Cadet Dress in Public

[armygurl_557]

We have problems with uniforms at my corps, because many parents have had one child in cadest, who was an amazing cadet, and put their other kids in it years later, against their own wishes. Many parents also use cadets as a diciplinary program, so a cadet will show up once every 2 or 3 weeks, saying "I failed math so my mom sent me here." If a cadet doesnt want to be in cadets, but has no chioce, they tend not to follow the rules so they never show up in their uniform.

Or they just want to go and see their friends and hate wearing the uniform, so they dont.  What we do to get them to wear the uniform is give them PT Gear for the night, extra duties and they have defaulters parade that night, But Our Defaulters Parade still has about 20 cadets a night.

 

[Sgt_McWatt]

Now this topic has been beaten to death. But all I see are opinions. Does any one at all have any evidance pointing either way about cadets beind allowed to wear CADPAT or not?

 

[Springroll]

Back in the day('91-'94) we were permitted to wear the olive combats on weekend exercises only. I think if it is available in your local surplus shop, and the kids buys it, then there is no problems. I didn't have any combats for the first 6 months that I was in and we were allowed to wear civvie clothes provided they were dark and not jeans!

2483 PPCLI strictly enforced the dress reg's for the cadets. When I first joined I thought they were just being anal, but after we kicked butt at the drill competition that year, I understood why they were the way they were. If you take pride in your appearance and in your uniform, it shows. You begin to have alot of self confidence and in turn you have awesome cadets.

When I transferred to 2136 C Scot R, they were the same way. I think things were a little easier, but they still enforced the dress code. If you did not have a uniform you were to wear dress pants and a dress shirt, and if you owned one, a tie. Once I had my own platoon I turned into one of those strict NCO's that didn't let anything get by her(had too since I was the only female).

If cadet corps are slacking off the ways you guys are describing now, then I am going to shop around for one that isn't before signing my son up for anything.

 

[Peace]

Regarding cadet uniforms, this keeps coming up here, so I'll repost this from a previous thread:

I refer you to Army Cadet bulletin 04-008 from the Regional Cadet Support Unit (Pacific)
which says (link to pdf document at bottom) ;

" ........    Cadets may continue to purchase new or used military-style field dress from surplus stores or use suitable civilian clothing.   Some Corps Sponsor Committees have elected to help cadets acquire military pattern field dress. While the use of the old style olive drab "combat" clothing is acceptable, in such cases, cadets must also wear an armlet (brassard) that has the RCAC badge attached.   Cadet Rank and Affiliated Unit shoulder flashes also may be attached to this armlet.

The Army office of the RCSU (Pacific) continues to strongly discourage the use of Canadian Forces CADPAT (including imitation) by Army Cadets.   This pattern of clothing makes it difficult to distinguish cadets from members of the regular and reserve force and may cause confusion when CF members are present. CADPAT is a restricted clothing pattern intended solely for CF personnel and it is issued only to members of the CF (including CIC). Allowing cadets (or Civilian Instructors) to wear "acquired" CADPAT is a violation of CF policy. Allowing cadets to wear military style clothing that closely resembles CADPAT also would be a violation of the spirit of that policy.    ......... "


http://www.regions.cadets.ca/pac/armcad/pdf/ACB%2004-008%20TEMPORARY%20CLOSUR.pdf

Dude, you gotta read the thread before you necro-post like that.  The anwsers you seek shall be found by looking.

 

[Slim]

the specific example I observed was a Hamilton Infantry unit Cadet Corps member wearing fake Cadpat with his unit's beret... so he looked almost identical to an accuall soldier

Cadets are not soldiers. there fore they should not dress like soldiers.

No combat uniforms are required. Cadets don't need them and shouldn't have them.

 

[Burrows]

Alright,  this HAS gone on long enough.

Armyboi,

If you read her post entirely, she states they are having a hard time getting cadets to ACCEPT the help.


For the records the CATO's state that cadets are permitted to wear CF Combat Dress.  There is no colour or pattern specified.

I'm not going to say yay for CADPAT or nay for CADPAT, what your unit chooses to enforce IAW the CATO is up to them.  I personally have no problem with my cadets wearing CADPAT as our surplus store seems to have exhausted everything but combat lingerie.  As long as they don't wear the flag, and their rank is the issued cadet slip-on, I see no reason to be anal retentive.

 

[armyvern]

Alright,   this HAS gone on long enough.

For the records the CATO's state that cadets are permitted to wear CF Combat Dress. There is no colour or pattern specified.

I'm not going to say yay for CADPAT or nay for CADPAT, what your unit chooses to enforce IAW the CATO is up to them.   I personally have no problem with my cadets wearing CADPAT as our surplus store seems to have exhausted everything but combat lingerie.   As long as they don't wear the flag, and their rank is the issued cadet slip-on, I see no reason to be anal retentive.

Let me just say this as a Regular Force Supply Tech:

Cadets are not entitled to wear cadpat. Which is known as CF "operational dress" not of CF combat dress.
CIC Officer's of the Army kind, are entitled to 2 sets and are able to wear them.

Air and Sea CIC officers are entitled to ZERO sets. I can issue to them on a DND638 Temporary Loan Card while they work for the summer at an Area Cadet Trg Facility, but I get them back as soon as summer camp is done.

If you are purchasing "cadpat" downtown...it is not the "real" stuff, as our cadpat is a highly controlled item that we shred before disposing of just so that it doesn't make it out onto the street for everybody in NATO to wear.

Further to that, as a controlled item, if you do manage to get your hands onto a "real set" and wore them in my presence, I would immediately begin steps (via MPs) to have them removed from your ownership and an invest as to how you managed to get them in the first place, being that they are a controlled item to which you are not entitled to possess.

So realisticlly, the only way that a cadet should have "cadpat" on is if he/she borrowed his/her mom or dad who happens to be entitled to it.

By the way, entitlement should be releasded shortly for Army cadets and our old CF combat dress.

So, I'm not trying to give cadets a hard time here, just reflect upon what your regulation's actually read (CATOs). Our cadpat is operational dress not combat dress and therefore the reson why you shouldn't be wearing them. The CF combat dress is olive green combats, CF operational dress is cadpat.
I once was a cadet:
2647 RCAC Oromocto (2 Royal Canadian Regiment) (82-87)
Attended:
Camp Argonaut: CL, CLI
CSTS Borden: Athletic Leadership
CFB Valcartier/Pangnirtung: Arctic Indoctrination
Camp Argonaut: Wilderness Staff Sgt
Camp Argonaut: WO PERI Staff
Gold Star and Wreath, Marksman, Standard First Aid

What courses do the Army cadets still have? I know they can still do their Basic Para as my husband has instructed many of you at CPC Trenton.

 

[Slim]

Yeah, if everyone else is playing poser by wearing high-speed soldier gear at paintball games/airsoft, why not cadets?

If cadets are striving to be mature and professional in everything thay do then I would say that tht's a good enough reason right there...the other is that, if you are wearing CADPAT and its found to be the real stuff, you're in for a rough time from the MP's, your CO and probably your parents, once they find out how their son/daughter is under investigation by NIS!

 

[Slim]

"Son, you better have a darn good explanation for the black helicopters circling our house"  

I don't think we have enough helicopters to paint black...More likely a staff car or a rental from Budget... ;D

 

[ouyin2000]

I don't think we have enough helicopters to paint black...More likely a staff car or a rental from Budget... ;D

We have enough....they're just not air worthy >.<

 

[mavericknm]

Theres always a loop hole in everything. http://www.180mosquito.ca/180.htm. Check it out and you will understand that having non army cadets in CADPAT isn't bad. I would really like to see more CADPAT integrated into the cadet system. Even if it is only for special events, theres a certain pride that cadets get from being able to touch the little squares. I actualy am confused with the current CATOs. The DND puts so much into the cadet system so it makes sense for them to ensure cadets look the best and give a good impression towards the public. Its kinda sad when I have to wear my OD stuff next to a reservist.

 

[Slim]

Theres always a loop hole in everything. http://www.180mosquito.ca/180.htm. Check it out and you will understand that having non army cadets in CADPAT isn't bad. I would really like to see more CADPAT integrated into the cadet system. Even if it is only for special events, .

I really do not understand where you people get off thinking that you (cadets) should be ENTITLED  to wear CADPAT?!

CADETS ARE NOT SOLDIERS!!! THEY DO NOT NEED COMBAT UNIFORMS...PERIOD!

The CF issues every cadet corps with perfectly good dress uniforms to wear on parades. As for training if you have to wear OD then that's one thing (i'm even against that to be honest) But CADPAT...forget it. Cadets don't need it, can't get it, and should not be allowed to wear the fake stuff.

End of story.

 

[Springroll]

I really do not understand where you people get off thinking that you (cadets) should be ENTITLED   to wear CADPAT?!

CADETS ARE NOT SOLDIERS!!! THEY DO NOT NEED COMBAT UNIFORMS...PERIOD!

The CF issues every cadet corps with perfectly good dress uniforms to wear on parades. As for training if you have to wear OD then that's one thing (i'm even against that to be honest) But CADPAT...forget it. Cadets don't need it, can't get it, and should not be allowed to wear the fake stuff.

End of story.

I agree that they shouldn't be allowed to wear CADPAT, but if they get their hands on the fake stuff at an army surplus shop, why should they be punished for that?

If the CF doesn't want them wearing even the fake stuff, than they should issue the field kit that they want them to wear.

 

[Slim]

I agree that they shouldn't be allowed to wear CADPAT, but if they get their hands on the fake stuff at an army surplus shop, why should they be punished for that?

If the CF doesn't want them wearing even the fake stuff, than they should issue the field kit that they want them to wear.

And you're basing this statement on what?

 

[medic65726]

Cadets are not soldiers. there fore they should not dress like soldiers.

No combat uniforms are required. Cadets don't need them and shouldn't have them.

Seeing as I like to stimulate some discussion,I am going to disagree here. Let me preface this, I am not presently involved in the Cadet system or the CF. I was a cadet in the early 90's and hung around as a CI for a bit, but moved on to other things. SO what is the purpose of cadets? I remember reading somewhere about fostering interest in the CF:
"What is the purpose of Cadets?
Cadets form a national organization whose purpose is to develop in youth the attributes of leadership, engaged and active citizenship and physical fitness, all within a safe environment that stimulates an interest in the Canadian Forces." http://www.cadets.ca/parent/faq_e.asp?answer=1

I think we forgot about this part back in the mid 90's. When I joined Cadets, senior members would often go on FTX with our affiliated regiment, FNs were the order of the day on range exercises and everyone wore Combats for field training (with the cadet brassard with red rank insignia of course). Then came the air rifles, 22cal seemed all you could get on the range and cadets seemed like Boy Scouts. Hell when I was concurrently in the Scouts Canada System (Scouts, Venturers etc) we went out in the field more, learned more survival skills, and even went to shooting competieitions, only difference seemed that the drill was not quite up to par, I had a tan shirt and scarf as my uniform, and I recall a lot less yelling.

I have had friends in the British Army Cadet Force http://www.armycadets.com and they described a totally different experience. They have a dedicated Cadet weapon, a version of the current service rifle (What ever happend to the C10, the .22cal version of the C7 we were promised back then), are often integrated on affiliated unit exercises, camps may include being an OPFOR for a reserve unit, rides in military AFV/aircraft etc. I know funding becomes a big part of this, but it is not the only thing. What are we afraid of? That some kid may grow up wanting to be a soldier? Sorry but I thought that was the idea.

I think cadets should be properly supplied and it should be seriously pushing them to be interested in an Army career. We know that few will progress to that, but will it not encourage some that could do well in that environment. I'm not getting into the CADPAT argument, but Cadets need combats, and to be in the field getting dirty, on the range learning marksmanship skills, as well asl learning about being a better, disciplined person. The person who was RSM of my Corps when I joined, and her successor went on to RMC, and one of the Sgt.s at the time IIRC joined a local militia regiment. After that it was years before we had anyone off to take their service oath. I wonder why?
Looks like I went a little long with this rant, more like my 4 cents.

 

[George Wallace]

........ Its kinda sad when I have to wear my OD stuff next to a reservist.

There is a solution for that.  Join the Reserves! 

As Armyvern has already explained earlier.....the OD stuff is COMBATS.  CADPAT is OPERATIONAL.  If you are a POSER, and just interested in the LCF you deserve all the Police attention you get.

Perhaps it is due to all these Cadets thinking that CADPAT is "Kool" and their buying it and wearing it, that has caused problems like this:  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/35253.0.html

Why are we rehashing this old topic all over again.  It was closed down several months ago.  None of the arguments from the kiddies have changed.  Regulations are issued to govern these matters.  Let's drop it.

 

[LF(CMO)]

"For those interested, a new Cadet pattern field uniform has been designed and available here in Canada. To see a sample of it and to get a price list plus order form, go to The Army Cadet League of Canada, British Columbia Branch web page at www.armycadetleague.bc.ca"

The above is very similiar to CF CADPAT.  Unless you see them side by side no one from the Civ side would know the difference.

CF CADPAT is available from CEL surplus in Morinville to anyone, hunters, Cadets, etc.

 

[Neill McKay]

So, I'm not trying to give cadets a hard time here, just reflect upon what your regulation's actually read (CATOs). Our cadpat is operational dress not combat dress and therefore the reson why you shouldn't be wearing them. The CF combat dress is olive green combats, CF operational dress is cadpat.

If that's the case, I'm curious as to why the supply system makes a distinction between combat dress and operational dress.  Are OD combats still in the system, and being issued for certain purposes while CadPat combats are issued for others?

Also, I believe naval combat dress also fits into the operational dress category, and is certainly authorised for cadets when serving aboard HMC or Coast Guard ships.

 

[George Wallace]

Also, I believe naval combat dress also fits into the operational dress category, and is certainly authorised for cadets when serving aboard HMC or Coast Guard ships.

Didn't you just answer your own question?  Authorised when serving aboard Ship would deem it to be an "Operational" role, not playing paintball, or camping in the woods.

 

[Burrows]

24 Hr Stand down.  Take a breather and lets stop the bickering.