Canada's tanks

[childs56]

I've done almost every type of refueling in tanks, from every side. From slinging cans on the back deck to having my own echelons. Jerry cans are the way to go in tactical situations.

I guess it depends on the situation. I have never thought jerry cans were a prefered refuling method when a electric pump was available.

 

[OldSolduer]

I've done almost every type of refueling in tanks, from every side. From slinging cans on the back deck to having my own echelons. Jerry cans are the way to go in tactical situations.

I worked with the Strats very briefly on ex and the SSM I spoke with preferred Jerry Cans over bowsers.

 

[childs56]

I worked with the Strats very briefly on ex and the SSM I spoke with preferred Jerry Cans over bowsers.

If i was the SSM I would like nothing more then my Troops occupying their time topping off 600liters of diesel using jerry cans 25liters at a time.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

If i was the SSM I would like nothing more then my Troops occupying their time topping off 600liters of diesel using jerry cans 25liters at a time.

Well, instead, you can wait your turn for the POL in your tank for an hour , as a nice juicy target instead…

Better?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

If i was the SSM I would like nothing more then my Troops occupying their time topping off 600liters of diesel using jerry cans 25liters at a time.

You obviously have little concept of combat resupply or how it works then. Not a dig, just saying.

 

[childs56]

Well, instead, you can wait your turn for the POL in your tank for an hour , as a nice juicy target instead…

Better?

LOL An hour at the POL Because Canada only has one truck with one kinda working pump for the entire Brigade and has to go back and refuel before filling the next four tanks.

It took me about 5 mins to refuel my Tractor trailer with 6-700 liters of fuel switching to the other side punching in the pin code, wash the windows, log in my log book at. Then another 10 mins to fill the 1200 liters of fuel into the saddle tanks using a fuel pump switching sides. Jerry can would take close to a hour to do the same thing if everything was set up correct.

I mean if a person is topping up every few km with the jerry cans cool. I guess Canada really doesn't put many Kms on the tanks overall. But refueling 600plus liters using jerry cans is pretty time consuming.

Reality is we are not set up for it, heck were not set up properly for Jerry can refueling. But we make do with what we have.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

LOL An hour at the POL Because Canada only has one truck with one kinda working pump for the entire Brigade and has to go back and refuel before filling the next four tanks.

It took me about 5 mins to refuel my Tractor trailer with 6-700 liters of fuel switching to the other side punching in the pin code, wash the windows, log in my log book at. Then another 10 mins to fill the 1200 liters of fuel into the saddle tanks using a fuel pump switching sides. Jerry can would take close to a hour to do the same thing if everything was set up correct.

I mean if a person is topping up every few km with the jerry cans cool. I guess Canada really doesn't put many Kms on the tanks overall. But refueling 600plus liters using jerry cans is pretty time consuming.

Reality is we are not set up for it, heck were not set up properly for Jerry can refueling. But we make do with what we have.

You could not have picked a better user name…

 

[suffolkowner]

As a non military dude the idea of putting 1000L at 25L does seem ridiculous even a cheap pump can do over 100L a minute out of 1/2 ton if needed. I can see the value of fuel drops for sure.

 

[OldSolduer]

LOL An hour at the POL Because Canada only has one truck with one kinda working pump for the entire Brigade and has to go back and refuel before filling the next four tanks.

It took me about 5 mins to refuel my Tractor trailer with 6-700 liters of fuel switching to the other side punching in the pin code, wash the windows, log in my log book at. Then another 10 mins to fill the 1200 liters of fuel into the saddle tanks using a fuel pump switching sides. Jerry can would take close to a hour to do the same thing if everything was set up correct.

I mean if a person is topping up every few km with the jerry cans cool. I guess Canada really doesn't put many Kms on the tanks overall. But refueling 600plus liters using jerry cans is pretty time consuming.

Reality is we are not set up for it, heck were not set up properly for Jerry can refueling. But we make do with what we have.

You don't have an hour to wait it line in a situation that may be dire in nature.

Flying Js is not available in Wainwright training area.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

LOL An hour at the POL Because Canada only has one truck with one kinda working pump for the entire Brigade and has to go back and refuel before filling the next four tanks.

It took me about 5 mins to refuel my Tractor trailer with 6-700 liters of fuel switching to the other side punching in the pin code, wash the windows, log in my log book at. Then another 10 mins to fill the 1200 liters of fuel into the saddle tanks using a fuel pump switching sides. Jerry can would take close to a hour to do the same thing if everything was set up correct.

I mean if a person is topping up every few km with the jerry cans cool. I guess Canada really doesn't put many Kms on the tanks overall. But refueling 600plus liters using jerry cans is pretty time consuming.

Reality is we are not set up for it, heck were not set up properly for Jerry can refueling. But we make do with what we have.

See my previous. I rest my case.
Do you know how to supply tanks that are engaging the enemy?
Do you know what is involved in caching supplies for a dispersed squadron?
Do you know how a running replen works?
Do you know how and when to split the echelon?
Do you know how to replen the echelon when required?

I didn't think so. Canada, as well as allies have been honing this skill since tanks appeared. After over 100 years I think we've got a pretty good and better idea how to do these things than a civvie truck driver.
We don't have key card pumps we can just pull into whenever we feel like it. And truck drivers, like yourself, are not trying to beat an armed enemy who wants to kill you, while making sure everyone has what they need.
Reality is, you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[suffolkowner]

You don't have an hour to wait it line in a situation that may be dire in nature.

Flying Js is not available in Wainwright training area.

I think Childs is struggling to understand why
1. you would be waiting in line
2. why it would take an hour

See my previous. I rest my case.
Do you know how to supply tanks that are engaging the enemy?
Do you know what is involved in caching supplies for a dispersed squadron?
Do you know how a running replen works?
Do you know how and when to split the echelon?
Do you know how to replen the echelon when required?

I didn't think so. Canada, as well as allies have been honing this skill since tanks appeared. After over 100 years I think we've got a pretty good and better idea how to do these things than a civvie truck driver.
We don't have key card pumps we can just pull into whenever we feel like it.
Reality is, you don't know what you're talking about.

the thing is nothing in this response explains the why or the how.
how does the fuel supply cache get where it is in the first place?
the fuel came from somewhere, if not a fuel tanker than where?

Not an attack just curiosity

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I think Childs is struggling to understand why
1. you would be waiting in line
2. why it would take an hour


the thing is nothing in this response explains the why or the how.
how does the fuel supply cache get where it is in the first place?
the fuel came from somewhere, if not a fuel tanker than where?

Not an attack just curiosity

My echelon delivers the cache. Then returns to pick up the empties, if the time and situation allows. If not, we lose some empty cans. No biggie. We get resupplied by the Regiment, who resupplies from brigade. I don't take my echelon back and refuel all my cans, rebomb with ammo and rations. I go back and change my empty trucks for full ones. I'm only there long enough for my drivers to change trucks. In and out and I'm back in play with full loads. As for trying to explain all the how's and whys of what I do with my echelon, I have neither the time, nor inclination to explain to people who don't wish to learn. It would take too much time and typing.

 

[MJP]

There is a time and place for every type of refuelling activity and they have their strengths and weaknesses.

Jerry cans in a cache or even dropped off at individual tanks at a hide/leaguer (or really anywhere behind the tanks) allow for both the tankers and the support team to move independent of each other and do other activities. Looking at it compared to hose refueling one can be mistaken in thinking that the extra time taken is wasted. However, in reality while one or two of the crew are feeding fuel, the others are doing maint, rebombing, getting orders, cleaning weapons or the myriad of other tasks that need to get done. Plus, if a hide/cache is compromised we lose a bunch of jerry cans not valuable tanker(s)

A rolling replen where the tank sqn or even mech folks drives through a line where they get refuelled and re-bombed takes more planning and is a deliberate activity that is/can be limited by the number of tankers in play. Generally there are 2 hoses per tanker so two tanks at time getting fuel per tanker times the number in a sqn. It has the downside of being a very juicy target as @SeaKingTacco pointed out and needs to be properly planned out

A refuelling truck (along with all the other support vehs) can also visit a veh hide or leaguer and roll from vehicle to veh.

All are very viable options that are driven by the tactical situation on the ground as well as the overall unit/Bde sustainment plan in dictating which options are undertaken

 

[Fishbone Jones]

We don't have fuel browsers in our running replen at Sqn level. The tanks come through, everything goes on the back deck. The tanks move past the replen, empty their cans and stow their ammo. Toss all the cans and garbage of at a single point and we're gone. I'll come along when everyone is done and pick it all up. Unless we have to stop at C/S 8, we are clear of the replen in almost no time and much faster than if we had bowsers. It's not about convenience. It's to ensure we get a troop in and out before the next one shows up. I have done a rolling leaguer, but have never heard of a rolling replen.

 

[KevinB]

However, in reality while one or two of the crew are getting soaked in fuel, the others are laughing at their expense.

FIFY

 

[quadrapiper]

A refuelling truck (along with all the other support vehs) can also visit a veh hide or leaguer and roll from vehicle to veh.

Idiot question: truck or tracked support (fuel, ammunition, etc.), ideally?

 

[MilEME09]

We don't have fuel browsers in our running replen at Sqn level. The tanks come through, everything goes on the back deck. The tanks move past the replen, empty their cans and stow their ammo. Toss all the cans and garbage of at a single point and we're gone. I'll come along when everyone is done and pick it all up. Unless we have to stop at C/S 8, we are clear of the replen in almost no time and much faster than if we had bowsers. It's not about convenience. It's to ensure we get a troop in and out before the next one shows up. I have done a rolling leaguer, but have never heard of a rolling replen.

Problem is our tail doesn't have everything it needs, if we aren't going to invest in more fuel vehicles we should buy up the new generation palatized fuel bowsers. Drop and go to create a CP

 

[FJAG]

Idiot question: truck or tracked support (fuel, ammunition, etc.), ideally?

It varies depending on whether the vehicle accompanies tracked fighting vehicle or runs back and forth between replenishment points. For example in a tracked self propelled artillery battery, the ammunition vehicle limber vehicles and the recovery vehicle are tracked (as are command posts, recce vehicles, troop sergeant majors, forward observers and the FSCC) while additional ammunition vehicles which move between the battery and ammunition points, and pretty much all other support vehicles are wheeled.

I can't speak for todays armoured squadron but in my ancient past, the A1 echelon which accompanied the tank squadron had tracked vehicles for: the squadron sergeant major who replenished food, water and other miscellaneous stuff, the POL vehicle (carrying jerry cans), the Ammo vehicle, the ambulance, the ARV and the MRT. @Fishbone Jones would know much better than I.

Essentially the A1 echelon supplies the tanks, the A2 Echelon, where the SQMS is, supplies the A1 Ech, the Regt A2 Ech supplies the Squadron A2 Ech and the Svc bn supplies the Regt A2 Ech. All of this gets done at night so it becomes a bit obvious why fuel tankers from the Svc Bn refueling the tanks is not a regular thing although in some circumstances, where the resupply is more administrative than tactical, it could happen.

Unfortunately, our purchase of tracked logistics vehicles is long gone. Most everything these days is wheeled primarily for budget reasons. The ACSV purchase has finally moved forward to putting a number of modern close support vehicles under armour with the basic LAV chassis.

 

[childs56]

We don't have fuel browsers in our running replen at Sqn level. The tanks come through, everything goes on the back deck. The tanks move past the replen, empty their cans and stow their ammo. Toss all the cans and garbage of at a single point and we're gone. I'll come along when everyone is done and pick it all up. Unless we have to stop at C/S 8, we are clear of the replen in almost no time and much faster than if we had bowsers. It's not about convenience. It's to ensure we get a troop in and out before the next one shows up. I have done a rolling leaguer, but have never heard of a rolling replen.

Well, instead, you can wait your turn for the POL in your tank for an hour , as a nice juicy target instead…

Better?

You don't have an hour to wait it line in a situation that may be dire in nature.

Flying Js is not available in Wainwright training area.

Not available in the bush where I worked either, nor the ranges I worked or over seas where I worked. But I sure as hell hated fueling with jerry cans anything more then one or two.

You could not have picked a better user name…

Thanks for making fun of my name. Cheers.

See my previous. I rest my case.
Do you know how to supply tanks that are engaging the enemy?

Yes out of sight of the enemy hopefully.

Do you know what is involved in caching supplies for a dispersed squadron?

Again hopefully out of sight and range of the enemy.

Do you know how a running replen works?

Yes

Do you know how and when to split the echelon?

Yes

Do you know how to replen the echelon when required?

Yes

I didn't think so. Canada, as well as allies have been honing this skill since tanks appeared. After over 100 years I think we've got a pretty good and better idea how to do these things than a civvie truck driver.

LOL, Not just a civie truck driver, But ok.

We don't have key card pumps we can just pull into whenever we feel like it. And truck drivers, like yourself, are not trying to beat an armed enemy who wants to kill you, while making sure everyone has what they need.

lol Where I worked outside the military we had fuel trucks that worked, and a good steady supply of them that worked. Unlike the Canadian Forces who have a lack of equipment, so they use jerry cans Filling upwards of 1000liters of fuel. Except our guys more then likely only burn a fraction of that because well they don't drive very far often.

Reality is, you don't know what you're talking about.

Yup sure.

We don't have fuel browsers in our running replen at Sqn level. The tanks come through, everything goes on the back deck. The tanks move past the replen, empty their cans and stow their ammo. Toss all the cans and garbage of at a single point and we're gone. I'll come along when everyone is done and pick it all up. Unless we have to stop at C/S 8, we are clear of the replen in almost no time and much faster than if we had bowsers. It's not about convenience. It's to ensure we get a troop in and out before the next one shows up. I have done a rolling leaguer, but have never heard of a rolling replen.

Your telling me 24 plus jerry cans go on the back deck interesting.

 

[childs56]

Nice jerry can.......

lol