CDN/US Covid-related political discussion

[dapaterson]

My understanding is that PHAC has informed the provinces of the delivery schedule, and informs them as it changes.

If provincial governments don't act on that information / hire unqualified people at $20,000 a month to manage their rollouts, well, that's on the provinces.

No level of government has covered themselves with glory on this file (though the Territories and Atlantic Canada have been least worst).

 

[Good2Golf]

My understanding is that PHAC has informed the provinces of the delivery schedule, and informs them as it changes.

If provincial governments don't act on that information / hire unqualified people at $20,000 a month to manage their rollouts, well, that's on the provinces.

No level of government has covered themselves with glory on this file (though the Territories and Atlantic Canada have been least worst).

Vaccines for COVID-19: Shipments and deliveries

If this is the information you’re referring to, the forecasts for Moderna only gives three weeks and AstraZeneca no future information. Additionally, there have been more in forecast deliveries of Pfizer to the provinces than the current flat-rate ~398k to Ont forecast advises. Logically, calling provinces, any province, on not being able to predict that PHAC’s forecast could be several times more than the forecast quantities is disingenuous.

 

[Remius]

How much of that is the pharmaceutical companies saying “surprise”.

if the feds can get surprise shipments to the province then the province should be able to deliver them to patients.

 

[Weinie]

How much of that is the pharmaceutical companies saying “surprise”.

if the feds can get surprise shipments to the province then the province should be able to deliver them to patients.

Now you are talking a bunch of overtime.

 

[Remius]

Now you are talking a bunch of overtime.

Whatever it takes.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Whatever it takes.

Except those folks are tired.......

 

[Altair]

Except those folks are tired.......

Hire more folks.

Call in the military.

Whatever it takes.

 

[Altair]

I mean, what have the provinces being doing for the past year? Did they not realize vaccines were coming?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Nope. No one did.....still don't, just promises

 

[blacktriangle]

Have we increased ICU capacity, purchased or manufactured additional ventilators etc? Or is it staffing constraints that are the main hiccup? This has been going on for over a year now. What would be happening right now if there were no viable vaccines at all? Surely we didn't bank entirely on vaccines & lockdowns...right???

As usual, it seems that those at the coal face do their best and burn themselves out while the highly-paid "leaders" do...whatever it is they do...from comfortable offices, homes, and cottages.

 

[Weinie]

I mean, what have the provinces being doing for the past year? Did they not realize vaccines were coming?

Yes they did. But then when they finally arrived they had to do the complicated logistical planning and delivery to ensure that LTCF's, seniors, hospital staff, first responders, inmates, natives, and high risk candidates got them first, as per medical advice. Couple that with a lack of qualified people(because they were doing other hospital stuff), to put shot's in arms, and you can see how it can be challenging.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Have we increased ICU capacity, purchased or manufactured additional ventilators etc? Or is it staffing constraints that are the main hiccup? This has been going on for over a year now. What would be happening right now if there were no viable vaccines at all? Surely we didn't bank entirely on vaccines & lockdowns...right???

As usual, it seems that those at the coal face do their best and burn themselves out while the highly-paid "leaders" do...whatever it is they do...from comfortable offices, homes, and cottages.

Yup....give money for folks to stay home and learn nothing instead of saying we need lots of trained people. Want money? Have we got a course for you. But votes....

 

[blacktriangle]

Yup....give money for folks to stay home and learn nothing instead of saying we need lots of trained people. Want money? Have we got a course for you. But votes....

Exactly my thoughts. Sad.

 

[Altair]

Yes they did. But then when they finally arrived they had to do the complicated logistical planning and delivery to ensure that LTCF's, seniors, hospital staff, first responders, inmates, natives, and high risk candidates got them first, as per medical advice. Couple that with a lack of qualified people(because they were doing other hospital stuff), to put shot's in arms, and you can see how it can be challenging.

I can appreciate the challenges involved.

But they also had a year of lead time. Summer wasn't too bad in terms of covid numbers, they had a chance to pivot from utter crisis mode to future planning mode. Vaccines were finishing trials in November, getting approval in December, deliveries starting shortly after.

And then there was the slow procurement of January , February, early March. So from in absolute terms, march to march, if i'm being generous, july to march, to prepare for this. US states have had a lot more supply being thrown at them and they are flying. Meanwhile here we are, the supply is finally arriving and the provinces are looking like they are having issues ramping up. I mean, if you have places who are doing 70+, 60+, and appointments to spare, open it up to everyone. Offer Pfizer and Moderna to every adult if you have the capacity. Let everyone register on the website, and if those in the age appointment window are not filling every appointment, let every able bodied adult that wants a vaccine that day apply to get one.

If you don't have enough people, hire more. If you cannot hire more, bring in the soldiers. Get med techs training inf to give vaccines, and ramp this up. Enough is enough.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

bring in the soldiers. Get med techs training inf to give vaccines, and ramp this up. Enough is enough.

WHAT?? So you CAN see its all the Feds fault?? [can't put a smug smiley face up for some reason, no aneurysm please lad, it's all fun]

 

[Weinie]

open it up to everyone. Offer Pfizer and Moderna to every adult if you have the capacity. Let everyone register on the website, and if those in the age appointment window are not filling every appointment, let every able bodied adult that wants a vaccine that day apply to get one.

If you don't have enough people, hire more. If you cannot hire more, bring in the soldiers. Get med techs training inf to give vaccines, and ramp this up. Enough is enough.

Seems simple enough. But that approach doesn't minimize spread or lockdowns. If anything, websites and 1-800 numbers will be overwhelmed /crash, and the resentment amongst "everyone" who doesn't get an appointment or a shot goes through the roof. Tempers flare, nepotism emerges, chaos ensues.

I would rather an orderly, medical advice-based approach to this, as opposed to first come. After all, you and I are in the low-risk category, so we can wait, right.

 

[Altair]

WHAT?? So you CAN see its all the Feds fault?? [can't put a smug smiley face up for some reason, no aneurysm please lad, it's all fun]

The feds cannot force the military onto the provinces, the provinces need to ask for the military.

 

[Altair]

Seems simple enough. But that approach doesn't minimize spread or lockdowns. If anything, websites and 1-800 numbers will be overwhelmed /crash, and the resentment amongst "everyone" who doesn't get an appointment or a shot goes through the roof. Tempers flare, nepotism emerges, chaos ensues.

I would rather an orderly, medical advice-based approach to this, as opposed to first come. After all, you and I are in the low-risk category, so we can wait, right.

Somehow amazon can handle millions of orders a day on their website, but every government website ever made crashes after 10 people try to use it at the same time.

I would like a mix of appointments and first come first serve. Every appointment has a vaccine to a name. But if you have more vaccines than appointments, then push the next group through. We can end this madness by July is we move quickly enough, saving lives in the process, and the economy.

Lets not make perfection the enemy of good.

 

[Weinie]

Somehow amazon can handle millions of orders a day on their website, but every government website ever made crashes after 10 people try to use it at the same time.

I would like a mix of appointments and first come first serve. Every appointment has a vaccine to a name. But if you have more vaccines than appointments, then push the next group through. We can end this madness by July is we move quickly enough, saving lives in the process, and the economy.

Lets not make perfection the enemy of good.

Amazon employs 1.3 million people worldwide, including a huge IT section, so that comparison may not be apt. Nonetheless, I see your point.

We are however, far from good, let alone perfection, on this, from procurement, to distribution, to storage, and eventual vaccination. A whole bunch of people are trying really hard to get this right. You are not the only person frustrated. But, most can empathize with the challenges that this presents.

 

[Altair]

Amazon employs 1.3 million people worldwide, including a huge IT section, so that comparison may not be apt. Nonetheless, I see your point.

We are however, far from good, let alone perfection, on this, from procurement, to distribution, to storage, and eventual vaccination. A whole bunch of people are trying really hard to get this right. You are not the only person frustrated. But, most can empathize with the challenges that this presents.

The spending going on right now is on par with WW2 in terms of the deficit and labour disruption.

But we have no increased capacity anywhere in the economy to show for it, and that is criminal.

Ontario is locked down because 500 or so people are in ICU with covid. No increased capacity, no field hospitals to handle a surge, no increase of qualified nurses and doctors.

No increase in qualified individuals to run the websites needed to book people for the most important vaccination program in 100 years.

No increase in the people qualified to give vaccines to people.

It would be funny if it were not so tragic. This is how to handle a pandemic on a shoestring budget but its costing as much as WW2.

So yes, I empathize with those dealing with the challenges being faced, from procurement, to logistics, to personnel. But I also am at the point of thinking we Canadians are just plain incompetent. The UK and USA have a lot of the same logistical issues we do and are flying, here in Canada, we finally have solved the supply issues and we are now running into issues on how to get people vaccinated.

Quebec, now on my S-list, has 800k in storage and vaccinated 40k today. Unacceptable.

Ontario, sitting on 1.5m in storage, doled out 72k when the province says they could do 150k a day. If you can do 150k a day, DO IT.