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[Nudibranch]

Civilian 9 to 5 thinking.....Common in the Air Force, but not in other Military Elements.

Well, the civies generally stay til 4 or 5 or whatever their schedule says.

I've been hard-pressed to find people past 3, on Fridays past 2 or so, and this is on large army bases like Edmonton or Gagetown. Obviously not while ramping up for deployment. People go off on, cough, "individual PT" around that time 

 

[George Wallace]

Well, the civies generally stay til 4 or 5 or whatever their schedule says.

I've been hard-pressed to find people past 3, on Fridays past 2 or so, and this is on large army bases like Edmonton or Gagetown. Obviously not while ramping up for deployment. People go off on, cough, "individual PT" around that time 

;D

I always found that many waited until 1430 hrs Fridays to try to get their problems solved/bookings made/etc.  Then there were the 1600 hrs Friday 'O' Gps. 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

In peacetime, if you are not needed operationally, why shortchange our people?  There is actually a blurb about this in the Leave Manual.

What if someone works 1 saturday a couple times a quarter.  Should he not be compensated?

From the leave manual:

Chapter 9 – Short Leave

Section 9.1 Short Leave

9.1.01 Policy

The purpose of short leave is to provide a member of the Regular Force or of the Reserve Force on Class B or C reserve service with time away from their duties to:
•Compensate, in part, for long hours worked during extended periods of operations/training or working on normal days of rest;

 

[MAJONES]

George,

My apologies.  I didn't realize when you said the Air Force had a "different work ethic" you meant that we work harder and smarter than the Army.  I apologize for misreading your post, and thank you most genuinely for the compliment.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Civilian 9 to 5 thinking.....Common in the Air Force, but not in other Military Elements.

This is a myth; our Sqn has 5 air crews and 2 ground crews [1st line techs] and I assure you there isn't a 9-5 mindset or reality.  I bet there are a few 'wishful thinkings' though.  The folks in Sqn Ops, the SOR, etc also work hours required to keep things moving.  I've had take off times that range from late at night/middle of the night/weekends/very early morning/mid afternoon, you name it.  When we launch, it's not like we just show up, crank up and go bombing down the runway:

- We brief first.  That involves Met Techs, Int, Wg Ops, etc.  They are at work to prep all that before we show up.
- the ground crew are doing their checks, snags, etc.  They are also our Start crew, so after checks are complete,  they aren't quite done yet.
- Wing Replenishment types are delivering fuel.
- Flight Feeding folks are prepping our meals, coffee etc and deliver it from the Mess to our airstair, before engines on.
- the ATC folks are at their stations, controlling ground/air traffic.
- Fire Services types are doing their thing.
- in the Winter, SNIC is hard at it keeping the runway(s) clear for our departure/return.
- WTISS and WLEO are keeping all the infrastructure and airfield serviceable. 


The ground crews are there when we land, parking us after the ATC folks have done their thing.  If the ramp is full of ice and snow, a driver is usually there to carry us and all our kit back to Wing Ops.  Someone from Ops is there to sign kit back in, at times de-brief/do other EOM activities that might need to be done.  Tech's are starting to action anything that wasn't working right, or get the plane ready for the next event. 

All of these people, and our, 'timings' are anything but 9-5.  We also have a standby crew on call, 24/7 - 365 days a year.  That means all those folks who support us also have people on standby 24/7 - 365.

The SAR Sqn is likely something similar, and all of the support types I've mentioned are also working to keep those folks ready for a launch.  Life on the Ops side of the Wing isn't the way a lot of people seem to think it is. 

The 8-4 life may exist on the Admin side of the Wing, but that's the benefit of doing that type of job.  But, the clerk at the WOR also isn't getting spec pay and aircrew allowance, or going to (sometimes) nice places on away trips. 

Bit of a de-rail I know, but I wanted to help clear up the myth/perception about life for those of us on Sqn, and all the folks who make it that we can fly the mission.  A lot of folks in green may have enjoyed a "long weekend" for Canada Day, taking Monday off/short day/"min manning"/etc.  At 0500 that Monday morning I [and the rest of my Crew] was driving home after getting back from a mission that started mid-day Sunday.  All of the trades I mentioned were also working too.

There's always something to do, something going on and it takes lots of folks to make stuff like this happen:  https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152124974231237&set=a.10150142814416237.282538.61263506236&type=1&fref=nf

The biggest "9-5" attitude I've seen was during my time at a CBGHQ, except it was more of an *8-3* one.  Or, 8-2ish on a Friday or during the summer.

:2c:

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Are you in the Canadian ARMED Forces or not?

If the quote/passage is from the CF Leave Manual, what is wrong with it?  If you don't like it or agree with it, that's fine but it is official CF policy, approved by the Chief of Military Personnel, which applies to all members of the CF, as stated in the Preface.

It's all in black and white  http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-benefits/leave-policy.page#chap1

 

[Fishbone Jones]

So, you have no firsthand knowledge, but you feel compelled to comment anyways.

I am a friend of George. Remustered to AF from Armour. I have first hand knowledge.

From what I saw and experienced, George is bang on.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Thread split on the "army/AF work & play" topic?

 

[PMedMoe]

Thread split on the "army/AF work & play" topic?

Agreed.  :nod:

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Really not worth it. It'll just turn into a pissing match.


Let's just get back on topic.

 

[George Wallace]

Really not worth it. It'll just turn into a pissing match.


Let's just get back on topic.

I think all the points have been covered several times, and the applicable Regs posted as well.  We are kinda flogging a dead horse.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I think all the points have been covered several times, and the applicable Regs posted as well.  We are kinda flogging a dead horse.

Don't identify a problem without offering a solution

 

[Haggis]

Don't identify a problem without offering a solution

Then form a working group to determine the true status of the horse.

 

[OldSolduer]

Somehow or another this got derailed.

Play nice y'all.......

IMO the Adjt should have forwarded this memo to the CO - as it was addressed to the CO.....therefore it s the COs decision.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

IMO the Adjt should have forwarded this memo to the CO - as it was addressed to the CO.....therefore it s the COs decision.

Hence my suggestion to ask for a one on one with the CO. Then the OP can register his complaint in person and ask for clarification, from the CO, how his memo was stymied.

CO's are obligated to meet with a member on request.

 

[Shamrock]

Somehow or another this got derailed.

Play nice y'all.......

IMO the Adjt should have forwarded this memo to the CO - as it was addressed to the CO.....therefore it s the COs decision.

I again disagree.  The Adjt was likely delegated the authority to address these requests; it's a fairly common function.  COs routinely devolve authority to address requests and administration on his or her behalf. 

 

[Old EO Tech]

I again disagree.  The Adjt was likely delegated the authority to address these requests; it's a fairly common function.  COs routinely devolve authority to address requests and administration on his or her behalf.

That may be, but if a member doesn't like the Adj's response, he still has every right to see his CO.  That can not be delegated.

 

[Shamrock]

True, as well as the right to grieve.

 

[Good2Golf]

I again disagree.  The Adjt was likely delegated the authority to address these requests; it's a fairly common function.  COs routinely devolve authority to address requests and administration on his or her behalf.

I think you will find most COs won't go overboard on delegation when it comes to issues dealing with their troops, in particular that of administration, particularly for things such as short leave, compassionate leave, contingency cost moves, compassionate postings, responses to notifications to grieve, etc...

Out of all of this, the principal issue I have with the OP's situation is that unit staff were withholding a member's memo from getting to the CO.  To be clear, that is wrong, no 'ifs', 'ands', or 'buts.'


Regards
G2G

 

[OldSolduer]

Just to add, often MWOs will ask " did you see (name here) memo for leave?" to the RSM.

Hint - RSM does not like being ambushed with questions
like this.

Forward the memo.