Canada-US Trade Relations

[Loachman]

My wife and I grow enough vegetables to keep us going till Mar/Apr on a postage stamp size lot.

Your postage stamp is so much bigger than mine, currently. My area is also far too well shaded, but this is all temporary.

I did build another small planter this past weekend (three currently in operation, with a fourth almost ready) and will install some small grow lights inside in the next few months. Those will be used to grow (hopefully) lettuce and kale for salads through the winter and to start seedlings much earlier than previously. I also need to build some protective chicken-wire cages to keep animals out, and cold frame covers for two of the planters.

I am still very much in the research/experimental/learning phase, but slowly improving.

We also started home canning a couple of years ago.

I also want it put off until after the mid terms, because if the Democrats take congress ...

Don't hold your breathe

Sound advice, you give yourself there.

It may happen, by a small margin, in the House of Representatives, but that is far from assured at this point, and the Republicans should gain a few seats in the Senate.

The Democrats have no leader, no platform (beyond "We oppose everything that Trump has done, we will raise taxes, throw open the southern border even more, and fine you again if you refuse to buy Obamacare etcetera"), still, most likely, very little money, and are leaning further and further left.

you think Sheer is giving up on supply management?

That depends on how negotiations go. The US subsidizes farming, and we can apply pressure in that area, or gradually adopt a similar, if not identical, subsidy system to match. I've read both sides of the Supply Management issue, and am yet to be convinced that it is a bad thing - but have not reached a decision one way or another yet. It seems to promote stability, which is a good thing, and enable small independent farms to survive. I am not enthused by large factory farms.

I don't see that as a sacred cow.

I know PEI is small and and not as newsworthy as other provinces,  but I'm sure I would have remembered the PEI separatists winning their referendum and becoming their own country

I was, for a brief period in 1978, The Raven, the shadowy mastermind behind RALF (Revolutionary Army for Liberation and Freedom), a PEI separatist movement based in Summerside.

Sadly, "RALF for a Free PEI" did not fire the general public's imagination, the best efforts of my fellow Ralfers and I failed, our dreams of a glorious independent future were dashed, and I was forced to withdraw from the Island in December of that year.

Still, having discovered a local farmer's market I get produce at a better price and better quality.

I've been doing that for a few years, now. I don't find the prices to be better, but the quality definitely is, and I prefer to support local and/or small businesses as much as I can. I do not have the option to avoid supermarkets completely, though, yet.

Be aware that some of these "farmers" are not. It is relatively easy to tell if one is aware that the problem exists, and, once one establishes a decent relationship with an actual farmer/vendor they will usually confirm who is and isn't. I have seen one of the Kingston not-a-farmer's marked vehicle driving around the back of a local Food Basics.

See https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/farmers-markets-lies-marketplace-1.4306231

 

[Infanteer]

I'll never begrudge a Canadian for shopping for a better deal, even if its out of the country.  This whole "where your taxes go" argument is a bit specious.  Am I somehow screwing my province and not paying my fair share if I buy something out-of-province because the deal is better, thereby sending PST/HST dollars elsewhere?

Honest Canadians pay enough taxes as it is.

 

[Remius]

Be aware that some of these "farmers" are not. It is relatively easy to tell if one is aware that the problem exists, and, once one establishes a decent relationship with an actual farmer/vendor they will usually confirm who is and isn't. I have seen one of the Kingston not-a-farmer's marked vehicle driving around the back of a local Food Basics.

See https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/farmers-markets-lies-marketplace-1.4306231

Sound advice but I’m not too worried.  The Ottawa market was notorious for that but started issuing vendor permits based on whether they are local or just resellers.  Resellers can still sell but they payback more and must indicate they are resellers. I avoid that place though because the prices are definitely too high. 

The one I frequent is closer to manotick.  I’ve been buying from Rochon Farms.  A local farm in Edwards ON.  Nice people.  As for price I get three times more mixed lettuce than I can get at the grocery store.  Three peppers for roughly the same price but they are better quality.  Etc etc.  It’s the ones off the beaten path you need to find. 

Looking to grow some stuff next year as well as I will have a bigger property by then to do that.

 

[suffolkowner]

There are a lot of stands in some farmers markets that at the very least supplement from the Toronto food terminal. If you ask around you can usually find out though

 

[Remius]

I'll never begrudge a Canadian for shopping for a better deal, even if its out of the country.  This whole "where your taxes go" argument is a bit specious.  Am I somehow screwing my province and not paying my fair share if I buy something out-of-province because the deal is better, thereby sending PST/HST dollars elsewhere?

Honest Canadians pay enough taxes as it is.

I agree.  I’m doing my little part but it’s because I can afford to and I’m willing to take the time to do it.  But some people have other priorities and could care less as long a it costs less because they can’t afford it or have other spending priorities.  When a bag of chips costs less than a bag of apples it’s hard to tell people to eat healthier when their budget will only go so far. 

 

[FJAG]

I agree.  I’m doing my little part but it’s because I can afford to and I’m willing to take the time to do it.  But some people have other priorities and could care less as long a it costs less because they can’t afford it or have other spending priorities.  When a bag of chips costs less than a bag of apples it’s hard to tell people to eat healthier when their budget will only go so far.

Like when the bin of cherries from Washington state are half the price of ones in the bin right next to it from 50 miles down the road in SW Ontario.  ullhair:

:cheers:

 

[Loachman]

The one I frequent is closer to manotick.  I’ve been buying from Rochon Farms.  A local farm in Edwards ON.  Nice people.  As for price I get three times more mixed lettuce than I can get at the grocery store.  Three peppers for roughly the same price but they are better quality.  Etc etc.  It’s the ones off the beaten path you need to find.

I am buying organic (sort of) vegetables, which does tend to increase the cost to producers, so there is a price differential there. Some local farmers do not grow organically - that means that they either use pesticides, or grow naturally but do not wish to expend the money or effort to get so certified, and it's mainly from the latter group that I buy, not necessarily organic. I talk to them about their farming practices, mainly as part of my how-to-do-it-myself learning efforts. They're pretty helpful. Taste is another factor.

I get excellent meat from a farmer who raises her animals naturally - no antibiotics or growth hormones and all grass-fed - and exceeds organic standards but will not get certified, and gives a generous discount when buying in bulk. She does not sell poultry, though, but I just found a fellow who does and I like his practices and the taste of his birds.

 

[larry Strong]

I am buying organic (sort of) vegetables, which does tend to increase the cost to producers, so there is a price differential there. Some local farmers do not grow organically - that means that they either use pesticides, or grow naturally but do not wish to expend the money or effort to get so certified, and it's mainly from the latter group that I buy, not necessarily organic. I talk to them about their farming practices, mainly as part of my how-to-do-it-myself learning efforts. They're pretty helpful. Taste is another factor.

I get excellent meat from a farmer who raises her animals naturally - no antibiotics or growth hormones and all grass-fed - and exceeds organic standards but will not get certified, and gives a generous discount when buying in bulk. She does not sell poultry, though, but I just found a fellow who does and I like his practices and the taste of his birds.

There are ways...most town, cities and even bases have some sort of community gardens for growing vegetables...I realize that it's not feasible for everyone......

Cheers
Larry

 

[Loachman]

There is one not far from me, but am not sure if there are any vacancies. It would not work in my situation, anyway, especially in the research-and-trial phase. I have found some interesting ideas that I am slowly incorporating, but a move is in order in a year or two and that is my best bet.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The whole point of free trade is to be able to buy whatever you want/need at the least possible cost, taxes and all other possible add-ons included.

Tax avoidance (not evasion) sends a useful market signal to government that they are doing something wrong.

 

[jmt18325]

Again, very commendable. I don't have the luck of having a senior officer pension or the access to corporate world, or a government post in retirement. I have to do what I can. Not complaining, but if I have to modify to make it work, oh well.

The whole tax thing is a bit of a shell though, imo, all the taxes to Ottawa are being given out around the world

How much more than when anyone else was in power?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The whole point of free trade is to be able to buy whatever you want/need at the least possible cost, taxes and all other possible add-ons included.

Tax avoidance (not evasion) sends a useful market signal to government that they are doing something wrong.

I don't mind paying a reasonable amount of taxes, paying taxes on tax really burns my butt.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Like when the bin of cherries from Washington state are half the price of ones in the bin right next to it from 50 miles down the road in SW Ontario.  ullhair:

:cheers:

Do your research first. Where I'm at they have a Visit the County, Buy Fresh.

I inspected a number of greenhouses. I know their products and symbols. I can buy their products cheaper at Food Basics than at the stand in front of the greenhouse.

 

[FJAG]

Do your research first. Where I'm at they have a Visit the County, Buy Fresh.

I inspected a number of greenhouses. I know their products and symbols. I can buy their products cheaper at Food Basics than at the stand in front of the greenhouse.

That used to be easier for me when I lived on the lake in Blenheim and there were cherry, peach, apple etc orchards all around us. Living in Strathroy now the best I can do here is the weekly farmers' market in town or the Food Basics or Superstore. It was the Food Basics that had the Washington v Blenheim cherries dilemma for me.

There was just an article on this very subject yesterday. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/ontario-cherries-flavour-blenheim-1.4748911

:cheers:

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I love cherries. Eat them all the time. Blenheim or Washington, they taste the same.

We used to say the same about hothouse tomatoes and field ones. 30 years ago that was true. Agriculture has come a long way in that respect. People demand consistency. You don't buy something that doesn't taste good because it's cheaper.

 

[Altair]

For all those who think Andrew Scheer is the solution to Canada's trade issues...

https://nationalpost.com/news/u-s-still-pushing-for-end-to-dairy-supply-management-as-part-of-nafta-talks-diplomat

Despite recent suggestions to the contrary, U.S officials negotiating a new NAFTA trade deal have demanded that Canada end its supply-management system for dairy and egg products, Ottawa’s deputy ambassador to the United States said Tuesday.

And that request is a non-starter for Canada, Kirsten Hillman stressed to a conference here.

The dairy sector has been a surprisingly hot-button issue in wrangling over a new North American Free Trade Agreement, with President Donald Trump repeatedly complaining about protection of the Canadian industry.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/article-globe-editorial-andrew-scheers-cheesy-trade-war-politics/

Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer did his part on Tuesday when he released a statement criticizing not U.S. President Donald Trump, who capriciously imposed levies on Canadian steel and aluminum last week, but Prime Minister Justin Trudeau for the crime of announcing “flexibility” in his position on access to the Canadian dairy market.

Mr. Scheer called any weakening of the tariffs that shield Canadian milk, eggs and poultry from foreign competition “totally unacceptable” and accused the PM of being duplicitous for saying otherwise to an American audience.

The most galling thing about this attack on the PM was not that the Conservative stance on supply management is dead wrong. All three major parties have, in the past, steadfastly supported the antiquated and expensive fixed prices, production quotas and trade barriers that protect dairy and poultry farming in Canada, so Mr. Scheer is not alone in this.

As well, the hypocrisy of the Tories, Canada’s party of economic liberalism, backing a protectionist price-fixing scheme that costs consumers dearly is obvious enough.

No, it’s the way the party, and Mr. Scheer in particular, came to their wrong-headed position that is most troubling.

The party is led by a man who secured his job in large part thanks to the votes of insta-Conservative dairy farmers who signed up in key Quebec ridings to defeat Mr. Scheer’s libertarian rival, Maxime Bernier, in the 2017 leadership race.

Totally unacceptable and attacked Trudeau on being flexible about the issue.

So...no, I don't think so.

 

[Altair]

http://nationalpost.com/news/world/u-s-farmers-caught-in-crossfire-vent-about-impact-of-trump-tariffs-at-congressional-hearings

In another sign of growing congressional rebellion against President Donald Trump’s trade wars, a Republican-led committee gave U.S. farmers a platform Wednesday to detail how they’ve been hurt by tariffs imposed on countries like Canada — and the resulting reprisal.

Fruit growers, cattle ranchers and grain farmers told members of the House of Representatives trade sub-committee that tariffs on imported steel and aluminum had boosted their costs just as agricultural commodity prices are dropping, while retaliation was shrinking overseas markets.

And they bemoaned the fact that some of Trump’s first targets included Mexico and Canada, the latter being U.S. agriculture’s largest export market.

“Placing tariffs on our closest trading partners — in particular Canada and Mexico — is concerning,” said Russell Boening, a dairy farmer and president of the Texas Farm Bureau. “We must continue working for a strong, modernized North American Free Trade Agreement. Ideally … as soon as possible.”

More of this please. Hurt american pocketbooks and watch politicians start to buckle.

 

[pbi]

http://nationalpost.com/news/world/u-s-farmers-caught-in-crossfire-vent-about-impact-of-trump-tariffs-at-congressional-hearings


More of this please. Hurt american pocketbooks and watch politicians start to buckle.

No! Never!! Those farmers hate America!!! And they probably aren't even real farmers-they're probably crypto-liberals paid by the Democrats!! Fake news! Fake news! The media is the Enemy of the People!

Ummmm....was Trump thought up by George Orwell? ???

 

[PuckChaser]

Canada's doing a great job negotiating. So great, that the US is close to a bilateral deal with Mexico before they complete any sort of deal with Canada. Probably all the GBA+ hangups.

https://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/trump-says-hes-getting-closer-to-reaching-a-bilateral-trade-deal-with-mexico

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Canada's doing a great job negotiating. So great, that the US is close to a bilateral deal with Mexico before they complete any sort of deal with Canada. Probably all the GBA+ hangups.

https://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/trump-says-hes-getting-closer-to-reaching-a-bilateral-trade-deal-with-mexico

Trudeau guys get aced by Mexico. That could explain a lot.