Allowances - Post Living Differential (PLD) [MERGED]

[Stoker]

@Griffon Great post, agree. Also, feel bad for BGen Tatersall (DGCB) who had to be the public face of that particular shit sandwich (which is apparently being called PAYCUTFORGEN). It's not like they were the ones that created the policy, just were the ones in the job when it came down from upon high, so are being quoted in the news.

Having said that, wished the RCN would take the same line with life safety orders and follow CAF direction and just remind people they need to be clean shaven. Lot of folks with big ass beards and goatees so no way they are all excused from duty watches or fire fighting. If they can follow unpopular orders on money they can stop trying to be popular by ignoring CAF orders from the CDS.

The clean shaven RRP requirement came out again recently at the latest Coxn's meeting in Halifax. I've been complaining about it since the new dress regs came out to Sea Training etc and the differences between ship to ship to no avail as no one wanted to touch it. It seems now the consensus is that if you have a goatee or side burns it can't interfere with the seal of the mask and the goatees can't interfere with the inner cup of the mask. I know its supposed to be clean shaven but that's where we're at.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I wish someone who has better Excel skills (and time) than I would make a spreadsheet comparing the gain/loss from HD vs PLD, by rank/spec. Have each Excel sheet be a rank, and list by location like below (amounts made up):

Cpl Basic

Edmonton -200
Esquimalt + 200
NCR + 500

Make it colour-coded so it's really easy to see how many ranks/specs get more or less. There will be a lot of "neutral" because folks either have too high of a salary, or the place never had PLD and don't have HD.

And if someone does it, add a column or two for “RHU/on economy”…

 

[Navy_Pete]

The clean shaven RRP requirement came out again recently at the latest Coxn's meeting in Halifax. I've been complaining about it since the new dress regs came out to Sea Training etc and the differences between ship to ship to no avail as no one wanted to touch it. It seems now the consensus is that if you have a goatee or side burns it can't interfere with the seal of the mask and the goatees can't interfere with the inner cup of the mask. I know its supposed to be clean shaven but that's where we're at.

Sorry for the off topic bit.

Should be a tech advisory coming out soon from the LCMM shop reminding people of the RPP requirement, just going through the final 'stakeholder' review. A lot of ships have very little understanding of the RPP, but the safety bit is pretty clear, as is the wording ('you shall be clean shaven on the sealing area'). It's a legal order, based on CSA, NFPA and other safety standards, so really isn't optional and boggles my mind we need to 'ask' people to follow orders from the CDS.

If RCN wants an exemption, they need to go to the MND, not just ignore it and hope for the best.

 

[dapaterson]

If RCN wants an exemption, they need to go to the MND, not just ignore it and hope for the best.

But tradition!

 

[Stoker]

Sorry for the off topic bit.

Should be a tech advisory coming out soon from the LCMM shop reminding people of the RPP requirement, just going through the final 'stakeholder' review. A lot of ships have very little understanding of the RPP, but the safety bit is pretty clear, as is the wording ('you shall be clean shaven on the sealing area'). It's a legal order, based on CSA, NFPA and other safety standards, so really isn't optional and boggles my mind we need to 'ask' people to follow orders from the CDS.

If RCN wants an exemption, they need to go to the MND, not just ignore it and hope for the best.

That's great news even our EO was reluctant in enforcing it, as the DCO and former STA I know better. It's literally the wild west down here in regards to this topic and no one wants to be that person.

 

[dimsum]

And if someone does it, add a column or two for “RHU/on economy”…

A column could be what 25% of salary is per rank/spec.

My point was to quickly show who is gaining (in green, for example) and who is losing (in red) with how much.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

A column could be what 25% of salary is per rank/spec.

My point was to quickly show who is gaining (in green, for example) and who is losing (in red) with how much.

No argument in “quick vie stats” value; to do that, wouldn’t it need to include the “living in RHUs” to the losing side? So as long as it’s captured in a “if/then” data field, it would increase the “quick view” validity.

 

[1tech]

Serving for over 29 years. Lost of PLD and the new rules will give me a pay increase of $0.25 /hour...
Next cut, sea duty allowance and field pay. Be ready!

 

[dapaterson]

PLD is (soon to be was) an allowance, not pay.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Replace pay with “disposable income”?

 

[Stoker]

I could probably deal with the PLD going away for me as I paid off my home although wasn't expecting the benefit to go from a cost of living thing including housing to a strictly a housing benefit. Unfortunately for me I'm a spec 1 sailor and thus the cost of living increase doesn't go as far for me. Sorry for being selfish here. Based on this train wreck I can just imagine how the SDA/LDA review will go in the hopefully distant future.

 

[dimsum]

Based on this train wreck I can just imagine how the SDA/LDA review will go in the hopefully distant future.

I'm guessing AIRCRA would be part of that too.

 

[Lumber]

I wish someone who has better Excel skills (and time) than I would make a spreadsheet comparing the gain/loss from HD vs PLD, by rank/spec. Have each Excel sheet be a rank, and list by location like below (amounts made up):

Cpl Basic

Edmonton -200
Esquimalt + 200
NCR + 500

Make it colour-coded so it's really easy to see how many ranks/specs get more or less. There will be a lot of "neutral" because folks either have too high of a salary, or the place never had PLD and don't have HD.

Ok, I made up a spreadsheet, and oh what a nightmare it was. But, I've got all the data in there and all the equations worked out. I'm 90% sure my numbers are correct but I made a few assumptions and it's late so please correct me where I'm wrong if you see it! I picked three cities from a Navy perspective, and here you go. If you want other cities let me know.

The tables show the difference in monthly gross salary between the April 1st 2023 pay scales and the April 1st 2022 pay scales. The top row is someone who is currently living in PMQs, meaning they will get the EI, lose PLD and get no CFHD, and the bottom row is those who will get EI, lose PLD, and receive CFHD based on their Pay Level. The colour coding is based on zero being yellow.

 

[Navy_Pete]

@Lumber Is that with the pay increases? I think the last one kicks in in 2024, so in July we'll get a retroactive pay for the previous few years but the last adjustment will happen after the PLD/CFHD transition.

Either way that's crazy, but I have to assume someone ran all those numbers when they looked at this proposal so the BGHs are fully aware. Happy for some of my team who will get a bit of help but holy crap that's insane for the coasts.

Edit to add: meant all the pay increases, vice the pay check in July/August when this kicks in prior to the last 3ish%. adjustment.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Maybe we can post the entire RCN to Ottawa and det them to a coast when they need to sail…

 

[Lumber]

@Lumber Is that with the pay increases? I think the last one kicks in in 2024, so in July we'll get a retroactive pay for the previous few years but the last adjustment will happen after the PLD/CFHD transition.

Either way that's crazy, but I have to assume someone ran all those numbers when they looked at this proposal so the BGHs are fully aware. Happy for some of my team who will get a bit of help but holy crap that's insane for the coasts.

Edit to add: meant all the pay increases, vice the pay check in July/August when this kicks in prior to the last 3ish%. adjustment.

I'm assuming that the "Effective April 1st 2023" pay rates incorporate all of the retroactive pay increases up to now, so basically all of them except the 2024 pay increase and I'm assuming that the "Effective April 1st 2022" pay rates on the site (which provides my baseline) does not include any of the pay increases. The file called "historic pay rates" which goes back to the 90s seems to match these assumptions, but I could be wrong.

 

[Quirky]

Ok, I made up a spreadsheet, and oh what a nightmare it was. But, I've got all the data in there and all the equations worked out. I'm 90% sure my numbers are correct but I made a few assumptions and it's late so please correct me where I'm wrong if you see it! I picked three cities from a Navy perspective, and here you go. If you want other cities let me know.

The tables show the difference in monthly gross salary between the April 1st 2023 pay scales and the April 1st 2022 pay scales. The top row is someone who is currently living in PMQs, meaning they will get the EI, lose PLD and get no CFHD, and the bottom row is those who will get EI, lose PLD, and receive CFHD based on their Pay Level. The colour coding is based on zero being yellow.

View attachment 76969

 

[brihard]

My sister is fed PS. She said at a recent family event that basically, most of her co-workers feel strike pay is too little and some would cross the line cause “they have bills to pay”. Words to that effect.

I also heard CRA is asking for 30%. Wow.

Ok, I made up a spreadsheet, and oh what a nightmare it was. But, I've got all the data in there and all the equations worked out. I'm 90% sure my numbers are correct but I made a few assumptions and it's late so please correct me where I'm wrong if you see it! I picked three cities from a Navy perspective, and here you go. If you want other cities let me know.

The tables show the difference in monthly gross salary between the April 1st 2023 pay scales and the April 1st 2022 pay scales. The top row is someone who is currently living in PMQs, meaning they will get the EI, lose PLD and get no CFHD, and the bottom row is those who will get EI, lose PLD, and receive CFHD based on their Pay Level. The colour coding is based on zero being yellow.

View attachment 76969

Nice work! Got Edmonton in there?

 

[ballz]

Nice work! Got Edmonton in there?

Nvm, I'm wrong.

Since I'm in here now, I'll add something.

The whole idea of getting extra money for housing makes no sense to me. I can't imagine asking my employer for a raise because I don't have a nice house / nicer apartment. The market determines what I'm getting paid for the position I'm in, not what my bills are. Imagine me going to my firm as a staff accountant and instead of them saying "even though you're a staff accountant, we recognize you already have your designation and a ton of other experience than none of these 22-23 year olds have, so we're going to offer you a premium because those are things your staff accountant peers don't have" they said "since you're 32 and already own a house, we're going to offer you the market rate minus a housing differential because all of your peers still live with their parents.

PLD became a shit system because they didn't update it when the market changed, but it answered the problem of labour market rates being different across the country in a more logical way than a "housing differential" in that it effected everyone equally when they entered into a new labour market (new region) the same. I suppose over time the "housing differential" will truly only serve to increase the compensation level for the vast majority of the CAF who are the lower ends of the pay scales - whereas those on the higher end of the payscales are already more pot-committed to staying in the CAF - so I dunno, maybe it'll have a positive effect.

 

[Good2Golf]

Maybe we can post the entire RCN to Ottawa and det them to a coast when they need to sail…