Army.ca Ideology -- what is it?

[Gunnar]

Think of it this way...this is a soldier's mess that allows civvies inside.   The rules are essentially those with which the soldiers feel comfortable, and designed to keep it as a soldier's mess that allows civvies inside.   It is not permitted to morph into a public bar with soldiers in it.   These soldiers are letting you drink with them, and inasmuch as they feel you deserve it, they'll occasionally buy a round and let you do the same.

Think of it as the military embassy to the rest of the world.   Just because you're allowed in the embassy doesn't mean you get to tell the ambassadors how to do things, nor do you get to sit in their chairs.

And yes...sometimes they're just plain too hard on people.   Military professionals or not, they get tired, get drunk, get fed up just like the rest of us...and this is their bar, and we're just friendlies asking wide-eyed questions about what it's like to be a soldier.   I'm not always sure that I always agree with moderator decisions either...but I have noticed something:   They are pretty consistent on what they will or won't allow.   This means that even if the rules are not popular with some, they are clear and understandable, and once you've read a few threads and seen a few "acts of moderation" you should be able to figure out where the boundaries lie.

To try to let you see the big picture...say you meet someone, invite them back to your place for a few beers...you talk about your shared interest in cars and chicks...and then the guy goes on and on about your taste in furniture and how it's arranged, and how he wouldn't arrange his furniture that way, and you obviously don't know anything about cars and chicks because just one look at your furniture and you can tell that.....you'd think that this guy was a complete doofus, and you wouldn't invite him back.

Soldiers operate on certain shared principles that they expect to be in place...they've become men (and women, but I mean it in the sense of 'becoming a man' - autonomous, responsible, thinking person) by accepting responsibility for their actions, having good reasons for what they do, and not pretending to have more experience than they actually have...because failure to do any of these things in a theatre of combat gets people killed.   When someone comes into this 'soldiers mess' and makes statements, their comments are given all the respect they would get if the comment came from another soldier (or someone who 'gets it')....until it's obvious they're operating outside of these principles.   Then, because it's a public web-site, they take escalating corrective measures until they can weed out those who are switched on from those who aren't.

So take your warning in the spirit it was intended...just a friendly hand on the shoulder from someone of more experience.   This seems to be what you're doing anyway....carry on...

(modified to add---actually, it appears I've answered the original question...the ideology is autonomy, responsibility and considered action...not pretending to me more than you are...intellectual honesty....)

 

[Springroll]

Just refer everyone to
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html

 

[muskrat89]

Wow - excellent post, Gunnar

 

[Gunnar]

Thank you.  I learned some of that from you giving ME hell.

Apparently, I can be taught.  Who knew?

 

[kilekaldar]

This seems to be mostly a civvy vs military(serving or retired) thing, which I can understand.
As a a fairly new Pte. I still recall the culture shock of being told in Basic that 'respect' was not freely given, it had to be earned over time and hard work. I believe that this is the issue here, military folk tend to want people to prove themselves worthy of trust and respect, while civilians want it all instantly because they think it's their right.
Well, this site is called "Army.ca", it's run in a military manner, so my advice to the complainers is to suck it up and deal. Like a soldier would.

 

[canadianblue]

I've been ripped into by the staff over a comment were I referenced guns I used on Rainbow Six in a discussion and I don't care. The reason why is because they showed me how much of an idiot I was, and I won't do it ever again. So the staff are here to straighten people out as well, I am currently on a LE website, blueline.ca, have been a member for about a year and a half and were having huge problems now. Primarily because theirs more then our fair share of childish name calling and cheapshots going around on pretty well every topic, and more then a few members are considering leaving because of it. On here we have alot more serious members about what they want to do.

I am currently a civilian simply enrolled to become a Signal Operator in the Regular Force. Just for the record I am happy with the job the directing staff do on this board, and to keep it up.

 

[kilekaldar]

Nice to see a new Sig coming in, we're so shortstaffed it's crazy. Welcome to the new Army.

Valor, Speed, Vigilance.

 

[patrick666]

Think of the moderators (or people with superior rank and significant experience) as your instructors and what would happen if you acted that way towards them? Exactly the same thing. Personally, I've learned a lot from many people here simply by lurking and reading post after post. When I feel I have something worthwhile to contribute to the debate then I will say it. If I want to talk outta my a$$ then I'll fart.

Also, if you are planning on a career in the forces and are having trouble handling some internet discipline think of what it's going to be like when you're in basic, 3inches away from the instructor yelling in your face.. I'd say you have it easy here...

Kudos to the staff for maintaining a professional forum for intelligent debate.

Cheers

 

[paracowboy]

the ideology? Something like this: When a man is down, kick him in the teeth and give him a reason to stand up.

Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day.
Teach him to fish, you feed him for life.
Give a man a fire, you warm him for a night.
Set him on fire, he's warm for the rest of his life.

:

 

[Kat Stevens]

Ah, para...heart of a killer, soul of a poet  ;D....always a pleasure...

Kat

 

[the 48th regulator]

Strongchristian,

I believe Springroll and Manimal have demonstrated why we are the way we are here, at army.ca

Springroll

Not everyone is giving everyone else the respect that is deserved!!

Respect is earned, not deserved....

dileas

tess

 

[Springroll]

There is a level of respect that every human on this earth deserves.

I agree that respect is earned in most cases.

 

[Britney Spears]

Well, I'm here on a personal jihad to convert you all into intelligent, reasonable,  Bush hating, Gay marriage loving, Iraq war protesting liberal vegetarians.


Just sayin', is all...... Hope I'm not out of my lane or anything.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Well, I'm here on a personal jihad to convert you all into intelligent, reasonable,   Bush hating, Gay marriage loving, Iraq war protesting liberal vegetarians.


Just sayin', is all...... Hope I'm not out of my lane or anything.

No disrespect or nuthin' but you forgot "enviromentally friendly"...

 

[muskrat89]

Well, I'm here on a personal jihad to convert you all into intelligent, reasonable,  Bush hating, Gay marriage loving, Iraq war protesting liberal vegetarians.

We noticed..

 

[big_johnson1]

Strongchristian,

I believe Springroll and Manimal have demonstrated why we are the way we are here, at army.ca

tess

Maybe I'm stirring the pot here but what happened to the guidelines?  ;D

Quoted from the guidelines:

Expectation of Respect between Users

All visitors, regardless of age, rank or experience are to be treated as equal unless their conduct dictates otherwise. That means the veteran servicemember and the green private are to assume that they have as much to benefit from the other as they have to offer the other until a reason to contrary is made known. Age, nor number of years excuses anyone from behaving in a manner that isn't civil and polite.

And yes, I didn't forget the part that said to respect the moderators, just pointing out the part that deals with treating everyone as equal.

 

[strongchristian]

Some really good replies here. I see that my question has been answered, from the site owner no less, so I appreciate that. I could have PM'd but that wasn't my goal; I wanted to bring up a discussion that anyone could partake in. I am all for the rules being enforced, I just think it is important this line is not overstepped, so that we are not censoring out things we just don't want to hear. I understand the challenge in striking a balance.

I think its useful to discuss the goal of a site like this, especially when it is as big as it is. It is not affiliated with the DND, but the fact is that a lot of potential recruits will come here first seeking information when they are thinking about joining. It is undoubtably a factor in the decision-making process of potential recruits. To them the lines will be blurred between official and unofficial. As well they should, you have lots of high-ranking people here, that use their names no less, weighing in on their posts (and hopefully not telling them to shut their trap). I don't think this site is a near being a bully-fest, but it is something to keep in mind as to what not to be.

 

[Sig_Des]

Maybe I'm stirring the pot here but what happened to the guidelines?   ;D

Quoted from the guidelines:

Expectation of Respect between Users

All visitors, regardless of age, rank or experience are to be treated as equal unless their conduct dictates otherwise. That means the veteran servicemember and the green private are to assume that they have as much to benefit from the other as they have to offer the other until a reason to contrary is made known. Age, nor number of years excuses anyone from behaving in a manner that isn't civil and polite.

And yes, I didn't forget the part that said to respect the moderators, just pointing out the part that deals with treating everyone as equal.

Feral,

keep in mind, you have to look over all the posts in past...if people are continuiously trying to get in the last word, or justify comments that are either not accurate or just plain wrong, you start losing face.

If you look at people who have been posting on this site for a long time, you will see a difference in early posts to more recent. I know personally, I joined this site as a much younger civillian, and now as a (still somewhat young) member of the military, I see differences in posts myself.

I think the moderators do an excellent job of weeding out the problems, and as previously mentioned, they are consistent. You will also find that it has occured where an DS has maybe snapped at someone, but will also find an apology or an explanation for its occurence..

also, extremely well put in your post, Gunnar

 

[a_majoor]

I know this is a private owned forum, but you have to take responsibility for those that you have join and how they treat the other members on here, regardless of CF experience or not.

That sums up the ideology most members and posters on Army.ca are against. You are responsible for your own conduct, reading and following the rules, and making sure your posts are sensible and of interest to other members. Just as rude and disruptive behavior is frowned upon in public and private places in the real world, it is also frowned upon here, and you can and will be "escorted off the premises" by some burly bouncers or the owner if you do not choose to take responsibility for your actions.

 

[Slim]

The world we live in, specifically outside the CF, is not the same place it was 10 years ago.

Personal responsability has somehow been lost along the wayside.

Allot of people, when they join the CF, are rudely awakened by a demand of personal behaviour and accountability that they are not (at first) able to provide, and so must be "taught" it by basic training and then further training, which changes your conduct and thought process from "mememe" to "teamteamteam."

This website is allot like the CF in that we (the owner and mods) DEMAND a measure of personal accountability when a member posts here. Its demanded from everyone and don't think for a moment that mods are exempt...We just don't do it in the open where the masses can see it.

The short version - You are responsible to post correctly, properly, not to provide bad info and not to stray out of your lane. Filling out one's profile is also a key step to being successful here.

If you follow the rules and listen when "guided" by those more senior then all will be well.

If, on occasion, you have to be "nudged" back into your lane by a mod then take the criticism and learn from it.

Slim