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You also don’t want to know the thickness of aircraft cabin walls.
British Military Current Events
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Happy Guy
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dimsum - good one 
I have spent many hours in the CC130 and in the Griffon so I have a good idea of how thick the walls are. Somehow, I always thought that the ship's wall would be much thicker gotten what it needs to contain within, endure the harsh conditions outside and some sort of ballistic protection for the sailors. I do understand that aircraft also operates in challenging environments and conditions too, but their extensive use of titanium and other alloys helps with the strength and reduce weight. Ships probably have a lesser concern with weight but also needs to worry about balance for seaworthiness - yes, I know that aircraft worry about cargo weight and balance too.
daftandbarmy
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OP BELONG - it might not be long for this world 
The army made its own map and plans to livestream a competition between Yung Filly and Elz the Witch on it next week.
America's Army was at one time the world's most (in)famous videogame military recruitment tool, but now that it's out of the picture the British are taking their shot. The British Army has revealed a new "Fortnite experience" called Operation: Belong, and it plans to livestream an influencer-led competition on it next week.
Yung Filly and Elz the Witch are set to compete head-to-head on the map next week, but it has yet to be approved by Epic Games and isn't available to the public.
It's possible that Epic could turn the British Army away. Its rules for commercial and sponsored content say that it "must not promote enrolment in the military," and Operation: Belong is pretty overtly a recruitment effort
"You belong here," the video says as rousing music plays in the background. "Work as one. Test your agility. Unlock the enigma. Conquer obstacles. Apply your training."
www.pcgamer.com
The British Army made its own Fortnite map as a recruitment tool, but Epic could block it
The army made its own map and plans to livestream a competition between Yung Filly and Elz the Witch on it next week.
America's Army was at one time the world's most (in)famous videogame military recruitment tool, but now that it's out of the picture the British are taking their shot. The British Army has revealed a new "Fortnite experience" called Operation: Belong, and it plans to livestream an influencer-led competition on it next week.
Yung Filly and Elz the Witch are set to compete head-to-head on the map next week, but it has yet to be approved by Epic Games and isn't available to the public.
It's possible that Epic could turn the British Army away. Its rules for commercial and sponsored content say that it "must not promote enrolment in the military," and Operation: Belong is pretty overtly a recruitment effort
"You belong here," the video says as rousing music plays in the background. "Work as one. Test your agility. Unlock the enigma. Conquer obstacles. Apply your training."
The British Army made its own Fortnite map as a recruitment tool, but Epic could block it
The army made its own map and plans to livestream a competition between Yung Filly and Elz the Witch on it next week.
www.pcgamer.com
daftandbarmy
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Trigger warning: Images of Reservist paratroopers doing chin ups prior to a deployment, if you scroll to the end
daftandbarmy
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Professional athletes meet the heavy metal
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Watch as the stars of the St Helens take on a series of military tasks. The elite rugby league players have been hosted in Cyprus by 1st Battalion the Duke of Lancaster’s Regiment. The pre-season Cyprus camp is a mix of fitness and rugby skills, wi
Watch as the stars of the St Helens take on a series of military tasks. The elite rugby league players have been hosted in Cyprus by 1st Battalion the Duke of Lancaster’s Regiment. The pre-season...
www.facebook.com
daftandbarmy
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The BOHICA moment....
A warning from the head of the British Army that the UK would not be prepared in the event of a war should be "listened to carefully", a former defence minister has said.
Tobias Ellwood told Sky News there was a "1939 feel to the world" and that Britain was not equipped to deal with "what is coming over the horizon".
He was responding to a report in The Daily Telegraph, which said that later on Wednesday, General Sir Patrick Sanders was due to give a speech warning the British public would have to be called up to fight if the UK goes to war because the military is too small.
Mr Ellwood, who has served alongside General Sir Patrick, said he was "one of the most cerebral thinkers that we've got" and a "strategist".
"We need to listen and listen carefully, we've been too complacent," Mr Ellwood said.
news.sky.com
"What's coming over the horizon should shock us. It should worry us and we are not prepared."
British Army chief's call to 'mobilise the nation' in the event of war 'should be listened to', Tobias Ellwood says
The MP says we should "listen carefully" after The Daily Telegraph reported that the head of the British Army will warn the British public they will have to be called up to fight in the event of a war because the military is too small.A warning from the head of the British Army that the UK would not be prepared in the event of a war should be "listened to carefully", a former defence minister has said.
Tobias Ellwood told Sky News there was a "1939 feel to the world" and that Britain was not equipped to deal with "what is coming over the horizon".
He was responding to a report in The Daily Telegraph, which said that later on Wednesday, General Sir Patrick Sanders was due to give a speech warning the British public would have to be called up to fight if the UK goes to war because the military is too small.
Mr Ellwood, who has served alongside General Sir Patrick, said he was "one of the most cerebral thinkers that we've got" and a "strategist".
"We need to listen and listen carefully, we've been too complacent," Mr Ellwood said.
British Army chief's call to 'mobilise the nation' in the event of war 'should be listened to', Tobias Ellwood says
The MP says we should "listen carefully" after The Daily Telegraph reported that the head of the British Army will warn the British public they will have to be called up to fight in the event of a war because the military is too small.
news.sky.com
"What's coming over the horizon should shock us. It should worry us and we are not prepared."
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Oh Canada.
We really do need a 'Skepticle' emoji, like a
so as not to be confused with the sad emoji I was just about to post the same article, you beat me to it... how do the various members of this site feel about what the good General is saying??
I know I've been roasted on here before for sounding pro Russian in regards to how our (re the west's) relationship with them has become what it currently is...I'm not sure I share the General's feelings that we need to start mobilizing the general population to be on a war footing...
If Russia was such an unpredictable threat, our flag officers wouldn't have been bringing their wives and kids to Latvia with them prior to 2021...
And now, because Ukraine turned out to be a nation of absolute warriors, I doubt Russia has the conventional means to wage any sort of ground war in the near to mid future.
Not to mention their naval losses, which may pose problems for them trying to exert influence in waters close to southern Europe. While they haven't suffered a ton of losses, the losses they have suffered have been quite valuable strategic level assets (a cruiser, a frigate/destroyer, a corvette, and a submarine - along with some other assets I'm sure)
I'm unsure of which port their aircraft carrier deploys from, but thats a fairly moot point after it suffered multiple fires as well as a drydock collapsing onto it...
They did launch a heavily armed nuclear submarine about a year ago, that hasn't been seen by western eyes since, as far as I know. We have to be careful not to forget about it, it's lurking out there somewhere...
Their air force hasn't really been in the fight as much as western air forces would have been, and their fighter fleet is largely in tact, so they could cause trouble in the air.
But we've done the math previously in the forum and NATO vs Russian squadrons puts NATO at a distinct 5:1 to 7:1 ratio (with a lot of European fighters having far fewer airframe hours on them than North American fighters, and many of them boasting to be Gen 4.5 in terms of upgrades)
To sprinkle some dust over their current challenges, sanctions don't make things any easier.
(Although I don't think western sanctions have really affected them as much as the west likes to think they have..)
So that's my long winded 2 cents (might be 4 cents at that length) about why I think the good British general may be sounding a bit alarmist, given the facts as they currently are.
Not to mention the Russians would have to plow their way through a few countries before they get to the UK...not to mention landing enough troops in the UK where the citizens would be forced to fight them off themselves. (That's a whole other convo)
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@CBH99 I agree with you that Russia as it stands now is a shell of its perceived might. But this was also the thinking post 1991, and it also glosses over the very real threat of China as well as the potential for a NATO schism (Hungary leading the charge....) in the Eastern flank.
I think there is merit to being this "alarmist", in the sense that Sir Patrick is being clear to the British people that the Peace Dividend is long gone and to be ready for "Dark Days Ahead."
Canadians on the other hand are still content with their heads in their asses sand; and our political leaders are more than contentnto keep their heads there too (as its far more comfortable for budgets). Gen Eyre has been yelling into the void and I dont see his replacement being as vocal...
I think there is merit to being this "alarmist", in the sense that Sir Patrick is being clear to the British people that the Peace Dividend is long gone and to be ready for "Dark Days Ahead."
Canadians on the other hand are still content with their heads in the
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Devil’s Advocate:
Russia’s performance in the past few years, coupled with the distance between it and Canadian centres of population, aren’t exactly going to convince scores of Canadians that it’s 1939 again.
Sure, they can lob nukes over the pole or use Russian Long Range Aviation to launch ALCMs, but that would be a very quick way to end the world.
daftandbarmy
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Yes, but not likely...
RangerRay
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Ever since I did BMQ, the idea of having a conscript as a fireteam partner who didn’t want to be there never appealed to me. I since read about the American experience with conscripts in Vietnam and that bolstered that opinion. However, in light of the manning crisis the CAF and other western militaries are facing and the arguments that conscription gets people from diverse backgrounds together to invest in a shared national project are starting to appeal to me. I’m still not entirely sold because serving with someone who is in motivated and there against their will still doesn’t appeal to me, but I do find those arguments intriguing.
FJAG
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It's not the lobbing nukes over the pole that's a concern. Its the mineral exploitation ships setting up in the Northwest Passage and Arctic Archipelago and that sort of thing. They're developing the tools for that sort of thing and we're not. We need to better stake our claims and be prepared to defend them. Incidentally - Canada needs nukes again.
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Agreed, but that is even a harder sell to the Canadian public (e.g. not us here in this forum) to bolster the CAF.It's not the lobbing nukes over the pole that's a concern. Its the mineral exploitation ships setting up in the Northwest Passage and Arctic Archipelago and that sort of thing. They're developing the tools for that sort of thing and we're not. We need to better stake our claims and be prepared to defend them. Incidentally - Canada needs nukes again.
Will the public opt for an expanded RCN and RCAF to counter mining ships? Will there be political will, and how would they be able to explain that to the public?
daftandbarmy
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We are all now the 'Pre-War' generation. If the balloon goes up we shall see, won't we?
Downing Street has been forced to rule out conscription after the head of the Army warned that British civilians would need to fight Russia in a future war.
Gen Sir Patrick Sanders said the UK needed a military that could not only expand rapidly but also “train and equip” a citizen army, in a speech first reported by this newspaper.
In his address to the International Armoured Vehicles conference in Twickenham on Wednesday, Gen Sir Patrick stressed that the Army, which is predicted to have just 72,500 fully trained soldiers by 2025, would not be big enough to fight an all-out war with Russia even if it numbered 120,000.
Defence sources previously told The Telegraph that Gen Sir Patrick wants there to be a shift in the mindset of British men and women, in which they think like troops and are mentally prepared for a possible war with Russia.
On Wednesday, the Prime Minister’s official spokesman said Downing Street did not agree with Sir Patrick’s views. Asked about the possibility of conscription, he said: “The British military has a proud position of being a voluntary force. As I say, there’s no plan for conscription.”
The spokesman said it was unhelpful to debate whether Britain was strong enough to fight Russia in the event of a war. “I think these kinds of hypothetical scenarios, talking about a conflict, are not helpful and I don’t think it’s right to engage with them,” he said, adding that the Government had invested “significant sums into our Armed Forces”.
However, a senior Whitehall source said “a wider conversation” needed to be had within the Government about operating in a more dangerous world.
It is understood No 10 did not want Gen Sir Patrick’s comments to be made public.
In his speech, Gen Sir Patrick stressed the importance of civilians in wartime, as demonstrated on the battlefields of Ukraine. “Ukraine brutally illustrates that regular armies start wars, citizen armies win them,” he said.
“We need an army designed to expand rapidly to enable the first echelon, resource the second echelon, and train and equip the citizen army that must follow.
“Within the next three years, it must be credible to talk of a British Army of 120,000, folding in our reserve and strategic reserve. But that’s not enough.”
In a recent speech, Grant Shapps, the Defence Secretary, warned that the UK was “moving from a post-war to a pre-war world” with conflict expected internationally within five years. Mr Shapps also said he would like Britain to spend 3 per cent of GDP on defence, up from the 2 per cent it is currently committed to spending.
On Wednesday, he said he was “working hard” to ensure the Armed Forces were not depleted amid a recruitment crisis.
Meanwhile, Estonia’s top military commander said Nato had underestimated Russia’s capacity to produce ammunition and recruit troops.
On Wednesday, Martin Herem, the commander of the Estonian defence forces, said fresh intelligence had prompted a re-evaluation among Nato allies and a spate of warnings to prepare for a long-term conflict in Ukraine.
He said Vladimir Putin’s military could produce several million artillery shells a year, far outstripping European efforts, and could recruit hundreds of thousands of new troops.
Gen Sir Patrick’s comments were welcomed in defence circles.
Gen Lord Dannatt, the former head of the Army, said Gen Sir Patrick was right to raise a scenario in which “if push comes to shove, as a population, we will all have to get involved and harness the manpower of the nation”.
“If international circumstances deteriorate where this country finds itself at war, fighting with an army of 75,000 soldiers will not be sustainable,” he said.
“Regular armies fight the opening rounds and the citizen army come in later and put on uniform; we saw it in the First and Second World Wars.
“That’s the reality, and it’s realistic to have these conversations. I certainly don’t criticise the Chief of the General Staff for doing so.”
A Whitehall source on Wednesday night told The Times that the training of Ukrainian civilians on British soil could go on to become a “mission rehearsal” to train people across the UK to follow suit.
James Heappey, the armed forces minister, indicated that a combined force of 500,000 troops and members of the public could be established.
Mr Shapps could take the step of recalling former service personnel, by law, including ex-officers and different ranks if they have left the forces in the past 18 years and are aged under 55.
It could see Mr Heappey return to the frontline along with Veterans Minister Johnny Mercer and Prince Harry under the move.
Tobias Ellwood, the former chairman of the defence select committee, said: “We must get into a mindset that the world is moving dangerously in the wrong direction and it is now impacting on our economy, first in the Black Sea, now in the Red Sea.
“The post-Cold War period of instability is over, a new chapter has begun where a new alliance of adversaries are testing the West’s timidity. Britain has done well to rekindle its Cold War statecraft, but we can only continue to do that if we upgrade our defence posture.”
A senior defence source added that he “did not disagree” with Gen Sir Patrick’s comments to mobilise the nation and said it was “a daily topic of conversation across the entire Army”.
“The Army is too small and is being asked to do too much for its resource and size,” he said.
The source cautioned that while there had not been conscription in the UK since the 1950s, regular people would have to be mobilised in the event of conflict with Russia. “It would have to be. Otherwise, the numbers don’t add up,” he said.
In his speech, Sir Patrick said: “Our friends in eastern and northern Europe, who feel the proximity of the Russian threat more acutely, are already acting prudently laying the foundations for national mobilisation.”
He added: “Taking preparatory steps to enable us to place our societies on a war footing when needed are now not really desirable, but essential.
“We won’t be immune. And as the pre-war generation, we’ve got to similarly prepare, and that is a whole nation undertaking. Ukraine brutally reminds us that while regular armies start wars, it is citizen armies that finish and win them.”
www.telegraph.co.uk
Sunak forced to rule out conscription as Russia war threat rises
Downing Street shoots down comments by Gen Sir Patrick Sanders that the UK must be ready to train and equip citizens for future conflictDowning Street has been forced to rule out conscription after the head of the Army warned that British civilians would need to fight Russia in a future war.
Gen Sir Patrick Sanders said the UK needed a military that could not only expand rapidly but also “train and equip” a citizen army, in a speech first reported by this newspaper.
In his address to the International Armoured Vehicles conference in Twickenham on Wednesday, Gen Sir Patrick stressed that the Army, which is predicted to have just 72,500 fully trained soldiers by 2025, would not be big enough to fight an all-out war with Russia even if it numbered 120,000.
Defence sources previously told The Telegraph that Gen Sir Patrick wants there to be a shift in the mindset of British men and women, in which they think like troops and are mentally prepared for a possible war with Russia.
On Wednesday, the Prime Minister’s official spokesman said Downing Street did not agree with Sir Patrick’s views. Asked about the possibility of conscription, he said: “The British military has a proud position of being a voluntary force. As I say, there’s no plan for conscription.”
The spokesman said it was unhelpful to debate whether Britain was strong enough to fight Russia in the event of a war. “I think these kinds of hypothetical scenarios, talking about a conflict, are not helpful and I don’t think it’s right to engage with them,” he said, adding that the Government had invested “significant sums into our Armed Forces”.
However, a senior Whitehall source said “a wider conversation” needed to be had within the Government about operating in a more dangerous world.
It is understood No 10 did not want Gen Sir Patrick’s comments to be made public.
In his speech, Gen Sir Patrick stressed the importance of civilians in wartime, as demonstrated on the battlefields of Ukraine. “Ukraine brutally illustrates that regular armies start wars, citizen armies win them,” he said.
“We need an army designed to expand rapidly to enable the first echelon, resource the second echelon, and train and equip the citizen army that must follow.
“Within the next three years, it must be credible to talk of a British Army of 120,000, folding in our reserve and strategic reserve. But that’s not enough.”
In a recent speech, Grant Shapps, the Defence Secretary, warned that the UK was “moving from a post-war to a pre-war world” with conflict expected internationally within five years. Mr Shapps also said he would like Britain to spend 3 per cent of GDP on defence, up from the 2 per cent it is currently committed to spending.
On Wednesday, he said he was “working hard” to ensure the Armed Forces were not depleted amid a recruitment crisis.
Meanwhile, Estonia’s top military commander said Nato had underestimated Russia’s capacity to produce ammunition and recruit troops.
On Wednesday, Martin Herem, the commander of the Estonian defence forces, said fresh intelligence had prompted a re-evaluation among Nato allies and a spate of warnings to prepare for a long-term conflict in Ukraine.
He said Vladimir Putin’s military could produce several million artillery shells a year, far outstripping European efforts, and could recruit hundreds of thousands of new troops.
Gen Sir Patrick’s comments were welcomed in defence circles.
Gen Lord Dannatt, the former head of the Army, said Gen Sir Patrick was right to raise a scenario in which “if push comes to shove, as a population, we will all have to get involved and harness the manpower of the nation”.
“If international circumstances deteriorate where this country finds itself at war, fighting with an army of 75,000 soldiers will not be sustainable,” he said.
“Regular armies fight the opening rounds and the citizen army come in later and put on uniform; we saw it in the First and Second World Wars.
“That’s the reality, and it’s realistic to have these conversations. I certainly don’t criticise the Chief of the General Staff for doing so.”
A Whitehall source on Wednesday night told The Times that the training of Ukrainian civilians on British soil could go on to become a “mission rehearsal” to train people across the UK to follow suit.
James Heappey, the armed forces minister, indicated that a combined force of 500,000 troops and members of the public could be established.
Mr Shapps could take the step of recalling former service personnel, by law, including ex-officers and different ranks if they have left the forces in the past 18 years and are aged under 55.
It could see Mr Heappey return to the frontline along with Veterans Minister Johnny Mercer and Prince Harry under the move.
Tobias Ellwood, the former chairman of the defence select committee, said: “We must get into a mindset that the world is moving dangerously in the wrong direction and it is now impacting on our economy, first in the Black Sea, now in the Red Sea.
“The post-Cold War period of instability is over, a new chapter has begun where a new alliance of adversaries are testing the West’s timidity. Britain has done well to rekindle its Cold War statecraft, but we can only continue to do that if we upgrade our defence posture.”
A senior defence source added that he “did not disagree” with Gen Sir Patrick’s comments to mobilise the nation and said it was “a daily topic of conversation across the entire Army”.
“The Army is too small and is being asked to do too much for its resource and size,” he said.
The source cautioned that while there had not been conscription in the UK since the 1950s, regular people would have to be mobilised in the event of conflict with Russia. “It would have to be. Otherwise, the numbers don’t add up,” he said.
In his speech, Sir Patrick said: “Our friends in eastern and northern Europe, who feel the proximity of the Russian threat more acutely, are already acting prudently laying the foundations for national mobilisation.”
He added: “Taking preparatory steps to enable us to place our societies on a war footing when needed are now not really desirable, but essential.
“We won’t be immune. And as the pre-war generation, we’ve got to similarly prepare, and that is a whole nation undertaking. Ukraine brutally reminds us that while regular armies start wars, it is citizen armies that finish and win them.”
Sunak forced to rule out conscription as Russia war threat rises
Downing Street shoots down comments by Gen Sir Patrick Sanders that the UK must be ready to train and equip citizens for future conflict
www.telegraph.co.uk
GK .Dundas
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We have no plan's for conscripts...you might want to make plans anyway and have plans for Industrial mobilization as well .
OldSolduer
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Remember these words:
“Conscription if necessary, not necessarily conscription “
PM William Lyon McKenzie King.
Conscription here is as likely as the return to capital punishment.
GK .Dundas
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I was actually talking about the Brits.
God knows we could really do with some sort of mobilization plans .
Think of this as an exercises in strategic planning.
God knows we could really do with some sort of mobilization plans .
Think of this as an exercises in strategic planning.
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Yes, but they don’t have the same hangups about conscription as the Brits, or us.
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