My CIC Application Odyssey

[LittleBlackDevil]

If there is an open position available to you at the unit, have your CO inquire with your RCSU about a Civilian Instructor (Generalist) contract.  This would make you a paid employee of DND (not the CAF) vs. a Volunteer with the Army Cadet League.

I considered this, but was told that it would be very detrimental to my CIC application.

Apparently there might be a workaround for me to attend events since I'm also a parent, so there's more leeway for "parent volunteers" to attend an in-person training to ensure there are enough adults present.

Best advice I can give outside the above is to stay on your file - it will definitely take some time.  Many of the CFRC folks are working remotely and managing what files they can.

I have been in contact with other people who have had their interviews so I know they are happening. Just trying to strike the balance between staying on my file and not being a pain to my file manager/military career counsellor as I'm sure they are doing what they can.

 

[catalyst]

apparently - if there's an ERC already done and 'owned' by CFRC, an ERC can't be done by the RCSU (needed for paid CI status). Or so it was sort of explained to me.

We've been told no new CIC processing (initial application) and very limited processing if already in the system - as CFRC is concentrating on RegF SIP and backlogs.

YMMV.

 

[LittleBlackDevil]

apparently - if there's an ERC already done and 'owned' by CFRC, an ERC can't be done by the RCSU (needed for paid CI status). Or so it was sort of explained to me.

This is basically what my CO said to me as well.

We've been told no new CIC processing (initial application) and very limited processing if already in the system - as CFRC is concentrating on RegF SIP and backlogs.

The yellow is new to me, but makes sense as they try to deal with backlog and prioritize combat arms. It's certainly expected that RegF, reserves, and combat trades would be prioritized over CIC. Fortunately I've been in the system since 2019 so my application will at least be part of "very limited processing".

YMMV.

It's a bit frustrating that different CFRCs are dealing with their backlog differently as I have chatted with a few other CIC applicants who have been able to complete aspects of their application that I had already completed, plus complete sections I've not completed as well. Whereas my military career counsellor says CFRC Hamilton isn't doing any CIC end of.

I don't care about the pay, I'd do it for free ... I just want to be able to have access to all the stuff that would make me 1000x more effective, plus be able to actually do my job myself rather than having to get the CO to file my orders with Logistik and such.

 

[Burrows]

I considered this, but was told that it would be very detrimental to my CIC application.

Apparently there might be a workaround for me to attend events since I'm also a parent, so there's more leeway for "parent volunteers" to attend an in-person training to ensure there are enough adults present.

Having never been a CI myself, I cannot attest either way to that.  However, we do have a process specifically designed to move CIs to CIC when the applications are processed.  Best bet would be to have your CO work with the J1 for your region for certainty.

As a CV you are insured by the league during training activities.  I would be hesitant to action unverified workarounds unless you had something in writing.

 

[LittleBlackDevil]

Well, I received an email from my file manager that definitively puts an end to my application for the foreseeable future if not permanently:

... direction recently came down from headquarters that no recruiting centres are to be doing any CIC interviews.

This is very discouraging. I'm not in it for the money, I'd do it for free ... I frankly would do CIC for free, I just want access to Fortress and Logistik so I can do my job properly. But moreover, what really has me worried is that this shutdown of all CIC interviews indefinitely makes me worry that there are plans afoot to shut down/cancel the program which would be a terrible blow to the children involved and a great detriment to Canada. Cadets is such a great program. Canada's best kept secret.

 

[Gunnar]

So my recruiter informed me that CFRC is done with me, and my app has been sent to RCSU.  From there, it will go to the CO for sign-off.  Looks like I made it thru.

 

[Burrows]

So my recruiter informed me that CFRC is done with me, and my app has been sent to RCSU.  From there, it will go to the CO for sign-off.  Looks like I made it thru.

Congratulations!  Stay in contact with the RCSU Recruiting NCO but you are in the home stretch!  Let me know if you have any questions about what comes next!

 

[LittleBlackDevil]

So I take it Toronto is not considered "south western Ontario"?

Because my recruiter keeps telling me that orders came down that no recruiting centre in "south western Ontario" is to process CIC/COATS applications and that is why my application has been on hold and will remain so indefinitely.

But congratulations to your success, I'm glad SOMEONE is able to join.

 

[Gunnar]

Congratulations!  Stay in contact with the RCSU Recruiting NCO but you are in the home stretch!  Let me know if you have any questions about what comes next!

My CO has already been in contact with him.  Apparently the letter hasn't gotten to him yet.  :rofl:  Nice to be loved I guess...

 

[Burrows]

Because my recruiter keeps telling me that orders came down that no recruiting centre in "south western Ontario" is to process CIC/COATS applications and that is why my application has been on hold and will remain so indefinitely.

Have you engaged your Chain of Command, including outside of your unit? Your Unit CO should engage your AEA and Area OIC for these types of matters as they can bring it forward to the RCSU COS and other SMEs who may be able to get concrete answers.  Seems to me that this may be a bit of a local direction or misunderstanding and may not be in alignment with what the rest of CFRG is doing.

 

[LittleBlackDevil]

Have you engaged your Chain of Command, including outside of your unit? Your Unit CO should engage your AEA and Area OIC for these types of matters as they can bring it forward to the RCSU COS and other SMEs who may be able to get concrete answers.  Seems to me that this may be a bit of a local direction or misunderstanding and may not be in alignment with what the rest of CFRG is doing.

Oh yes, I have engaged my own CoC including my CO who I know has been regularly following-up with her CoC. The response she got was that "Formation is working on it".

I've also reached out to the RCSU Recruiting NCO, and was also contacted through Facebook by the J1 RSCU who offered to look into it for me. I haven't heard back from them since I initially reached out but your message reminds me that I should follow-up to see if they've heard anything or need anything further from me.

My understanding is that this (no CIC applications being processed) is a local direction specific to Southern Ontario -- from what my file manager has told me.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Oh yes, I have engaged my own CoC including my CO who I know has been regularly following-up with her CoC. The response she got was that "Formation is working on it".

I've also reached out to the RCSU Recruiting NCO, and was also contacted through Facebook by the J1 RSCU who offered to look into it for me. I haven't heard back from them since I initially reached out but your message reminds me that I should follow-up to see if they've heard anything or need anything further from me.

My understanding is that this (no CIC applications being processed) is a local direction specific to Southern Ontario -- from what my file manager has told me.

Have you considered making an Access To Information request for the information/documents related to this policy?  If it is a "local" direction, such a request may be an impetus for a higher HQ to ask "WTF".  Granted such an action does not normally get immediate results, but since you've been on hold for an extended period the investment of a little time and $5.00 may be worthwhile.

 

[Winds]

LittleBlackDevil, you were informed by the recruiting centre that no CIC applications were being processed in Southwestern Ontario. That is CFRG direction specific to the region, not created locally, due to current pandemic restrictions and the requirement that CIC interviews must be conducted in person.

 

[catalyst]

We have been given the same direction in BC.  Those in the process will move - v. slowly but priority is RegF production. No new applications will move forweard.

 

[da1root]

Without getting into specifics any in person interviewing is at a stand still, it is not created by the local CFRC's - it is CFRG policy in conjunction with the Regional/Provincial policies of where that CFRC is located.  Keep in mind that the CAF is a government agency that has to follow the policies being set out by the Region/Province that they are located.

As an added there isn't "less important" people in the recruitment process; however when CFRC staff are working from home and 50% staffing issues and a priority occupation such as Medical Officer requires an interview vice a Reserve HRA and there's only limited interview capacity, please use some common sense on who would get the interview.

These are unprecedented times; recruiting staff aren't putting delays on your file for the sake of it - there's actual reason behind it.  Please be patient.

So I take it Toronto is not considered "south western Ontario"?

Ontario is broke up into two regions:
North & Eastern Ontario which comprises of Ottawa (acting as the Regional HQ), Kingston & Sudbury
Southern Ontario which comprises of Toronto (acting as the Regional HQ), Oshawa, Barrie, London & Hamilton

 

[Winds]

Buck_HRA, Ontario is split between two different CFRCs, as you listed... not including Thunder Bay and the majority of Northern Ontario, which fall under CFRC Prairies & The North.

However, Ontario is generally broken down into 4 regions: Southwestern , Central, Eastern, and Northern. Ontario Health Units are further broken down as: South West, Central West, Toronto, Central East, North East, and North West.

 

[da1root]

Buck_HRA, Ontario is split between two different CFRCs, as you listed... not including Thunder Bay and the majority of Northern Ontario, which fall under CFRC Prairies & The North.

However, Ontario is generally broken down into 4 regions: Southwestern , Central, Eastern, and Northern. Ontario Health Units are further broken down as: South West, Central West, Toronto, Central East, North East, and North West.

I'm not going to get into semantics here but Canada is broke apart into 6 Regions for the CFRCs.  When quoting CFRC policy you use those 6 districts and then further break down into the smaller AOR's.  When talking policies you use the Policy of Southern Ontario, not "South Western Ontario".  I'm going to assume that you work at a CFRC, so jump into CFRIMS - do you see "South Western Ontario" in the org tree?

The question was "Does Toronto fall under South Western Ontario" - the correct answer is "No, it is both the HQ and a detachment of Southern Ontario"

My information stands.

 

[Winds]

Buck_HRA, as you stated the restrictions are both local and national. Local restrictions do not fall neatly within the CFRC AORs, but are by health region and city. Some CFRCs span several provinces, so the rsstrictions can vary significantly by Det.

 

[LittleBlackDevil]

Without getting into specifics any in person interviewing is at a stand still, it is not created by the local CFRC's - it is CFRG policy in conjunction with the Regional/Provincial policies of where that CFRC is located.  Keep in mind that the CAF is a government agency that has to follow the policies being set out by the Region/Province that they are located.

As an added there isn't "less important" people in the recruitment process; however when CFRC staff are working from home and 50% staffing issues and a priority occupation such as Medical Officer requires an interview vice a Reserve HRA and there's only limited interview capacity, please use some common sense on who would get the interview.

These are unprecedented times; recruiting staff aren't putting delays on your file for the sake of it - there's actual reason behind it.  Please be patient.

Thanks for your post Buck, your points are well-taken and the information about recruiting staff at 50% and working from home adds more context. Just in reference to the highlighted, I hope none of my posts came across as suggesting I thought the recruiters were doing anything with my file for less than entirely appropriate reasons.

I'll admit to being a bit frustrated when I have heard about people applying for CIC in other regions who have been able to proceed with their applications and get enrolled, but I certainly recognize that is not the choice or fault of the recruiters I've dealt with at CFRC Hamilton. My file manager and Military Career Counsellor have been responsive and helpful throughout the process ... unfortunately they haven't been given a lot of information either.

 

[Gunnar]

And today I was sworn in during a regular parade night.  All on camera and masked up & etc., but still, there it was.  Now the official paperwork has to be sent in, stamped and filed, and hopefully everything works out...but this was not the "Hey, I'd like to join" paperwork, but the "How much tax do we deduct" paperwork.  Total length of my own Odyssey, about one year, which was apparently once standard, before COVID.

CO is trying to get everything into RCSU PDQ so that I can do BOTQ ASAP.  And then I can develop an even greater love of TLA's and MLMA's.

So, for the first time since I signed up on Army.ca in 2002, I have updated my profile description as well as my icons.  I am no longer (entirely) a Civilian.  I can't be on a jury.  I'm livin' the dream, serving the Queen.  Whee!