezers — around 1.5 million as of Tuesday. He said the vast majority of those doses are already scheduled to go into peoples’ arms and the bulk arrived over the weekend."

Scheduled to go into arms doesn't mean "spoken for". Aren't all vaccines eventually scheduled to go into arms?

I'm trying to follow your logic - are you implying that the number of people signing up for these shots is affected by shipments from the Feds? 1.4 million shots arrived, so only 1.4 million people signed up? More shipments = more vaccines "spoken for"? They still need to be administers, and the system isn't vaccinating as quickly as advertised, hence the growing stockpile.

As others have convincingly argued, provincial distribution needs to become more effective before federal supply can be blamed.

 

[Altair]

I’m immunocompromised and I took both shots, no issues at all.

I don't think every immunocompromised individual is going to want to do that.

Which is fine. Once the majority of the population is vaccinated I'm fine with killing the nanny state.

Someone doesn't want it? Fine. They and whoever is left get sick, it shouldn't overwhelm the Healthcare system.

 

[lenaitch]

Ontario is locked down because 500 or so people are in ICU with covid. No increased capacity, no field hospitals to handle a surge, no increase of qualified nurses and doctors.

[/QUOTE]

Just off the top of my head, Sunnybrook HSC in Toronto and RVH in Barrie have modular facilities set up on their properties. No idea what they are used for but that takes additional staff. There was a news item a couple of days ago which, of course, I cannot find, of a doctor describing how many specialized personnel it takes to manage or at least intubate a single ICU patient on a ventilator. I think the number was eight, and some of the specialties I had never heard of before. The point being that some of the medical capacity we now apparently need aren't found on the street. A neighbour's daughter was most of the way through her BScN education but was curtailed before complete certification. As a technically unqualified student, she hasn't stopped in over a year.

 

[Altair]

Just off the top of my head, Sunnybrook HSC in Toronto and RVH in Barrie have modular facilities set up on their properties. No idea what they are used for but that takes additional staff. There was a news item a couple of days ago which, of course, I cannot find, of a doctor describing how many specialized personnel it takes to manage or at least intubate a single ICU patient on a ventilator. I think the number was eight, and some of the specialties I had never heard of before. The point being that some of the medical capacity we now apparently need aren't found on the street. A neighbour's daughter was most of the way through her BScN education but was curtailed before complete certification. As a technically unqualified student, she hasn't stopped in over a year.

Be that as it may, the province of Ontario has 14.7 million people in it.

510ish are in hospital, and the system is nearing collapse.

The yanks have had cases of covid /100,000 double and triple that of Ontario and their system has yet to collapse. While their death rates are also much higher, covid is also much more widespread which is the contributing factor.

So how can what amounts to a rounding error of people in ICU put 14.7 million people in lockdown? How small were the margins before covid, and how are they still so small one year into this?

 

[Halifax Tar]

This has turned into Provincial and Federal politicians standing at the dyke with one finger trying to plug the hole and the other pointing at the opposite side they hold responsible for making the hole. Classic Canadian politics. Its more about partisan positions than creating and enacting a solution.

If you ever wanted an example of what bloated government bureaucracy looked like and how it complicated the smallest of endeavors, and weren't convinced by the CAF, just look at what were into now.

Again, stop with the demographic garbage. Want the vaccine ? Sign up, wait your turn. Don't want it ? Wait for a different one or frig off. Act accordingly either way.

 

[Altair]

This has turned into Provincial and Federal politicians standing at the dyke with one finger trying to plug the hole and the other pointing at the opposite side they hold responsible for making the hole. Classic Canadian politics. Its more about partisan positions than creating and enacting a solution.

If you ever wanted an example of what bloated government bureaucracy looked like and how it complicated the smallest of endeavors, and weren't convinced by the CAF, just look at what were into now.

Again, stop with the demographic garbage. Want the vaccine ? Sign up, wait your turn. Don't want it ? Wait for a different one or frig off. Act accordingly either way.

Let's still be clear, even tossing the demographic rules in the bin mean nothing if the provinces don't light a fire under their rollout and double, if not triple their current rates of vaccinations.

 

[Altair]

I just read an article in the Ottawa Citizen where Doug Ford says every vaccine in the freezer is spoken for by appointments over the next 2 weeks. And all we need is a steady supply....over to you Justin.
.

Doug Ford is pissing on your head and calling it rain.

He has 18 days supply at current rates of vaccination, 9 days if he can meet his lofty 150k a day, and 800k coming in by the 11th, so no, that makes no sense.

He has the supply. He needs to get it out of the door.

 

[mariomike]

The party politics involved in this pandemic is like "deja vu all over again" ( thanks to Yogi Berra ).

Were any lessons learned from SARS?

Lack of government co-operation
While praising the work of frontline health care workers despite a lack of funding and skilled workers, the committee says they were hampered by the conflicting responses of all government levels.

Naylor, who earlier called Canada's handling of the outbreak an "international embarrassment," blamed it on a lack of leadership, poor collaboration between provincial and federal health organizations and longstanding funding and workforce shortages in the field of public health care.

Canada has to learn from the hard lessons of SARS and look at the outbreak as a "reminder, warning and opportunity" to renew the public health system.

Full story here, if interested,

https://www.cbc.ca/news2/background/sars/sars_report.html

Also, why Canada does not have Covid-19 vaccine production. Again, lots of political finger-pointing,

Why we do not have COVID-19 vaccine production in Canada and what we can do about it

For future vaccine self-sufficiency, Canada needs a university-based health research ecosystem that starts at the bench and continues through to production.

www.thestar.com

Unfortunately, Connaught was sold, first by the University of Toronto to the Canadian Development Corporation (CDC) in 1972, and then privatized in 1986 as part of the Mulroney government’s dismantlement of the CDC. Ever since, Canada has had virtually no vaccine production capacity.

 

[Altair]

The party politics involved in this pandemic is like "deja vu all over again" ( thanks to Yogi Berra ).

Were any lessons learned from SARS?







Full story here, if interested,

https://www.cbc.ca/news2/background/sars/sars_report.html

Also, why Canada does not have Covid-19 vaccine production. Again, lots of political finger-pointing,

Why we do not have COVID-19 vaccine production in Canada and what we can do about it

For future vaccine self-sufficiency, Canada needs a university-based health research ecosystem that starts at the bench and continues through to production.

www.thestar.com

And every government since had the ability to address it, but have not.

Campbell

Chretien

Martin

Harper

Trudeau

None did, no one saw the need, or they trusted allied nations to not serve the interests of their citizens first if a global pandemic came to pass.

As for the private sector, well, they are clearly not well placed to step up in a crisis or maintain a capacity they view as unprofitable.

Hopefully we learn to repatriate some vital industries and nationalize them if we must.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Let's still be clear, even tossing the demographic rules in the bin mean nothing if the provinces don't light a fire under their rollout and double, if not triple their current rates of vaccinations.

Is it the rollout (process) or are people not signing up for the vaccine ? For some reason I have it in my head the AZ vaccine has had some growing pains and people are somewhat unwilling to take it.

Why doesn't Canada have as much of the other two options ?