All Memo Templates: (AVOTP, ED&T, File Number, OJT, OT, Release, Retention)

[Drag]

From Oxford dictionnary: Equivalent: Equal in value, amount, function, meaning, etc.

I am not advocating giving blindly days off, but in most cases, where there is no operationnal necessity, people should be compensated, as per the Leave Policy Manual.

Not giving a day off for no good reason other than: "You are in the Canadian Armed Forces, suck it up" is not the best way to keep morale up...

+1

Especially when your people are capable of leaving the service and making as much, or in many cases more than they are making now.  Every unit I ever worked in we compensated our people for working overtime.  While working an extra hour here or there would not give you a day off, working a full day on a holiday or a weekend would.

 

[Good2Golf]

...Now, if the whole unit works on a weekend, that's a different story.  During those, COs, more often than not, will give a short day.

And what if individuals or the unit work more than two weekend days in a month?  No what does "Mr. Leave Manual" do?

 

[SupersonicMax]

When you're a CO, let me know how the 'Oxford Approach' works for you.  If you don't get what I was saying, then you are either being obstinate or truly don't have a clue.

Keep in mind that giving time off to each individual who thinks they're entitled to it because they did something more than a straight 37.5-hour work week can be as equally demoralizing to the others less bound to punching a clock, and more attuned to working as a whole to help their unit achieve what it has been tasked.


Regards
G2G

It should be left to the supervisors to manage such things, with guidance from the CO. 

I am not saying to give a full day off to some dude that came in for 30mins to fix something, but if someone worked his full week + a full weekend day, what's the harm of giving him a day off if he feels he needs it. 

I have had COs that mandated time off to compensate for working on week ends/stat holidays and others that gave the option.

As a supervisor, I encourage people to take them with the caveat that op requirements may trump.

There are directives for people to take all annual leave every year so they can spend time with their families or relax away from work.  Yet, we prevent people from being fairly compensated for work above and beyond what is normally required?

The "shift worker" piece falls under weekends.  Leave passes are for "weekend" even if the off day is on a Tuesday. 

For short days, those are at the discretion of the CO and I said "more often than not" not "always".  If it puts a member beyond 2 days of short, too bad.  No leave for him.

 

[Jay4th]

Just because the 70's and 80's weren't kind to our members does not mean we should continue to treat people like crap for tradition's sake.
If we, like any smart employer, wish to keep good people around then we need to treat them well.  That means appropriate compensation.  I am continually shocked by the number of my peers that haven't read or don't care to read the Leave Policy Manual, and are then surprised when they receive a leave pass with the "shift worker" box ticked, and a tues-wed requested as "weekend".  If  a soldier works through the weekend regularly, then his weekend days are obviously through the week.  Or do we just expect our people to work 24/7 as we see fit?  Our people have the right to expect that they will be employed wisely and compensated appropriately.  Short leave is not the appropriate way to compensate for weekends.  Weekend leave on the next available days is.

 

[Mediman14]

I often see memo's stop short before reaching the CO. It's alright to put minutes on it, but the final say should come from the CO, despite what anyone thinks. The unit I am currently in is famous for stopping memo's and then lie about it, especially in a medical unit.  It seems to be a common theme here!

 

[upandatom]

More often then not, yes memos are being stopped before the CO,

The thing is, They can play the format game for weeks with you. I have seen that before. If it is addressed to the CO, it must go to the CO. In that case though, if an ADJT suggests rejected a request for whatever reason, I am fairly certain they will put it infront of the CO saying I disagree with this request for this reason, he will brief why and usually end of story.

The ADJT job is to filter the BS from the CO, prioritize the information being put in front of him, and give him the Coles Notes on the situations, an analyst persay.

I feel as if there are some surrounding circumstances like you called in sick a couple days last month or the leave plan already states you get two days for summer block/summer leave. 

 

[kev994]

And what if individuals or the unit work more than two weekend days in a month?  No what does "Mr. Leave Manual" do?

That's moving toward shift worker. Equivalent time off is 9.67 days per month, on average. I frequently work multiple weekends in a month, I take my 'weekend' days during the week. In the past they were "shift days off" on a leave pass but are now annotated as "weekend" and there is a check box for shift worker so we can take a Wednesday as a "weekend" or more than 2 "weekend" days in a week.

 

[MAJONES]

+1

Especially when your people are capable of leaving the service and making as much, or in many cases more than they are making now. 

Bingo!  I can't speak for what things are like in the other branches, but keeping the tech positions, (AVN, AVS, ACS), filled in the RCAF is a real challenge.  I am canceling missions because I have no airplanes, I have no airplanes because I have no techs to fix them.  Valuable people will only tolerate a finite amout of BS.  Breach that threshold and they will pull the pin.

 

[George Wallace]

Bingo!  I can't speak for what things are like in the other branches, but keeping the tech positions, (AVN, AVS, ACS), filled in the RCAF is a real challenge.  I am canceling missions because I have no airplanes, I have no airplanes because I have no techs to fix them.  Valuable people will only tolerate a finite amout of BS.  Breach that threshold and they will pull the pin.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of statistics are kept on these people?  Is there a vast difference between those who have VOT from Cbt Arms Trades and those who have come in off the street and only known the Air Force?  Curious, as I have a friend who was Cbt Arms then AVN, Released, and after a dozen or so years, returned to the Reg Force as AVN.  As all us Cbt Arms types can attest, there is a completely different work ethic between Cbt Arms soldiers and Airmen, not to mention the vast differences in their sense of camaraderie.

 

[DAA]

CF Leave Manual, Section 9.1, Short Leave, article 9.1.01

"The purpose of short leave is to provide a member of the Regular Force or of the Reserve Force on Class "B" or "C" reserve service with time away from their duties to:

-  Compensate, in part, for long hours worked during extended periods of operations/training or working on normal days of rest

However, you need to keep in mind, that short leave is NOT an entitlement, it is more a "benefit" that can be granted at the discretion of the Unit CO or their delegate as they see fit.

As far as the memo, if it is addressed to the CO, it should go to the CO.  If I personally did not support what one my staff were asking for, I would be hand carrying that memo directly to the CO to discuss it face to face.  There is nothing worse than adding a minute of non-concurrence/support, only to have the CO support the request.  You end up looking like an idiot in front of your troops.

 

[MAJONES]

between Cbt Arms soldiers and Airmen, not to mention the vast differences in their sense of camaraderie.

On what squadron did you serve?

 

[George Wallace]

On what squadron did you serve?

???

All Sqns except A in RCD.  A and Depot Sqns in 8 CH (PL) 

My friend on the other hand, who did go Air Force, was happy to be posted out to Winnipeg last year (or 2012) on re-enrolling. 


Edit to add:

Comments on work ethic and camaraderie are all derived from comments from many friends who were Cbt Arms and have gone Air Force, and how much different the life style, work environment and how much they miss the camaraderie they had in the Cbt Arms.

 

[MAJONES]

???

All Sqns except A in RCD.  A and Depot Sqns in 8 CH (PL) 

My friend on the other hand, who did go Air Force, was happy to be posted out to Winnipeg last year (or 2012) on re-enrolling. 


Edit to add:

Comments on work ethic and camaraderie are all derived from comments from many friends who were Cbt Arms and have gone Air Force, and how much different the life style, work environment and how much they miss the camaraderie they had in the Cbt Arms.

So, you have no firsthand knowledge, but you feel compelled to comment anyways. 

 

[George Wallace]

So, you have no firsthand knowledge, but you feel compelled to comment anyways.

Thanks ever so much for you avoiding the issues.  I asked:

Just out of curiosity, what kind of statistics are kept on these people?  Is there a vast difference between those who have VOT from Cbt Arms Trades and those who have come in off the street and only known the Air Force?  Curious, as I have a friend who was Cbt Arms then AVN, Released, and after a dozen or so years, returned to the Reg Force as AVN.  As all us Cbt Arms types can attest, there is a completely different work ethic between Cbt Arms soldiers and Airmen, not to mention the vast differences in their sense of camaraderie.

I thought that a reasonable question.  You in turned are trying to turn it into something else. 

 

[MAJONES]

Thanks ever so much for you avoiding the issues.  I asked:

I thought that a reasonable question.  You in turned are trying to turn it into something else other than Air Force bashing. 

Let's be accurate, please.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

:facepalm:

 

[Good2Golf]

Jay4th, thank you for reinforcing that there are appropriate administrative (leave) tools out there to address situations noted by the OP.  It requires that the supervisory chain use the proper tools and that a unit CO gives appropriate direction and guidance to ensure this is done.

Regards
G2G

 

[George Wallace]

Thanks ever so much for you avoiding the issues.  I asked:

I thought that a reasonable question.  You in turned are trying to turn it into something else other than Air Force bashing. 

Let's be accurate, please.

I am not air force bashing.  I am asking if there is a vast difference in numbers of Releases from those Trades between Cbt Arms persons who have VOT'd into them and those who have come in off the street having known only air force life.  If you want to be a complete IDIOT and not answer, then do so; but don't change the subject because you feel in some way slighted.  Right now you are making this into something it is not.  If you don't accept the fact that there are different work ethics and senses of camaraderie, then don't; but all my experience in talking with those who have jumped the fence to an Air Force Trade have made those comments.  As a matter of fact, you can see the nuances here on this site.  Turn a blind eye or ear to the fact all you want.  Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[Drag]

Let's be accurate, please.


I am not air force bashing.  I am asking if there is a vast difference in numbers of Releases from those Trades between Cbt Arms persons who have VOT'd into them and those who have come in off the street having known only air force life.  If you want to be a complete IDIOT and not answer, then do so; but don't change the subject because you feel in some way slighted.  Right now you are making this into something it is not.  If you don't accept the fact that there are different work ethics and senses of camaraderie, then don't; but all my experience in talking with those who have jumped the fence to an Air Force Trade have made those comments.  As a matter of fact, you can see the nuances here on this site.  Turn a blind eye or ear to the fact all you want.  Don't shoot the messenger.

George,

In my personal experience there was no discernible difference in work ethic or camaraderie between experienced pers in the Air Force that came in off the street or that OT'd from the combat arms.  I suspect that the accounts you were recounted were based on OT pers coming into contact with their new peer group, most of which had less than 3-4 years in the military.  What I have observed is that OT pers have more dedication to the institution and are thus less likely to leave.  I attribute this to them having more invested in their military careers, and being closer to being pensionable. 

I have also observed that the best tradesmen have the most job opportunities and are thus more likely to leave if disgruntled. From my observations the best tradesmen come overwhelmingly from the "off the street" group.  This is frankly because the "off the street" guys tend to be the ones that stereotypical "played with the stuff in their basements when they were kid."  As well, they are the ones that more likely came in with civilian qualifications and certifications, which they maintain while in the CF, and further improve on them in their spare time.

 

[George Wallace]

Thank you D3

That is what I was curious about; which demographic was more likely to Release.  Was it due to previous experience, military or civilian, and you seem to have answered that.

Thanks.