Air Force's CADPAT name-tag & rank

[navymich]

The way I understand it, is that if you are required to wear something, and unable to get it from the supply system, they cannot make you pay for it out of your own pocket.  In otherwords, you would be reimbursed if you had to purchase them from the Canex.  I guess this leads me to 2 questions:  am I correct in my above statement?  and, are you required to wear the blue T?  For example, in the Navy, you are allowed to wear a white crewneck Tshirt under your NCDs, but as it is not mandatory, you are responsible for the purchase of them.

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

The way I understand it, is that if you are required to wear something, and unable to get it from the supply system, they cannot make you pay for it out of your own pocket.  In otherwords, you would be reimbursed if you had to purchase them from the Canex.  I guess this leads me to 2 questions:  am I correct in my above statement?  and, are you required to wear the blue T?  For example, in the Navy, you are allowed to wear a white crewneck Tshirt under your NCDs, but as it is not mandatory, you are responsible for the purchase of them.

There aren't any blue t-shirts in the system, so it sounds the same: you can wear the issued green or buy the blue at canex and wear that.  Both are acceptable (subject of course to local unit SOPs).

 

[childs56]

DO not go out and buy blue t shirts at Canex or from the unit unless you want to (not because you were ordered to). They can threaten you all they want with not wearing the blue shirt. But the bottom line is until you are issued with the new blue shirts the previous issued green shirts shall work fine.
If they have any probelms with that then ask them for a copy of the CanAirgen or the Canforgen (not sure which one it was) on the in-term wearing of green shirts until the new approved blue shirts are issued.
They took away your clothing up keep allowance of $17 a month, they cannot order you to buy at your own expense uniform parts that have yet to be issued.


On a side note I like the blue rank insignia because I can recognize an officer from an enlisted member with in saluting distance. The Army Cadpat insignia is hard to distinguish some time.

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

On a side note I like the blue rank insignia because I can recognize an officer from an enlisted member with in saluting distance. The Army Cadpat insignia is hard to distinguish some time.

Really?!?  You are the first person that I've heard say that ... everyone else, myself included, seems to find the Army ranks much easier to read than the AirForce CADPAT (the AirForce OD, like on flightsuits, is a different story).

 

[eurowing]

Comox is fortunate to be issued the blue shirts.  As I understand it, Comox  shirts were paid for by 19 Wing as a QOL issue. When I left my last unit we were still wearing the green. I was pleasantly surprised to get them here.

 

[pteosborne]

A funny side note about the AF rank.
Theres a guy on my course whos rank contains a a black bar
at the bottom (just the cadpat pattern). And because
the word canada is in blue thread the bar actually looks blue from a distance or in bad lighting.
so hes had the pleasure/misfourtune of being saluted a number
of times now from as high ups as WO.   
It was fairly amusing to witness.

 

[Popurhedoff]

We only got the Blue nametags and rank insignia because after 4 years and 2 million dollar study it was determined that this is the single item that will drive the Army guys nutz... all a part of a bigger picture...

This was part of a nefarious plot to divert their attention from the fact that the Air Crew are getting C8's and Sig Saurs P226's for PDW in the TacHel world.  The blue T-shirts are just the icing on the cake 

Maybe we can trade in our Berets in for Wedgies again????  would that be way over the top at the Army bases????

BTW.... I stayed at the Holiday Inn Express last night  ;D 

 

[bison33]

argue your flying crap elsewhere..........this thread is way off topic now............anyways....a new rank slip-on with a lighter blue is in the works and should be approved in the near future. It will be a garrison only slip-on though.....heaven forbid anyone know what rank you cadpat wearing folks are overseas.  :

 

[Loachman]

a new rank slip-on with a lighter blue is in the works and should be approved in the near future.

Great. Another stupid waste of money and effort.

As one of our techs said to another in the canteen just after being briefed about this madness of ruining CADPAT with blue crap by Comd 1 Wg a couple of years ago "Why don't we just go back to wearing dickies?"

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

I'm not sure if this is the right category to post this but here goes....
Last week when I was up in Greenwood visiting I was really having a hard time discerning the ranks on the Air Force people. That light blue thread on the CADPAT is almost impossible to see...the Chief Warrant Officer one is ridiculous.

Some one up there said oh yeah they are going to change them I hear.
Anyone else hear that? and what will they change them to?
Why don't we just go back to the way it was with all green stripes etc for everyone? Or maybe black?

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Because that would

1.  Be easy
3.  Make sense

;D

hence the military's inability to do that.

 

[air-ops]

It seems that cooler heads may prevail, and that a semi-intelligent, cost effective, but as yet unconfirmed decision has been made regarding Air Force cadpat and rank insignia. There had been some discussion, and direction from above, that the cadpat slip-ons for the Air Force would be changed to use a lighter blue thread to make the ranks more visible. The latest word is that the present AF cadpat slip-ons with the dark blue thread will be maintained and worn when deployed on active and overseas duty. While in garrison only, the Air Force will wear the slip-ons originally developed for the present average green flight suits - dark blue rank on average green. If this is confirmed, it will be a major cost saving as plans were in the works for the new lighter blue, and even a reversable slip-on with light blue on one face and dark blue on the other. Now the Air Force can make use of a rank slip-on that has already been developed and is in the system. We will have to wait and see if this plan is implemented or changed.

 

[geo]

Why don't we just go back to the way it was with all green stripes etc for everyone? Or maybe black?

Well, some time ago, when Cadpat was just in the testing phase, they did try the ranks & nametags in black.................
If you think they dissapear & are hard to read in green (or) blue..... they vanish in black

 

[Good2Golf]

It seems that cooler heads may prevail, and that a semi-intelligent, cost effective, but as yet unconfirmed decision has been made regarding Air Force cadpat and rank insignia. There had been some discussion, and direction from above, that the cadpat slip-ons for the Air Force would be changed to use a lighter blue thread to make the ranks more visible. The latest word is that the present AF cadpat slip-ons with the dark blue thread will be maintained and worn when deployed on active and overseas duty. While in garrison only, the Air Force will wear the slip-ons originally developed for the present average green flight suits - dark blue rank on average green. If this is confirmed, it will be a major cost saving as plans were in the works for the new lighter blue, and even a reversable slip-on with light blue on one face and dark blue on the other. Now the Air Force can make use of a rank slip-on that has already been developed and is in the system. We will have to wait and see if this plan is implemented or changed.

...or save even more money and use the green stripe on CADPAT slip-on. 

Good thing this AF-(whatever shade of)-blue "a$$-hatery" didn't make it's way to CADPAT(AR) slip ons.  What a complete waste of time, energy and money!  :

Saving up 2 ¢ to help pay for the new slip-ons...*ughhh*

Duey

 

[Loachman]

It seems that cooler heads may prevail

Those heads are so cool that they're below the minimum temperature necessary to sustain life.

This obsession with blue everything is maddening. It's a sign of some immature identity crisis. The Navy doesn't need special T shirts and rank insignia to know who they are.

The real air force (RCAF) did not paint/upholster/dye/stain/wallpaper/carpet everything blue, or confuse infrastructure for combat formations (bases were "Stations", not "Wings" - wings are the air force equivalent of brigades).

I'm still awaiting the initial issue of pills to turn our bodily wastes blue - I'm sure that somebody's wasting too much time and money on R&D somewhere though.

Style over substance every single time.

 

[air-ops]

Not meaning to be defensive, but no-one complained when the Army, as they adopted the DEU, wanted regimental shoulder flashes AND regimental metal shoulder titles AND regimental collar badges AND regimental cap badges - 4 different identifiers on one uniform to say who they are. This is nothing wrong with the army having these things, because it is part of a long tradition. There is also nothing wrong with a the Air Force having a little blue. Surely the millions saved by the adoption of the cadpat uniform by the Air Force, instead of developing their own operational clothing, more than balances off the cost of the blue thread.

 

[Good2Golf]

Not meaning to be defensive, but no-one complained when the Army, as they adopted the DEU, wanted regimental shoulder flashes AND regimental metal shoulder titles AND regimental collar badges AND regimental cap badges - 4 different identifiers on one uniform to say who they are. This is nothing wrong with the army having these things, because it is part of a long tradition. There is also nothing wrong with a the Air Force having a little blue. Surely the millions saved by the adoption of the cadpat uniform by the Air Force, instead of developing their own operational clothing, more than balances off the cost of the blue thread.

Your example would be the equivalent of airmen and airwomen at different units having separate squadron flashes and crests......oh wait, we have that already, in both full colour and low-vis variants. You've countered your own point.

The blue CADPAT slips ons were an ill-conceived way to appease perceived lack of identity of air-force personnel.  It smacks of identity and environmental insecurity.  Apparently the eagle/albatross/a$$hat-bird/whatever on the name tape (when it could actually be seen in OD green) wasn't enough.

Air Force vision: "To be the premier CF organization that ensures fashion is appeased before function."

I remain entirely unimpressed...  :-X ...thankfully I don't have to worry about blue headgear for a while...

Duey

 

[air-ops]

Ahhh, Poker. I love it! I'll see your squadron badges, and raise you brigade patches and command pocket badges, plus metal collar rank. When counting the number of service identifiers, etc. the Army wins every time.

See, this is getting very silly.

Bottom Line - The Air Force adopted the Army cadpat uniform, saving taxpayers the countless millions of dollars that could have been expended in the development, production costs, prototypes and field testing of an Air Force specific equivalent order of dress. The trade off was a desire by 1 Canadian Air Group to have Air Force personnel identifyable as Air Force, not an overly unreasonable request. This was addressed by simply using blue thread instead of green on the slip-ons, achieved through the simple task of changing the spool of thread on the embroidery machine. The Air Force slip-on rank design is identical to that of the Army, so new patterns are not required. You seem very upset about this comparatively small expenditure.

The primary functions of badges and insignia in the military include identification of branch of service, unit affiliation within that branch, rank and trade or skill. Therefore I do not agree with your statement - the Air Force vision: "To be the premier CF organization that ensures fashion is appeased before function." The Air Force is trying to ensure that the badges used on the cadpat fulfil two functions - identification of branch of service and rank.

Its unfortunate that you are taking this so personally. I don't know what the Air Force did to you in the past, but it must have been very traumatic. By the way, it is an eagle and it has been since WWI.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

So wouldn't the eagle on the name tag plus whatever wing on the slip on be an identifier enough?  Once again the Navy is happy with the anchor and unit (whatever the navy term is) on the slip on when wearing CADPAT, why does the Airforce need blue t shirts and blue thread?

 

[Zoomie]

The trade off was a desire by 1 Canadian Air Group to have Air Force personnel identifyable as Air Force, not an overly unreasonable request.

You sound like someone in "the know" - maybe you could clarify a muddy issue for us aircrew types. 

You insist that we wear blue t-shirts (which 19 Wing thankfully has issued us 5 - out of the Wing's budget, mind you) yet do not issue us long-sleeve blue shirts in order to appease the ALSE gods.

Point of note - I will not be getting my flight suit adjusted for the new blue on OD slip-ons.  I will stick with my OD ones, the flight suit indicates that I am AF, enough said.

Duey is not bitter - he is a pragmatic soldier who calls a spade a spade.  The CWO in Ottawa that dreamed up all this blue thread drivel is someone that is despised throughout the AF.