daftandbarmy
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ArmyRick said:
My guess is they'll become smaller and more 'special', something like the US Marine Raiders.
British Military Current Events
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My guess is they'll become smaller and more 'special', something like the US Marine Raiders.
daftandbarmy
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The 'Grim Reaper's' tour continues 
. I have to agree with him on the technology thing though....
Dominic Cummings to tour sensitive MoD sites amid defence review
PM’s adviser will visit SAS and Porton Down, and has been to MI5 and MI6, leaked email says
Dominic Cummings is to visit the SAS and four other of the Ministry of Defence’s most sensitive sites, a leaked email has revealed, at a time when the armed forces are battling to avoid swingeing cuts in an upcoming review.
MoD sources confirmed a personal tour had been organised for the prime minister’s chief adviser, which will also take in the specialist military research laboratories at Porton Down, Wiltshire.
According to an email seen by the Sydney Morning Herald, the Cummings tour will also cover the Special Boat Service, defence intelligence and the Rapid Capabilities Office, which is responsible for special project development. Cummings has visited MI5 and MI6, the domestic and foreign intelligence agencies, twice already, it said.
The idea is to showcase some of the MoD’s flagship operations to an adviser who has complained that military procurement “has continued to squander billions of pounds” and who has written in his personal blog of the potential for drone warfare.
The tour was deemed sufficiently important by Ben Wallace, the defence secretary, that he and his special adviser wanted to arrange its outline themselves before handing over to officials, according to the email.
“The secretary of state explicitly does not wish anyone to engage Number 10 or Dominic Cummings on this,” the email said. “It is for the [the minister’s special adviser] and the secretary of state to engage in the first instance before delegating to officials.”
It is understood Cummings’ clearance level was checked to ensure he was permitted to visit the national security sites on the list and to engage in open conversations with troops, researchers and intelligence specialists present.
Downing Street has restarted an integrated review of defence and foreign policy, which was delayed by the coronavirus crisis. It aims to look at the strategic objectives for the armed and security forces for the next five years and is intended to feed into the autumn spending round.
Over the weekend there was speculation that the armed forces faced significant cuts, including reducing the size of the army by nearly 20,000, to 55,000 personnel, but this was repeatedly denied by Wallace, who said the review process had hardly begun.
On Tuesday, the Conservative backbencher Mark Francois warned the head of the armed forces that Cummings would “sort you out”, after a lengthy complaint about the MoD’s procurement processes.
Speaking at the defence select committee, the influential Brexiter told Gen Sir Nick Carter, the chief of the defence staff: “Can we just make a plea to you. You are the professional head of the armed forces. Please nip back to the department and ask them to sort their bloody selves out, because if not, Cummings is going to come down there and sort you out his own way, and you won’t like it.”
Cummings’ status within government appears to have rapidly recovered after he endured intense criticism for travelling to and around County Durham with his family during lockdown.
His enthusiasm for the potential for military technology is well known. In March 2019, before he entered government, Cummings wrote: “A teenager will be able to deploy a drone from their smartphone to sink one of these multibillion-dollar platforms. Such a teenager could already take out the stage of a Downing Street photo op with a little imagination and initiative, as I wrote about years ago.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/08/dominic-cummings-to-tour-sensitive-mod-sites-amid-defence-review
. I have to agree with him on the technology thing though.... Dominic Cummings to tour sensitive MoD sites amid defence review
PM’s adviser will visit SAS and Porton Down, and has been to MI5 and MI6, leaked email says
Dominic Cummings is to visit the SAS and four other of the Ministry of Defence’s most sensitive sites, a leaked email has revealed, at a time when the armed forces are battling to avoid swingeing cuts in an upcoming review.
MoD sources confirmed a personal tour had been organised for the prime minister’s chief adviser, which will also take in the specialist military research laboratories at Porton Down, Wiltshire.
According to an email seen by the Sydney Morning Herald, the Cummings tour will also cover the Special Boat Service, defence intelligence and the Rapid Capabilities Office, which is responsible for special project development. Cummings has visited MI5 and MI6, the domestic and foreign intelligence agencies, twice already, it said.
The idea is to showcase some of the MoD’s flagship operations to an adviser who has complained that military procurement “has continued to squander billions of pounds” and who has written in his personal blog of the potential for drone warfare.
The tour was deemed sufficiently important by Ben Wallace, the defence secretary, that he and his special adviser wanted to arrange its outline themselves before handing over to officials, according to the email.
“The secretary of state explicitly does not wish anyone to engage Number 10 or Dominic Cummings on this,” the email said. “It is for the [the minister’s special adviser] and the secretary of state to engage in the first instance before delegating to officials.”
It is understood Cummings’ clearance level was checked to ensure he was permitted to visit the national security sites on the list and to engage in open conversations with troops, researchers and intelligence specialists present.
Downing Street has restarted an integrated review of defence and foreign policy, which was delayed by the coronavirus crisis. It aims to look at the strategic objectives for the armed and security forces for the next five years and is intended to feed into the autumn spending round.
Over the weekend there was speculation that the armed forces faced significant cuts, including reducing the size of the army by nearly 20,000, to 55,000 personnel, but this was repeatedly denied by Wallace, who said the review process had hardly begun.
On Tuesday, the Conservative backbencher Mark Francois warned the head of the armed forces that Cummings would “sort you out”, after a lengthy complaint about the MoD’s procurement processes.
Speaking at the defence select committee, the influential Brexiter told Gen Sir Nick Carter, the chief of the defence staff: “Can we just make a plea to you. You are the professional head of the armed forces. Please nip back to the department and ask them to sort their bloody selves out, because if not, Cummings is going to come down there and sort you out his own way, and you won’t like it.”
Cummings’ status within government appears to have rapidly recovered after he endured intense criticism for travelling to and around County Durham with his family during lockdown.
His enthusiasm for the potential for military technology is well known. In March 2019, before he entered government, Cummings wrote: “A teenager will be able to deploy a drone from their smartphone to sink one of these multibillion-dollar platforms. Such a teenager could already take out the stage of a Downing Street photo op with a little imagination and initiative, as I wrote about years ago.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/08/dominic-cummings-to-tour-sensitive-mod-sites-amid-defence-review
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For Reference - Back in 2019 the UK MOD under Penny Mordaunt created something called Strategic Command out of an organization called Joint Forces Command created in 2012.
Its Wiki list of organizations makes for interesting reading.
In addition there is the UK Intelligence Community
It is also interesting that it is being floated that the Royal Marines (proper as opposed to the All-Arms Brigade) is being considered as a reinforcement for the Directorate of Special Forces. At the same time, back in January, this article made it into the public domain.
So, some discussion of having the Paras join the Marines in operating in the Grey Area between conventional (parliamentary approved) and special (executive authority) operations.
All of these entities are actively employed every day, together with much of the RN and RAF. Whether or not infantry and armoured troops are doing anything other than polishing floors and protecting elephants in Kenya.
Where does that leave the Regular (parliamentary) Army?
Its Wiki list of organizations makes for interesting reading.
In addition there is the UK Intelligence Community
It is also interesting that it is being floated that the Royal Marines (proper as opposed to the All-Arms Brigade) is being considered as a reinforcement for the Directorate of Special Forces. At the same time, back in January, this article made it into the public domain.
So, some discussion of having the Paras join the Marines in operating in the Grey Area between conventional (parliamentary approved) and special (executive authority) operations.
All of these entities are actively employed every day, together with much of the RN and RAF. Whether or not infantry and armoured troops are doing anything other than polishing floors and protecting elephants in Kenya.
Where does that leave the Regular (parliamentary) Army?
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Nudder thought....
If Her Majesty is paying for both policemen and soldiers, and the policemen need more help to keep order at home, while the soldiers are kicking their heels looking for things to do, isn't Her Majesty right to consider how she can put those soldiers onto the streets with the police? Within the law? Without frightening the public?
Isn't the ultimate expression of that simply to stop hiring soldiers and start hiring policemen?
If our enemies are stepping up hybrid warfare efforts that create more demand for police than soldiers isn't it right to shift the emphasis? More Police. More Special Forces. Less Conventional Forces.
If Her Majesty is paying for both policemen and soldiers, and the policemen need more help to keep order at home, while the soldiers are kicking their heels looking for things to do, isn't Her Majesty right to consider how she can put those soldiers onto the streets with the police? Within the law? Without frightening the public?
Isn't the ultimate expression of that simply to stop hiring soldiers and start hiring policemen?
If our enemies are stepping up hybrid warfare efforts that create more demand for police than soldiers isn't it right to shift the emphasis? More Police. More Special Forces. Less Conventional Forces.
FJAG
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Chris Pook said:
The role it's had for the last 80 years. Being a deterrent and, if necessary, a near-peer-fighting force to keep in check ex-KGB megalomaniacs with a sixteen-more-years mandate to "Make Russia Great Again".
In the post-Soviet era Europe and Canada made the mistake of turning to largely cheaper, lighter, more-agile forces to counter fanciful terrorist threats. That turned us mostly into a hollow force. Let's not make the further mistake of thinking that special operations forces will be a panacea to cure every security problem that will face the western world.
I'm all for remote controlled UAVs and tanks and hypersonic missiles and cyber warfare but we're not there yet and for the time being (and probably a long time into the future) well-armed wetware operating out of mobile steel will still have to be a major component of our respective tool kits.
Chris Pook said:
No! See above. Deterrence and potential combat power in an emergency does not equal soldiers "kicking their heels looking for things to do." (This also gets me back to a less expensive, well organized, equipped and trained reserve force which during it's "spare" time can carry on with productive civilian work)
Police and special operations forces both have very valuable roles. Deterring and facing down Putin is not one of them.
:cheers:
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But Putin is not presenting a real threat. He has created a Potemkin village out of superannuated, rusting and irreplaceable Brezhnev era relics. He has no capability to produce adequate mass in new weaponry.
What he IS doing is creating dissent and disorder, the skill sets he learned as an officer cadet, and using some conventional capabilities in an unconventional manner. That is precisely where he needs to be faced down. It will be a long time before a Red Army rolls over the plains of Kursk or the Fulda Gap again.
And as for China.... we are debating how to manage keeping a carrier afloat off the coast of China. How are you going to get 3 RM Bde, or the USMC, or even the 82nd Airborne into China? 10th Mountain to Nepal might be a better bet. How do you get Abrams and Paladdins on to Everest?
The rules have changed again.
:cheers:
What he IS doing is creating dissent and disorder, the skill sets he learned as an officer cadet, and using some conventional capabilities in an unconventional manner. That is precisely where he needs to be faced down. It will be a long time before a Red Army rolls over the plains of Kursk or the Fulda Gap again.
And as for China.... we are debating how to manage keeping a carrier afloat off the coast of China. How are you going to get 3 RM Bde, or the USMC, or even the 82nd Airborne into China? 10th Mountain to Nepal might be a better bet. How do you get Abrams and Paladdins on to Everest?
The rules have changed again.
:cheers:
lenaitch
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Chris Pook said:
No, because the people who pay Her Majesty's taxes who probably never accept it, with recently fresh memories of the blurred police-military lines in Northern Ireland. Would the domestic military (dressed so as to not frighten the public) be governed by their CofC, police CoC or the local police governance committees? Operating within the law implies both training and authority. Paramilitary policing is something functioning democracies tend not to strive for.
If you atrophy the military in favour of the police to satisfy a domestic need, At what point do you ultimately limit the ability of the military to go off-shore, because you can't deploy all of those police officers they hired.
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I don't disagree lenaitch. The Brits in particular are not fans of standing armies precisely because of that. I think that is in large part why they were so much behind the concept of the separate civilian police force.
But.
Other countries do "bridge the gap" between civil and military authorities with paramilitary forces while laying some claim to being democracies. The Italians have their Carabinieri. The Spanish Guardia Civil. The Dutch Marechaussee. The French Gendarmerie.
In Canada we have our own exploitable opening in the field. The Gendarmerie Royale du Canada. Which originated with a military role and has adopted it in the past.
But.
Other countries do "bridge the gap" between civil and military authorities with paramilitary forces while laying some claim to being democracies. The Italians have their Carabinieri. The Spanish Guardia Civil. The Dutch Marechaussee. The French Gendarmerie.
In Canada we have our own exploitable opening in the field. The Gendarmerie Royale du Canada. Which originated with a military role and has adopted it in the past.
lenaitch
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Fun facts regarding why, in the UK, the army is known as the British Army as opposed to the Royal Army like the other services. It seems that it is based on the history of regiments, etc. being privately raised by local gentry and swearing allegiance to the Crown, rather than by the Crown itself. The English Civil War also raised concerns about the Crown 'owning' a large standing army. To this day, parliament must pass the Armed Forces Act at least every five years to authorize the existence of a standing army. In terms of domestic policing, I would imagine that the supremacy of parliament and the laws and authorities it creates led to the dominance of territorial civilian police, as opposed to an entity under the direct authority of the Crown.
I would argue that the NWMP originated with a military role. True that it was organized on a military basis but it has always been a police service. It enforced federal law (such as they were at the time - more accurately perhaps the 'federal will' or 'federal policy') in western Canada when there was no other civilian governance; hence, no other laws to enforce, until the formation of provinces. At least we formed a police body, as opposed to the U Army 'opening up the west'. The US has arguably clarified the domestic role of their military with their Posse Comitatus Act (1878) which prohibits the US Army from acting as domestic law enforcement (not counting the National Guard operating under State authority).
I don't know enough about the governance and jurisdictional issues of the other countries with paramilitary federal police to comment.
I would argue that the NWMP originated with a military role. True that it was organized on a military basis but it has always been a police service. It enforced federal law (such as they were at the time - more accurately perhaps the 'federal will' or 'federal policy') in western Canada when there was no other civilian governance; hence, no other laws to enforce, until the formation of provinces. At least we formed a police body, as opposed to the U Army 'opening up the west'. The US has arguably clarified the domestic role of their military with their Posse Comitatus Act (1878) which prohibits the US Army from acting as domestic law enforcement (not counting the National Guard operating under State authority).
I don't know enough about the governance and jurisdictional issues of the other countries with paramilitary federal police to comment.
daftandbarmy
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lenaitch said:
There, FTFY
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India has quite a few paramilitary forces, most developed under British:
https://www.clearias.com/defense-forces-and-paramilitary-forces-of-india/
I especially like the Indo Tibetan Border Police (not British):
https://www.itbpolice.nic.in/Aboutus_new/history&role/history&role.html
Mark
Ottawa
https://www.clearias.com/defense-forces-and-paramilitary-forces-of-india/
I especially like the Indo Tibetan Border Police (not British):
https://www.itbpolice.nic.in/Aboutus_new/history&role/history&role.html
Mark
Ottawa
FJAG
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daftandbarmy
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FJAG said:
The most important fact: 'while keeping her drink in her hand'
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FJAG said:
So, just to be clear, she had been drinking heavily? I don't think the article makes that clear.
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