Bringing 'Em Back or Not? (I.D.'ed Cdn ISIS fighters, families, kids?)

[brihard]

Looks like a second one, Oumaima Chouay, also returned to Canada at the same time. She has been arrested and charged with several terrorism offences.

Arrest of Canadian citizen returning from Syria | Royal Canadian Mounted Police

 

[Czech_pivo]

It would set up two tiers of citizenship; one revocable, the other not. Very clear cut discrimination based on national original case under s. 15 of the Charter. Now, a sufficiently motivated government could legislate it anyway and use the Notwithstanding Clause, but absent that it’s doomed to fail.

So when someone takes the Oath of Citizenship to become a CDN, the meaning behind that Oath means nothing in essence? “That I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada.”
Can it not be argued that when someone actively chooses to openly break those laws that they have broken their Oath of Citizenship, thereby negating their own CDN citizenship?

 

[Halifax Tar]

So when someone takes the Oath of Citizenship to become a CDN, the meaning behind that Oath means nothing in essence? “That I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada.”
Can it not be argued that when someone actively chooses to openly break those laws that they have broken their Oath of Citizenship, thereby negating their own CDN citizenship?

I want to agree with you so badly. But I suspect there is some legal eagle who will show some legislation that counters and wins.

 

[brihard]

So when someone takes the Oath of Citizenship to become a CDN, the meaning behind that Oath means nothing in essence? “That I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada.”
Can it not be argued that when someone actively chooses to openly break those laws that they have broken their Oath of Citizenship, thereby negating their own CDN citizenship?

It could be argued, but likely unsuccessfully. The punishments for crimes are set out in the laws establishing those crimes. I described the Charter considerations that would likely make this untenable; I stand by what I already said.

 

[The Bread Guy]

So when someone takes the Oath of Citizenship to become a CDN, the meaning behind that Oath means nothing in essence? “That I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada.”
Can it not be argued that when someone actively chooses to openly break those laws that they have broken their Oath of Citizenship, thereby negating their own CDN citizenship?

If that's the case, what's stopping the government from revoking the citizenship of someone who's born in Canada and never had to swear an oath to "faithfully observe the laws of Canada"? Guilty of breaking the law? No more citizenship for you, even if you're born here - off you go to where you came from! Oh, wait ...

I think that's where you get the concepts of two-tiered citizenship and not leaving people stateless that don't fly. I'm not a lawyer, either, so I stand to be corrected.

 

[Czech_pivo]

If that's the case, what's stopping the government from revoking the citizenship of someone who's born in Canada and never had to swear an oath to "faithfully observe the laws of Canada"? Guilty of breaking the law? No more citizenship for you, even if you're born here - off you go to where you came from! Oh, wait ...

I think that's where you get the concepts of two-tiered citizenship and not leaving people stateless that don't fly. I'm not a lawyer, either, so I stand to be corrected.

Then what's the point of taking an 'Oath of Citizenship', why bother it all that crap if the words behind it hold no water?

 

[ueo]

Update: Kimberly Polman has been repatriated and arrested, with informed speculation that her return to Canada may be linked to major medical issues.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/two-women-two-children-repatriated-syrian-detention-camps-1.6629838

Omg, yet another ' POLITACAL' cue jumper. Bet she gets immediate top tier med help. no 36 hr ER waits.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Omg, yet another ' POLITACAL' cue jumper. Bet she gets immediate top tier med help. no 36 hr ER waits.

How is a Canadian citizen coming back to Canada a queue jumper?

 

[ueo]

How is a Canadian citizen coming back to Canada a queue jumper?

Not if they stand in line for srevices. Bet no one reports on howv fast she recieves attention. BTW didnt she support ISIS through marriage contrary to federal law?

 

[The Bread Guy]

Not if they stand in line for srevices. Bet no one reports on howv fast she recieves attention.

Guessing that in jail, they get whatever health care services people in jail get.

BTW didnt she support ISIS through marriage contrary to federal law?

We'll have to see what the court says.

 

[brihard]

Not if they stand in line for srevices. Bet no one reports on howv fast she recieves attention. BTW didnt she support ISIS through marriage contrary to federal law?

1. She was born in Canada and is entitled to re-enter the country.

2. She was immediately arrested on return, but crown will have to determine if she can be proven to have done anything that reaches the threshold of a chargeable offence. That can be difficult to establish, and to prove in court under the same laws that protect you and I if we’re accused of something.

 

[KevinB]

If that's the case, what's stopping the government from revoking the citizenship of someone who's born in Canada and never had to swear an oath to "faithfully observe the laws of Canada"? Guilty of breaking the law? No more citizenship for you, even if you're born here - off you go to where you came from! Oh, wait ...

I think that's where you get the concepts of two-tiered citizenship and not leaving people stateless that don't fly. I'm not a lawyer, either, so I stand to be corrected.

You cannot revoke citizenship from a single national born there. You can just dump them in a deep hole.

Dual nationals by naturalization however can have the naturalized citizenship revoked if it is shown that they fraudulently acquired citizenship, usually by lying on the naturalization forms, and by fraudulently taking the oath of citizenship.
Down here it’s generally used for war criminals that lied of their naturalization paperwork (South Africans and FYR countries these days).

 

[Maxman1]

Guessing that in jail, they get whatever health care services people in jail get.

 

[brihard]

You cannot revoke citizenship from a single national born there. You can just dump them in a deep hole.

Dual nationals by naturalization however can have the naturalized citizenship revoked if it is shown that they fraudulently acquired citizenship, usually by lying on the naturalization forms, and by fraudulently taking the oath of citizenship.
Down here it’s generally used for war criminals that lied of their naturalization paperwork (South Africans and FYR countries these days).

Similar here, and actually some of the same with war criminals (FRY and Rwanda among others). Misrepresentation in the process is grounds for loss of permanent residency and citizenship. However, that’s only where citizenship was itself acquired fraudulently. Later criminality doesn’t cut it.

 

[OldSolduer]

Guessing that in jail, they get whatever health care services people in jail get.

In jail if you have a bad (fill in whatever body part here) or you have a condition that is chronic, you get health care super quick. No questions asked, you go on a med escort sometimes twice a day for IV treatment etc. If you are the average citizen, you get to wait while these assholes take your spot.

These "guests" when they are on the outside don't eat correctly (something they have in common with most people), don't exercise enough (unless they are avoiding arrest), use alcohol and illicit substances (meth etc) and often take advantage of the law abiding citizens .

When they are incarcerated they sure do care then, and will call the Ombudsman if things don't go their way. Big babies.

 

[The Bread Guy]

In jail if you have a bad (fill in whatever body part here) or you have a condition that is chronic, you get health care super quick. No questions asked, you go on a med escort sometimes twice a day for IV treatment etc.

These "guests" when they are on the outside don't eat correctly (something they have in common with most people), don't exercise enough (unless they are avoiding arrest), use alcohol and illicit substances (meth etc) and often take advantage of the law abiding citizens .

When they are incarcerated they sure do care then, and will call the Ombudsman if things don't go their way. Big babies.

Thanks for the rest of the story.

 

[OldSolduer]

Thanks for the rest of the story.

You're welcome.

And the more high profile one of these assholes is the quicker the health care.

And the taxpayer gets bumped down a notch.

 

[Kat Stevens]

1. She was born in Canada and is entitled to re-enter the country.

2. She was immediately arrested on return, but crown will have to determine if she can be proven to have done anything that reaches the threshold of a chargeable offence. That can be difficult to establish, and to prove in court under the same laws that protect you and I if we’re accused of something.

Out on bail already, 10.5 mil apology to follow shortly.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Out on bail already, 10.5 mil apology to follow shortly.

Any info on the price for bond? On who put up the $$ for her to make the bail amount?

Question to those on here will a legal background - "prohibited from possessing a cellphone or any other device capable of connecting to the internet" - that phase/condition, what if the individual sits next to another individual holding a cellphone or device connected to the internet and then instructs the person holding said device on where to go on the internet and accessing the internet in that manner, does that break the terms of the bond? Since the wording states "prohibited from possessing", can she borrow/use said device?

 

[Czech_pivo]

Any info on the price for bond? On who put up the $$ for her to make the bail amount?

Question to those on here will a legal background - "prohibited from possessing a cellphone or any other device capable of connecting to the internet" - that phase/condition, what if the individual sits next to another individual holding a cellphone or device connected to the internet and then instructs the person holding said device on where to go on the internet and accessing the internet in that manner, does that break the terms of the bond? Since the wording states "prohibited from possessing", can she borrow/use said device?

Also, since she has not been a resident of BC or any province for greater than 1yr, she should no longer be eligible for ANY provincially covered health care - none, zero.

She should be treated the exact same as a Canadian citizen who might have moved to the US for 3yrs for work purposes, had no longer been a resident of Canada and may or may not have filed an income tax in Canada during this time, dependant on if they had any 'substantial' assets remaining in Canada (like a house or non-registered brokerage account). Once you are no longer a resident of Ontario (and all other CDN provinces I believe) for greater than 7 months your OHIP coverage ceases for 1yr. There is a separate process to get OHIP reinstated, from what I understand its not automatically given to you once you return.