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Air Force's CADPAT name-tag & rank

  • Thread starter Thread starter Yard Ape
  • Start date Start date
I can't answer the T-shirt question. Maybe the CFAOs have something. These mix-ups are part of the evolution of a new uniform type and ususlly sort themselves out over time.

QUOTE - Point of note - I will not be getting my flight suit adjusted for the new blue on OD slip-ons.  I will stick with my OD ones, the flight suit indicates that I am AF, enough said.

In reference to this, there really isn't a choice. This is the military. The OD slip-ons are obsolete, designed and produced for a long gone clothing type. The new OD with blue slip-ons are simply the approved rank badge and therefore must be worn on the flight suit for which they were developed. For the same reason, the Airforce does not wear green berets with their blue DEU, or blue wedge caps with cadpat. These clothing items were not designed and approved for this use. That's not to say that you can't wear the OD slip-ons, because the DHH cannot be everywhere watching every shoulder and sleeve. It just isn't accoring to regs.

QUOTE - Duey is not bitter - he is a pragmatic soldier who calls a spade a spade.  The CWO in Ottawa that dreamed up all this blue thread drivel is someone that is despised throughout the AF. 

I must confess that I was having some fun at Duey's expense. I find it amusing that someone from the the most badged up branch of the service has a problem with blue thread on cadpat slip-ons. Sure, this birth of the idea was a result of a CWO and some thread smaples from his wife's sewing kit, but the slip-ons were put through the system, evaluated and approved by the DND clothing committee (an all service committee).

Just before something hits the fan, I should qualify my reference to the Army as the "most badged up branch of the service". This is a statement of fact, but not a critisism. The badges and insignia worn by the Army are based on long-standing traditions, and I respect their meaning and purpose. The comment was made simply to provide some perspective. Personally, I believe that the eagle on the name tag, in green, would have been sufficient as a service identifier. The Air Force and DND Clothing Committee thought differently. They want blue and that's what is being implemented. The point is, this is a small issue and not the crippling expense suggested in some of the posts above.

The Air Force motto "Per Ardua Ad Astra" is still as relevant today as it was when we adopted it in 1924.
 
Zoomie said:
Point of note - I will not be getting my flight suit adjusted for the new blue on OD slip-ons.  I will stick with my OD ones, the flight suit indicates that I am AF, enough said.

I heard that the old OD slipons were not flame retardant. So, I guess if you crash and burn your slipons will be ablaze.
 
air-ops said:
For the same reason, the Airforce does not wear green berets with their blue DEU, or blue wedge caps with cadpat.

I beg your pardon !!

You have not been on an air force base lately have you ?  Take a walk around several different wings and count how many people wear wedges with CADPAT ( i think it looks stupid BTW). As far as the slip-ons on my flightsuit, well, if they want me to go to blue ones, they'll have to wai until they promote me again because i'm not going through that whole mess just to change from ODs........damned tailor shop !!
 
QUOTE - You have not been on an air force base lately have you ?  Take a walk around several different wings and count how many people wear wedges with CADPAT ( i think it looks stupid BTW). As far as the slip-ons on my flightsuit, well, if they want me to go to blue ones, they'll have to wait until they promote me again because I'm not going through that whole mess just to change from ODs........damned tailor shop !!

Like I said above, DHH cannot be everywhere so odd things do happen. The Air Force introduced the blue beret for these orders of dress, but unless someone is watching and giving specific direction to everyone, people make up their own minds. I certainly don't credit Air Force personnel with having any more intelligence or good judgement than the Army or Navy.

I understand the frustrations that you are speaking about regarding re-badging, tailor shops, etc. Until the promotion comes through, don't smoke to close to your slip-ons.
 
air-ops there is a quote function which might make things easier.

air-ops said:
Like I said above, DHH cannot be everywhere so odd things do happen. The Air Force introduced the blue beret for these orders of dress, but unless someone is watching and giving specific direction to everyone, people make up their own minds. I certainly don't credit Air Force personnel with having any more intelligence or good judgement than the Army or Navy.

I understand the frustrations that you are speaking about regarding re-badging, tailor shops, etc. Until the promotion comes through, don't smoke to close to your slip-ons.
 
aesop081 said:
You have not been on an air force base lately have you ?  Take a walk around several different wings and count how many people wear wedges with CADPAT ( i think it looks stupid BTW).
Or a Navy Base either.  I see at least a couple people a week wearing their wedges with CADPAT, and I agree with you aesop, it looks stupid. 


Is there actually a directive out stating that "thou shall not wear wedges with CADPAT"?
air-ops said:
...introduced the blue beret for these orders of dress, but unless someone is watching and giving specific direction to everyone, people make up their own minds. ...
If there isn't, then you can't enforce anything, and yes, people will make up their own minds, because they would have the choice to.

 
air-ops said:
I must confess that I was having some fun at Duey's expense. I find it amusing that someone from the the most badged up branch of the service has a problem with blue thread on cadpat slip-ons.

The amusing point here is that Duey is a hard air MOC.

I agree Pat,  Elaine the Tailor won't be getting her hands on my flight suits any time soon.

Wedge with CADPAT is a sin...
 
navymich said:
Or a Navy Base either.  I see at least a couple people a week wearing their wedges with CADPAT, and I agree with you aesop, it looks stupid. 


Is there actually a directive out stating that "thou shall not wear wedges with CADPAT"?
If there isn't, then you can't enforce anything, and yes, people will make up their own minds, because they would have the choice to.
The dress manual is wriiten in the way, that if you do not see that it is allowed, it isn't,
i.e. Unless wedge is listed as Cbt dress, it isn't
 
rifleman said:
The dress manual is wriiten in the way, that if you do not see that it is allowed, it isn't,
i.e. Unless wedge is listed as Cbt dress, it isn't
(hehe.... it has started a couple of fights though ;))
 
air-ops said:
I understand the frustrations that you are speaking about regarding re-badging, tailor shops, etc. Until the promotion comes through, don't smoke to close to your slip-ons.

I, for one, do not buy into all this flame retardant tripe. On one hand I have to wear long underwear and flame retardant velcro/slip ons on my flight suit, on the other hand I wear a goretex immersion suit complete with latex (or rubber) wrist and neck seals which sure as shit are not flame retardant. The suit itself may be, but I'll guarantee the wrist and neck seals are not. Not to mention the issued liner is nylon and they're all dated 1970 something. I'll take my chances with flammable slip ons, they're the least of my concerns the 2 months of the year that I'm not wearing an immersion suit while flying.
 
Inch said:
I, for one, do not buy into all this flame retardant tripe. On one hand I have to wear long underwear and flame retardant velcro/slip ons on my flight suit, on the other hand I wear a goretex immersion suit complete with latex (or rubber) wrist and neck seals which sure as crap are not flame retardant. The suit itself may be, but I'll guarantee the wrist and neck seals are not. Not to mention the issued liner is nylon and they're all dated 1970 something. I'll take my chances with flammable slip ons, they're the least of my concerns the 2 months of the year that I'm not wearing an immersion suit while flying.

+1

Air-ops, no harm, no foul.  I'm just pissed off that some folks up the chain, whoses actions appear to put into question how they spend the Queen's shilling, fart about with a multitude of chromatic-based esprit-de-corps enhancers when there are other more pressing matters, like...oh, I don't know...how about "Get your sh1t together on putting CP140 into theatre before 999 sh1t-cans the entire fleet for lack of relevancy...especially when the MP world got a $75M gift from A2517, the CFUTTH project, to buy MX-20s with what was going to be CH146 ERSTA money.  I digress, but not before pointing out how much I personally detest the d1cking about that goes on with small sh1t!  :rage:

p.s.  Folks truly in the know will remember the incident in theatre where McCallum asked a soldier in CADPAT(TW) what the "little bird" on his name tape meant.  The reply was, "It means I'm in the Air Force, sir."  To which the then Minister horrified one of the AF doggy-rubbers patting along behind the MND when he replied, "Oh, I didn't know we had Air Force personnel on an Army operation?"  Well, frick!  Rumour has it the CWO AF person was on the INMARSAT to the Air Staff faster than you can say, "Airforce is insecure!"  ::)  The rest is, as they say, history.  If only we had spent as much time educating the children about Canada's great victory over the fjords beaches of Norway...aye carumba!

Hmmmm...let's see, do I now have to wear CADPAT slip-ons with tan stitching?

Cheers,
Duey
 
Quagmire said:
Duey when are you going to start running things?

Quag...must build trust slowly then...aw heck, I'm screwed.  ;D 

There are enough "true-light-blue" folks that don't think I'm as big on the AF as I should be...I'm pooched.  Let's just say being CAS isn't in my future any time soon.  On the flip-side (meaning not the AF) 999 seems to like (tolerate?) me.  Last time I had the opp to talk with him in AFG, he even promised to sign my 12 month ops waiver to go back to the 'box if the Air Force's ba$tard children (Tac Hel) were eventually sent in -- or maybe that was just to get me out of the country again to provide some relief to the Air Force in general? Hmmm... :-\ 

At this point I can only do my job and facilitate "stuff" from within the unit.  Huah.

Cheers,
Duey
 
Duey said:
Air-ops, no harm, no foul.  I'm just pissed off that some folks up the chain, whose actions appear to put into question how they spend the Queen's shilling, fart about with a multitude of chromatic-based esprit-de-corps enhancers when there are other more pressing matters, like...oh, I don't know...how about "Get your sh1t together on putting CP140 into theatre before 999 sh1t-cans the entire fleet for lack of relevancy...especially when the MP world got a $75M gift from A2517, the CFUTTH project, to buy MX-20s with what was going to be CH146 ERSTA money.  I digress, but not before pointing out how much I personally detest the d1cking about that goes on with small sh1t!  :rage:

Cheers,
Duey

Hi Duey

I enjoyed our sparring earlier over slip-ons and thread colour, but there is no disputing what you said above. This is a small, small thing compared to the operational requirement challenges facing the CF today (and for the past 20+ years). We live in a world of big promises but small, if any, deliveries. I guess it is easier and safer for the brass to push for little things, especially since they can do that from their desk. Although I still have no issue with the blue on the cadpat slip-ons, I do share your disgust that this is the issue that the CAS took on as a priority and is championing personally.

Lets hope that some of the billions promised by Harper actually become tangable equipment in the field.

Cheers
 
air-ops said:
...Lets hope that some of the billions promised by Harper actually become tangable equipment in the field.

Cheers

+1  :salute:
 
My annoyance - and promotability - is similar to Duey's.

I've spent 24 years in Tac Hel and seen one asinine dress disaster after another - in particular, but not limited to, blue flying clothing with labels that said "Coveralls Flyers Combat" on the user label. We fought for decades for our two-piece green flying suits and were told time-after-time that our community was too small to warrant suitable clothing.

The a** f**ce has no concept of Tac Hel and its requirements. I would even say that it's stifled our growth as a community. Our operational capability has languished as a result of our political afiliation. It is a sign of our institutional immaturity that we have to have Army "mission specialists" posted in as we do not properly train all of our personnel in the necessary functions. An Army Aviation Corps would see soldiers first and pilots/FEs/techs second rather than the sorry reverse that we see today. Officers would progress through relevant Army staff courses rather than a** f**ce ones completely irrelevant to Tac Hel and our customers. People would actually understand our primary customers as they would be part of the overall organization and not a part-time add-on that cannot be relied upon.

As for overbadging, how many badges do you see on Army CADPAT? Name, Rank, and unit flash and that's it. Olive green embroidery and T-shirts are not signs of being Army. OG is a low-visibility colour chosen so that these items do not stand out from distances longer than necessary. This is operational dress and not a parade uniform. There's a coloured hat with a badge on it for garrison wear and that's enough.

Personally, I would not care what outlandish nonsense the a** f**ce adopted if Tac Hel were to revert back to the Army where it originated and where it rightfully belonged.
 
air-ops said:
...Like I said above, DHH cannot be everywhere so odd things do happen. The Air Force introduced the blue beret for these orders of dress, but unless someone is watching and giving specific direction to everyone, people make up their own minds. I certainly don't credit Air Force personnel with having any more intelligence or good judgement than the Army or Navy.

Actually, this isn't exactly accurate.  A blue beret simply followed the existing green beret once the CF's were retired and DEUs were introduced.  Prior to what, 88-ish/89-ish?, 10 TAGers all wore green beret (w/Air Ops hat badge) with our tan or dark green flight suits.  Come the DEUs, the blue beret was introduced to replace the green beret, much as our green CF forage cap was replaced with a blue, AF-specific forage cap.  In the early DEU days, you would usually only see the Air Force's ba$tard children from 10 TAG actually having the temerity to wear the beret (either with flying gear or S4Bs, or whatever the heck it is we call the SS shirt order of dress now ???)  Everybody else seemed so proud to strut around with a nice blue wedgie on.  As time passed, more and more folks started wearing the beret...perhaps to soak up some of the keeness (well, relative inside the AF anyways) clearly evident from the manner in which Tactical Aviators carried themselves.  The only thing the AF "fashionistas" never allowed was the wearing of the beret with #1's.  I have no idea whay, as apparently it seems to work for the Army...oh, that's right...did I mention the Air Force is insecure in its own image?  ::)

Fortunately, there are those lucky enough to be given a reprieve from all the AF siliness for a while...ahhhhh, upcoming parade...hmmmm, what to wear with my #1's?  Oh, I know...ah yes, my beret!  Ché Guevara would be proud...he he he.

Loachman, prepare to help me repel boarders to the good ship "AF, Thine Name is Insecurity"  ;D

Cheers,
Duey
 
Duey said:
Loachman, prepare to help me repel boarders to the good ship "AF, Thine Name is Insecurity"
Join me anytime at PHQ (Forward) CAAC - Provisional HQ, Canadian Army Aviation Corps. No insecurities here.
 
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