Artillery Officer Merged Thread

[GnyHwy]

What job options are there for artillery officers (other than going into air defence STA)?

Also: Can you choose not to be employed as a FOO (are there other options at that point of your career) or is it standard and part of the job (no options)?

If your not AD, STA or FOO, that doesn't leave a whole of options for Jnr Os; for Jnr Os, those are pretty much it, other than thankless admin jobs. 

Being employed as a FOO is generally sought after and expected if you are in the field artillery.  Many senior persons I have met throughout the years refer back to their time in a FOO party as some of the best times they ever had in the military. 

P.S. Simian, I fixed the would to read could.

 

[jeffb]

With the current plan all Artillery officers will do a FOO course, but not all will be employed as FOOs.  2-4 years is about correct, but I believe we are a little back logged so the wait may be closer to 4 or even longer; potential and performance can make that number fluctuate.

After getting the course,and being employed as a FOO, you will only be there for a couple years; potentially 3-4 depending in situation.  Normally after a couple of years as a FOO, maybe a FAC crse, a FOO moves onto a command staff job, or tech staff, or maybe 2 i/c (BK) of a battery.  After these you could be promoted to Maj and after that, there are too many branches to cover.

I can't speak for how this works in the Reserves but in the Reg Force field regiments there is no way you will get a FOO position for 3-4 years. The average now is more like 6 months to a year before doing a BK job or being sent off to a RSS position, recruiting center, IG (Instructor in Gunnery) course, Tech Staff or some other random staff job.

The "average" career progression at the regiment right now, if there is such a thing as average, sees a DEO (Direct Entry Officer) junior officer arriving at the Regiment with 1-2 years already in the training system. They are usually employed as a Troop Leader or Troop Commander for 1-2 years. They may also fill a role as an Admin Officer at the Battery Level or be employed as the A/Adj, A/RCPO or A/OPS O. After the 1-2 year period as a TC/TL, they are looking at going on the FOO course. Following TOC (turret operator course) and the LAV OPV course, they are loaded on the FOO course. They should be finishing the FOO course with about 2-3 years in the Regiment with most being closer to 3 years. After the FOO course if you are employed as a FOO or FOO/FAC, expect to be there about a year. Following that, it's either posted out of the Regiment on your first extra regimental employment (ERE) or into a more senior role in the Regiment such as Ops O, Adj or as a BK, FSCC O, STACC O, etc.  In all this time they will be expected to complete numerous courses such as AJOSQ, ATOC, OPME's (hopefully), possibly a STA TC course if so employed and a whole slew of "other" courses such as the Casualty Assisting Officer course.

Throw in a deployment for good measure and you have a very busy, but enjoyable,  time for a junior officer at their first Regimental employment.

 

[GnyHwy]

I can't speak for how this works in the Reserves but in the Reg Force field regiments there is no way you will get a FOO position for 3-4 years. The average now is more like 6 months to a year before doing a BK job or being sent off to a RSS position, recruiting center, IG (Instructor in Gunnery) course, Tech Staff or some other random staff job.

They should be finishing the FOO course with about 2-3 years in the Regiment with most being closer to 3 years. After the FOO course if you are employed as a FOO or FOO/FAC, expect to be there about a year. 

I am not doubting your observations of 6 months to a year, and I am quite certain you are no doubt correct, but really? 

6 months is barely enough time to take a good crap; let alone proper work up training or an actual tour.  I wonder if that is the direct result of trying to get every Arty O the FOO Course and the tick in the box of being a FOO.  The last I heard or seen was a large back log of Subbies and Jnr Capts awaiting the FOO crse, and if all Arty Os shall do the FOO crse, the end result would be that you won't get enough time to learn the job before the next guy comes along.

The madness will no doubt have to cool eventually and the bottleneck close, which would bring us back to the longer stays as a FOO that I have witnessed.  Granted 3-4 years as a FOO is a bit extreme, but not impossible and it wouldn't surprise me if it happens again in the next 10 years.

 

[jeffb]

The 1 year figure was more for guys who are not going to be deploying as a FOO but I suspect you are correct about your predictions for the future. By way of illustrating the bottleneck right now, the last FOO course ended a few weeks ago and another FOO course is starting up in Jan. That means that the guys who just got off the FOO course will be "senior" guys 4 months from now once the Jan course graduates and the current senior FOO's are posted out on IG courses, RSS positions, etc.

 

[rampage800]

Yea to reiterate what Jeffb said unfortunately the amount of time officers are receiving in the FOO role is very minimal just due to the backlog of junior officers right now. The piece that I believe will come back to haunt the Regiments in about 5-7 years is when some of those FOO's come back in as BC's to the Regiments but have minimal actual experience with the GFC's.

 

[jeffb]

Rampage, good point but there will be some of us junior officers who get at least some more exposure to FOOing at the school or at RSS positions I should think in that first ERE.

 

[Ralph]

Jeff - exposure, yes, but unless you're posted to W Bty as a FOO, you're on the IG course and upon completion will be teaching on the FOO course. RSS is the same - you are the SME/mentor for the PRes and are expected to train them.

 

[Petard]

Truth of the matter is the opportunities to even train OP parties are getting fewer and harder to come by, especially as Reg F Jnr O in a P res unit
Given the state of the C3, and ammo limits lately for P Res, it'll actually be rare you'll do any "FOOing" live. If you happen to be one of the units stuck with an old Phoenix system you might not even see much (any) time in the simulator either
None of the postings to Reserve units are to be a FOO, typically it is to be the RCPO/OPs O/Adjt, although on some occasions you might end up having to fill in the spot simply because of low turn out on an FTX.

 

[jeffb]

That is disappointing Petard. I knew that RSS didn't involve being a FOO necessarily but I had understood that RSS officers found themselves in the FOO role on Ex's from time to time.

 

[Petard]

Jeffb, a Reg F Capt with P res will still be at the OP, sometime, but genrally it is rare for them to be the actual FOO
But 200 HE for the year doesn't go far, so best to focus on getting the Reserve pers trained on shooting it

Linking back to the original question, the Reg F staff with a P Res unit spends a great deal of time ensuring the unit meets the Individual Battle Task Standards. I'm not sure if the original poster is familiar with what IBTS means, so, IBTS involves mostly basic soldering skills, such as: personal and crew served weapon refresher, search & security drills/procedures, mine/IED awareness, etc. So Artillery units do spend a lot of time on basic soldering skills.

Maintaining Artillery skill sets are important, but typically in any of the Reserve CBG the priority is to achieve a high % of IBTS 

 

[Old Sweat]

Petard

How does 200 HE shape up against previous years allocation? I also assume there is an area pool and a separate pot for the schools run during the summer. Still, it is better than nothing and given the number of training weekeds a regiment spends on the ranges, a fair amount could be achieved.

It would be nice to have more, but I remember as a teenage CP and Recce Tech in a regular regiment doing day after day after day of dry fire and movement because we didn't have the bullets for live firing. Even as a subaltern in my early twenties, we were still short of ammunition. It was not until the late sixties and early seventies that we began to get a decent amount of ammunition for training. Where it would hurt was in the training of the FOO and BC parties, especially in fire planning. The old puff range could only do so much. Is there an OP simulator available to a militia regiment in its home station or at Petawawa or Meaford?

 

[Petard]

Petard

How does 200 HE shape up against previous years allocation?...Is there an OP simulator available to a militia regiment in its home station or at Petawawa or Meaford?

DDAT gave a good overview of the Army's "grapeshot" to AAB this past fall, the presentation can be seen at
www.artillery.net/beta/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/DDAT-Ammo-Brief-to-AAB-Final.pdf)
I know on the individual unit basis the numbers have been getting smaller each year. The gist of that presentation, to me, indicates the new capabilities coming on line (CCV and TAPV) will not come with additional funds for the NP ammunition budget. So, I expect 105mm How ammunition will become even more limited as those new veh types reach FOC

Reserve units are not served very well WRT simulators. Half of the units have an old system called Phoenix, which is no longer supportable; if it breaks it stays broke. Many are broken. The other half have a system simply called the IFT (Indirect Fire Trainer) within their lines, and there are additional IFTs at the training centres (Meaford doesn't have theirs anymore, but it's a long story why). The IFT is arguably very obsolete and does not support training with any basic tools available to the FOO today (Vector 21 or GPS for example). Understandably both have very crude graphics compared to today's computer games, and consequently they can do little to teach the terminal effects of different ammunition types either

Recently the Reg F took delivery of a more up to date simulator IFFS (Fidelity Tech's Call for Fire Trainer), but most P Res units do not typically have access to them.

 

[Old Sweat]

Thanks. It is an interesting presentation.

 

[CSouth]

Hello,

I'm currently undergoing the application process for ROTP.  My interview is approaching, and I was instructed to study up on the roles and responsibilities of my chosen military specialties (Armour and Artillery).  Are there any resources I should be looking at in preparation for this?  Also, any general interview tips would be helpful, such as key things a recruiter will be looking to hear, in order to achieve the best interview I can.

Thank you.

 

[The Travel Is There]

Forces.ca

As a perspective officer I would expect that you would be able to figure that out on your own though.

 

[Journeyman]

As a perspective officer I would expect that you would be able to figure that out on your own though.

That's one point of view.   

 

[CSouth]

Forces.ca

As a perspective officer I would expect that you would be able to figure that out on your own though.

Thank you for the quick response, and yes, I figured that one out on my own.  I was looking more for input from officers in these divisions, with first hand experiences in these fields.  Something that wasn't written as a recruitment tool, with a little more... grit?

 

[ward0043]

This site is really big on using the search function to avoid useless threads like this. I'll show you just one of the threads on this site that you can use to begin your research:


Army.ca Forums » Army.ca » The Combat Arms » Armour » Topic:  Life as an Armoured Officer

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/100260.0.html

 

[matthew1786]

Forces.ca

As a perspective officer I would expect that you would be able to figure that out on your own though.

I could swear that I've seen this very same mistake in another thread somwhere in almost the exact same context.  ;D

 

[PMedMoe]

I could swear that I've seen this very same mistake in another thread somwhere in almost the exact same context.  ;D

User name perhaps?  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/101102/post-1123816.html#msg1123816

Edit to correct spelling.