OldSolduer
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A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian.
Bringing 'Em Back or Not? (I.D.'ed Cdn ISIS fighters, families, kids?)
- Thread starter The Bread Guy
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FormerHorseGuard
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commit a crime go to jail. I am sure there are or were laws being broken here in Canada, and over there. Let the lawyers over there sort it out then maybe we can do something
Canada should have prosecuted Toronto man who was ‘voice of ISIS,’ lawyer says | Globalnews.ca
Mohammed Khalifa is the first Canadian ISIS member caught in Syria to be taken to the U.S.
globalnews.ca
There are a few things about these types of articles that bug me:
a) “It is unclear if Ottawa knew that the US would be taking Mr. Khalifa into custody”
So as the reporter of the article, you are basically saying you don’t know if Ottawa was aware or not. So why bother writing it? The RCMP National Security Division has constant communication with the FBI Counter Terror Division (constant as in daily.)
I’m sure the folks on this file were well aware. Whether they briefed some bureaucrat about it, who knows.
b) “We shouldn’t be relying on the FBI to repatriate Canadians for us, in this manner.”
We didn’t ask the FBI to repatriate this person, nor were we relying on them to bring this person back to North America. This person is not someone in distress the same way a hostage would be, we weren’t relying on the FBI to rescue them and bring them home.
They are an admitted member of ISIS, and our government chose to not give a shit about their well-being. (I am usually very frustrated by the federal government in action on many things, but in this case I am finding it hard to really care to be honest.)
c) When government agencies refer questions to each other, don’t provide strong statements, etc - it eats away at public confidence, and gives the appearance of poor leadership.
How difficult is it to make a broad yet vague statement akin to what the FBI said on the matter?
“Anybody who participates in terrorism or terrorist activities, or supports terrorist activities in any way, will absolutely be held accountable. We have coordinated this file with our American colleagues, and Mr. Khalifa was brought to the United States to be prosecuted.”
Boom - it’s that easy to maintain public confidence in our agencies, and not appear to be a bumbling idiot.
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How Germany's handling one of their cases ....
I can't read minds, but that section can also be read as, "nobody we've talked to wants to say out loud if Canada knew about charges being laid in the U.S. I'm going to guess someone at some level "knew," too, but admitting it would maybe show their hand too much - or give defence counsel (who seems to contend that Canadians should be tried in a Canadian system) some ammo. That's why you won't be likely to hear anything as clear and reasonably unambiguous as this ....
"Bumbling" can also be in the eye of the beholder, too -- those who would hear that and say, "we're going to let the Americans hold people accountable for us?" might not see that as a statement instilling public confidence in Canadian agencies and processes.
Happy Monday, Bread Guy
- Agreed very much so about Canadian agencies staying mute on the matter, as it could give defence counsel options/ammo.
- I was thinking more or less as a generality (about public statements), rather than just this specific case.
Having various government agencies basically say “We don’t have this information, please forward your questions to insert agency here.” And then having that agency also more or less play dumb - doesn’t inspire confidence, even if it is beyond said that way quite deliberately.
The clear and unambiguous statements are more or less standard talk for most press releases, press conferences, address to the nation, etc.
Strongly oppose terrorism and violence, while also quietly preaching our values, is something the average Joe Public can hear and feel good about.
It’s not like the government doesn’t use basically watermark/robotic responses to almost any other issue.
Either way, I totally agree with your points
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When it comes to almost all government writing, though, it's often that second bit that leads to a shortage of that first bit #AccuracyBrevityClarityPickAnyTwo
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At least she’ll be monitored by federal agencies, and is returning here on her own dime.
MilEME09
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Bring them back they said, it will be fine they said, they aren't a threat they said. ....
Who said it’ll be ‘fine’, in the sense of ‘bring them home and wash our hands- we’re done’? I don’t think any credible voice has ever said there won’t be a need to continue to monitor anyone coming back who is suspected of radicalism.
I’m speculating here, but the fact that this includes mention of ‘war crimes’ suggests that this investigation is one that predates her return, as opposed to offending alleged to have happened since she came back to Canada.
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Latest on this dude from the US DoJ ...CANCIT “Abu Ridwan al-Kanadi” - Mohammed Khalifa - has been charged by the US and brought to Virginia in FBI custody. This is a big development.
This guy was the English language “voice of ISIS”. Anyone who’s seen any of their slick propaganda videos - particularly Flames of War and its sequel - has heard this guy. He’s been in Kurdish custody for a while now.
This could be one of the most prominent ISIS foreign fighter trials to come.
ISIS Media Figure and Foreign Fighter Charged with Conspiring to Provide Material Support to a Terrorist Organization, Resulting in Death
As alleged in a criminal complaint unsealed today in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia, Mohammed Khalifa, a Saudi-born Canadian citizen, who was a leading figure in the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham’s (ISIS) English Media Section and served as an ISIS fighter, was...www.justice.gov
Leading ISIS Media Figure and Foreign Fighter Sentenced to Life Imprisonment
A Saudi-born Canadian citizen was sentenced today to life imprisonment for conspiring to provide material support to the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS), a designated foreign terrorist organization, resulting in death.
www.justice.gov
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He'll be back in Canada in under five years and sign up for the $10mil relocation benefit.
No. No he won’t. He was facing investigation and likely prosecution here had the Americans not gotten him first.
RCMP preparing charges against Toronto IT worker who became ‘voice of ISIS,’ document reveals | Globalnews.ca
The RCMP affidavit alleges Mohammed Khalifa was an ISIS fighter and commander who produced execution videos.
globalnews.ca
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No. No he won’t. He was facing investigation and likely prosecution here had the Americans not gotten him first.
RCMP preparing charges against Toronto IT worker who became ‘voice of ISIS,’ document reveals | Globalnews.ca
The RCMP affidavit alleges Mohammed Khalifa was an ISIS fighter and commander who produced execution videos.
Interesting…
At first I thought “Hunh?”
Then I recalled if information provided by journalists (especially heavily state-funded) is good enough for the Canadian government to enact the Emergencies Act, then info provided by journalists to the RCMP should result in a slam dunk prosecution of Khalifa.
Speaking only speculatively, an investigative interview of someone held in a Kurdish prisoner camp would be absolutely worthless for a prosecution in Canadian courts. You’d be setting the defence up for a slam dunk argument that the statement was not given voluntarily or freely, and that the suspect felt coercion from the Kurds to provide the statement. Custodial suspect statements call for a lot of caution to protect legal admissibility.
Anything someone says to investigators overseas they can say if and when they end up back in Canada, and Canadian authorities would be in a position to make sure that the suspect cannot argue coercion. We don’t have that luxury for people in foreign custody.
America has very different standards of evidentiary admissibility than we do. They get away with some ridiculous stuff.
That’s really only just ruling out seeking a confession from a suspect in a Kurdish prison camp. Speaking generally, there are many different ways to investigate terrorism offences for Canadians who travel overseas to do extremist stuff.
Khalifa was probably the most prominent, but he’s not the only Canadian foreign fighter in custody. I have some notion of how these might generally play out- but only a notion, and only generally. It’ll always depend on the fact set and the admissible evidence in any individual case. I suspect we’ll see movement when privately retained lawyers force the government’s hand on repatriation. That’ll start with the ISIS wives.
Khalifa was probably the most prominent, but he’s not the only Canadian foreign fighter in custody. I have some notion of how these might generally play out- but only a notion, and only generally. It’ll always depend on the fact set and the admissible evidence in any individual case. I suspect we’ll see movement when privately retained lawyers force the government’s hand on repatriation. That’ll start with the ISIS wives.
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Wish there was an emoti for throwing up in disgust!
OldSolduer
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I’m interested in what this traitor has to say about Canada now he’s in a US prison. I say let him ROT
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