My CIC Application Odyssey

[LittleBlackDevil]

I know.....just making a joke on the lovely ongoing debate about CIC cap badges (which is always fun to watch when it flares up).

Ah, good to know

Didn't know that was a sore point. I had to purchase my cap badge when I was an officer with the R Wpg Rif with my personal money, so assumed all officers were expected to do that.

I found once CFRC was done with what they needed to do, it went very quickly from there.

I believe that COVID and working from home and such has slowed things down. So far it's been six weeks since my stuff was sent out from CFRC. Talked to my CO today and he has not yet received the paperwork he needs to sign off on.

 

[Burrows]

It is a long standing tradition that officers purchase their regimental accoutrements. Comes from the days when an officer would purchase their commission (and if they had buckets of loose change, stand up their own regiment!)

There shouldn't be a debate on something as trivial as your cap badge (especially, IMO, when those who complain are often the first in the receiving line for a promotion round). However I do agree that perhaps a job aide for new members would be a helpful tool!

 

[quadrapiper]

Agreed re: the officer expectations side of things.

I think some of the in-Branch grumbling about having to purchase cap badges is the alleged, theoretical, apparently never in stock existence of issue ones: the perception is of having to make up for a supply shortcoming right off the top (sometimes with assurances that "you'll be given one on your first course," only to be directed to the school kit shop). Add to that a lack of subsequent exposure to wider CAF norms both as far as purchasing regimental kit and generally augmenting supplied kit with personal gear and you get a touchstone for griping.

Why we don't issue CIC N/OCdts with the cornflake remains beyond me: I know it's come up on here and elsewhere a few times.

 

[LittleBlackDevil]

I suppose I should put a bow on this thread, as my "odyssey" has finally been concluded and I've been a CIC officer since early August. Did my attestation at my CO's house first weekend of August, along with all the last paperwork.

I was finally officially an OCdt in Guardian as of 12 October, and picked up my combats on 29 October. Got to wear the uniform for the first time October 29th supervising cadets selling poppies for the legion.

Not entirely sure why I'm an OCdt because according to my MPRR I have Military Occupation Qualifications (by virtue of my courses taken as an infantry officer) for BMOQ CIC Part 1, BMOQ CIC-Land, CIC Land Environmental Course, CIC Basic Officer Trg Course. I've been told I should be 2LT with those courses but I'm just pumped to finally be back in uniform.

Once I have access to FORTRESS I can start looking for further courses. Given I'm Sup O I'd really like to get the Supply Officer course ASAP, plus my CO wants me to get my 404s. Previous CO had said she wanted me to get the winter safety course so we have someone at the corps who can do winter FTX and I think I'm the only one who enjoys cold weather (at our last winter FTX pre-COVID I was the only staff member who slept outside with the cadets).

 

[Burrows]

Not entirely sure why I'm an OCdt because according to my MPRR I have Military Occupation Qualifications (by virtue of my courses taken as an infantry officer) for BMOQ CIC Part 1, BMOQ CIC-Land, CIC Land Environmental Course, CIC Basic Officer Trg Course. I've been told I should be 2LT with those courses but I'm just pumped to finally be back in uniform.

Once I have access to FORTRESS I can start looking for further courses. Given I'm Sup O I'd really like to get the Supply Officer course ASAP, plus my CO wants me to get my 404s. Previous CO had said she wanted me to get the winter safety course so we have someone at the corps who can do winter FTX and I think I'm the only one who enjoys cold weather (at our last winter FTX pre-COVID I was the only staff member who slept outside with the cadets).

Congratulations on closing a long chapter of waiting. Now you get to begin a whole new adventure of development.

With regards to your being an OCdt vs. a 2Lt, I would engage your Zone Training Officer through your CO and they will likely need to seek direction from the J1/J35 at RCSU. In most instances, a PLAR (Prior Learning Assessment and Recognition) must be completed on an individual basis and various factors (course content, when the course was completed, etc.) are taken into account. Your MPRR follows you throughout any service - but the PLAR process needs to be initiated and is not automatic. (Great opportunity to practice your staff writing skills via a memo - since you are trying to prove you know how to do that ;-) )

With that said, I have often seen members with previous service still need to complete the Occupational Training Course (BMOQ CIC Part 2) as you will need to get your instructor qualification. The Occupational Training Course also covers youth development, so it would be difficult to PLAR from other CAF occupational courses. I have seen 2Lts with previous service on this course and it makes up the 2nd part of the requirement for promotion to 2Lt for a CIC Officer with no previous service.

WRT DND 404s - You will need to complete the Safe Driving Course (SDC) on the DLN (Defence Learning Network - eLearning) as a first step. This will typically qualify you for Staff Car and Light Duty Blue Fleet (Blue Fleet = Civilian vehicles). The issuing of your 404s can likely be handled with your closest Base Transport cell when you provide your Civilian DL and proof of SDC completion. If you are really cool, we will even give you a Golf Cart endorsement after you pass our elite "Golf Cart Operator" course. Yes - every vehicle in the CAF has an endorsement you need to operate it.

WRT SupO Course - The content itself is available in the DLN Knowledge Base. You can gain an understanding without completing the course while you wait for the actual course to become available as a syndicate. Yeah, it does essentially mean studying the same stuff over again - but it will give you the basic understanding out of the gate as you are already occupying this position.

Good luck!

 

[LittleBlackDevil]

Thanks for the information @Burrows! I already did a PLAR and that is how I received qualifications for the four CIC courses I listed. That makes sense about needing the BMOQ CIC Part 2 to get that stripe removed from my slip-on. There would definitely be things on that course I've not learned previously. Once I get access for Fortress (which I've been harassing my CO about) I'll look into getting one of those.

Will look into DLN. I have not received any credentials for that yet so I'll contact support.

WRT SupO ... honestly after doing the job of SupO for 2 years now I already know a lot of what is probably taught on that course but would good to officially have it and I'm sure I will learn things that I've been doing wrong.

 

[Burrows]

Thanks for the information @Burrows! I already did a PLAR and that is how I received qualifications for the four CIC courses I listed. That makes sense about needing the BMOQ CIC Part 2 to get that stripe removed from my slip-on. There would definitely be things on that course I've not learned previously. Once I get access for Fortress (which I've been harassing my CO about) I'll look into getting one of those.

Will look into DLN. I have not received any credentials for that yet so I'll contact support.

WRT SupO ... honestly after doing the job of SupO for 2 years now I already know a lot of what is probably taught on that course but would good to officially have it and I'm sure I will learn things that I've been doing wrong.

Your DLN Username will be your Service Number and you should be able to get a password reset once you have your C365/CCONet account set up.

Just for context when requesting things:

FORTRESS = Cadet Records (basically cadet GUARDIAN)
C365 = Cadets365 (Office 365 Account) - Has email, MS Teams, Sharepoint, etc.
CCONet = Remote Desktop/ More Sharepoint/etc. (Shares credentials with your C365 account as we are migrating away from the remote desktop instances where possible)

It is always a good idea to have an understanding of the job. person-to-person knowledge transfers alone are a good way to miss steps I have found.

 

[d_edwards]

I started the application process last winter, and saw little action due to the CAF’s exacting reference requirements. As I describe it, basically someone who’s known you well for over five years, but still doesn’t like you well enough to be a friend. Can’t be a friend, relative, family friend or co-worker. Makes it hard if you’re an introvert working for a small company. Anyway, finally got the required references, and things were quick after that. Interview and medical within a week, followed by additional tests because I am old, blind and fat. (Glucose, lipids, ecg). For my age, I seem to be relatively ok. Submitted the additional tests on Friday, will wait to hear what’s next...

I recently retired and was wanting to be a CIC officer. You touched on something with the reference requirements. It was a difficult task as people rotate through positions quickly and could not think of anyone at the required rank level that fit the parameters they listed. Given that and other hurdles I eventually just said to hell with it.
Units are hurting for help and the system as it is

I've searched and found a number of threads talking about various peoples' journeys and how long it takes, the process, etc., but nothing CIC related more recent than 2015. So I thought I'd share my own odyssey as an example, to seek advice where appropriate, and to perhaps give some ideas of how to proceed to others interested in CIC. It seemed appropriate to do this in the CIC sub-forum rather than "Recruiting Process" since it seems things are a little different for CIC and not as generally applicable.

Just a very brief bit of background -- from 1998 to 2002 I served as an Infantry Officer with the Royal Winnipeg Rifles, doing time as the Assistant Adjutant and Finance Officer, then a Platoon Commander. I got out when I was in first year Law School because it was impossible to do both school and army at the same time. Over the years I've often felt the itch to get back in, but never could make it work. Now with my oldest son in cadets I decided to join.

Wanting to help with the corps while waiting to get into CIC, I signed up as a Civilian Volunteer and the CO asked me to act as Supply Officer since they hadn't had one in some time and were in great need.

Getting in as a CV was easy. I just got a vulnerable sector record check from my local police department and handed it into the Cadet League of Canada folks along with my application and photocopies of ID. It took about 3 weeks to get my approval.

Applying for CIC has been interesting. The CO at my corps seemed not to know how to apply, perhaps because her own application was so long ago.

I started looking online at Canada.ca and clicked the "APPLY NOW!" button here: Cadet Instructor - Canada.ca

Which is apparently the wrong way to apply, because after I filled out the application I called the local CFRC to see what the next step was. For about two weeks I was told to call back in a few days because no one really seemed to know what to do. The fourth recruiter I spoke to finally told me I was supposed to do my application through RCSU and put me in touch with the right person who gave me the application package. I filled this out and sent it in and on December 17th, 2019 it was sent back to my CFRC.

I touched base with the local CFRC just before Christmas 2019 and was told they would contact me once they had the package to do the physical. When I hadn't heard anything by January 9th, 2020 I decided to give them a ring to see what's what. The recruiter in charge of my file set me up right away with a Medical for January 16th.

Today at 6:23 pm I received a barrage of four emails all stating the same:

Your appointment(Medical - Part I & II) has been deleted!
Your appointment on 2020-Jan-16 at 10:00:00 has been cancelled (deleted). If you have any questions please contact your recruiting detachment.
Thank you again for your interest in joining the Canadian Armed Forces.

So now I'm waiting until 8 am or so tomorrow so I can call my recruiter back and see what this is all about and hopefully get another Medical in short order. Although considering I had to book a whole day off for this given how far away my "local" CFRC is, it may be a few weeks. I am starting to see that this may be death by a thousand cuts of a few weeks wasted here (the canada.ca site giving wrong application info) and a few weeks wasted there (Medical being randomly unilaterally cancelled by CFRC).

I wonder how many applicants they lose due to the process? They won't get rid of me easily though because I really want to do this, and my experience as a CV has only given me more determination because I enjoy it and I can also see the great need for CIC officer (I'm told that CIC is at about 50% of what it should be across the board and my corps is especially understaffed ... by the fall there may actually be zero uniform CIC officers (because the two we have are just "pinch hitting" as it is), although I assume they'll parachute someone in from a neighbouring unit.

I recently retired from the the CF after a career that spanned 30 years. I thought I would apply as a CIC officer. I was not expecting the administrative headaches which also had to compete with my personal administration related to retirement (relocation etc). I eventually decided to not bother at all. Part of it was frustration at the process. Part of it was personal, having spent my entire life since age 13 (now 55) in uniform ( cadets, reserve, regular force) I needed time away from all of it. Maybe I will circle back to it but as a CI.

 

[Burrows]

The definition of co-worker does not include your supervisors (current or former). It would be more than fair to use those people as individual references. Community leaders are also valid references (your clergy, someone you have volunteered for, etc.). Understandably, some folks could still experience difficulty with this.

There are mechanisms that exist to assist members of PRes and RegF in doing a CT to COATS (and also OT to CIC) should they be interested instead of releasing. I have been advised that when this process is followed prior to a member releasing, that a PLAR is now standard practice.

Based on what you have stated above, it sounds like you were released and seeking re-enrolment, is that correct?