Advice for women on BMQ and other courses [MERGED]

[bojangles]

No offense guys, but I would really like to know from the ladies on this board as to what division they have applied for or are currently in. I have come to the conclusion that Army is best suited for me but then I am torn between Armoured/Artillery or Infantry. I have read tons of stuff on these sites related to each but nothing that really gives me much information as to what I am really in for as a 120 lb female all of 5 foot nothing. I am by no means a wimp but if there is a logical reason women avoid a certain area because perhaps the weapons weigh more than we do, I'd like to know before sending in my applicaiton. 

:warstory: Bojangles

 

[PteCamp]

Hi there Bojangles
I'm a female in the PRes, I am a Sig Op.
I think Sig Op is a great trade, and depending on your unit there could be a large number of females.
Good luck with your application.

-KaT

 

[Eowyn]

I'm a Logistics Officer, in the Reserves.

 

[Inch]

I know you're leaning towards the army, but to answer the title question, they don't seem to be in aircrew positions. I think I could count on one hand how many women aircrew there are at my Sqn. I really don't know why that is, it's open to them just like everyone else. When I went through Moose Jaw, there was maybe 5 women out of 100 student pilots and I only recall one female instructor.

I was in the Armoured reserves with a few women, they seemed to make out just fine. I can't say with any certainty how you'd make out in the infantry but I've heard female infanteers aren't all that common.

 

[aesop081]

I was a combat engineer and there were a few, but not that many women in the NCMc, a fair amount in the officers.  My MOC has a small number of them.  Flight engineers, i know of about 5 or 6, i only knew one in reg force infantry (PPCLI), navigators have alot of women in the trade.

 

[bojangles]

I was pretty focused on Infantry as well as Artillery soldier until looking a little deeper into it. My challange comes in that I only weigh 125 lbs and stand 5 foot nothing. The rucksack and gear alone probably almost outweigh me. After all the good advise as well as research I have been doing. I think Armoured would be the best option for soldier. My other interests are Weapons Tech (land), Field Engineer, and Supply Tech (seems like it may be a little boring though). If anyone can give some advice on these I would appreciate it as well.

Thanks again
Bojangles

 

[aesop081]

I was pretty focused on Infantry as well as Artillery soldier until looking a little deeper into it. My challange comes in that I only weigh 125 lbs and stand 5 foot nothing. The rucksack and gear alone probably almost outweigh me. After all the good advise as well as research I have been doing. I think Armoured would be the best option for soldier. My other interests are Weapons Tech (land), Field Engineer, and Supply Tech (seems like it may be a little boring though). If anyone can give some advice on these I would appreciate it as well.

Thanks again
Bojangles

I can surely tell you about combat engineers, i was one for 11 years. I joined i was 125 pounds so don't worry about that but you will need lots of lwer body and upper body strenght to get by in the trade.  Building bridges will require being tall for some jobs but there are times where a shorter person has an easier time, so don't worry about that either.  Combat engieer ( field engineer is no more) is, IMHO, the best trade in the combat arms.  it will challenge to no end as you will be doing the same stuff the infantry gets to do and you will get to be technically challenged as well, get to build things and blow up others. You can get your para course, combat diving course, EOD.......its very diverse. No other trade compares in my eyes.

 

[George Wallace]

Well, I had both a Coyote driver and 'gunner/Sur Op who are female.  My driver was about 4'2" (I exaggerate a bit) and she did a fine job.  My gunner was filling that hole as an unqualified gunner so her gunning skills were definitely not brought into the picture.  There are about twenty women in the RCD and most seem to be doing fairly well.  If you like the field and hard work: the outdoors type, there should be no problem. 

Actually, with the amount of equipment being put into our vehicles today, being smaller has definite advantages.  

If you are more of a city girl, then look into some of the non-Zero trades.  

GW

 

[aesop081]

.......If you are more of a city girl, then look into some of the non-Zero trades.  

GW

Thats actualy not that acurate as Flight engineer (091) and AESOp (081) are "zero-trades" !!

Cheers

EDIT : but then again, you can't join those from civy land!!

 

[jmackenzie_15]

BoJangles,

It's evident to me you seem to want the infantry =p Your size is not really a factor.I had girls on my infantry course smaller than me that kept up just fine and outpaced some pretty big guys.Im 5'8 and 145lbs, so needless to say, I was quite impressed =p

But then theres the other kind of girls (no offense, this is just in my experience) that you should avoid, and avoid being, are the ones that take advantage of the whole "im a weak girl help me" idea.They would play hurt and not push themselves nearly as much as anyone else because they could get away with it..... its wrong but it happened all the time.

Then there were the other ones, 2 I have in mind, that were tough as nails.All you really have to do is get into decent shape and you'll be fine if you really want it.
PS, I was 128lbs when i joined the army 

 

[Infanteer]

Sorry to say, but size does play a part in that being quite small (plus having a female's naturally less muscular physiology) is going to be a factor in that it will demand much more out of you mentally.   I'm just going over some Lessons Learned by US Forces during combat missions in the Middle East right now and the average load is about 70-80 pounds (this is just fighting order).   This may not be as much to a 200+, 6'2'' guy like me, but to you it means that if you pursue an Infantry route, you are going to have to be prepared to carry half of your body weight as a minimum.   Other situation may demand you carry your full weight in equipment - most studies show that this will lead to breakdown, exhaustion and/or injury if performed for a sustained period of time.

This is not impossible to do, I only say this to point out that the absolute weight demands of real operational situations will demand alot more out of your (smaller) body then our resident "expert", J MacKenzie, would like you believe.

If you feel you're up to the challenge, then by all means, the opportunity is there....

 

[Infanteer]

I highly doubt that anyone would carry 220 lbs on a training exercise.

I see you haven't learned your lesson to well....

 

[aesop081]

I highly doubt that anyone would carry 220 lbs on a training exercise.

I see you haven't learned your lesson to well....

I was gonna raise the BS flag on that one but i figured i'd give the kid the benefit of the doubt !

 

[Pencil Tech]

Bojangles, since you mentioned artillery earlier I can tell you that in my reserve arty unit there are several woman gunners including Master Bombardiers and senior NCOs.

 

[jmackenzie_15]

Inf,

What I meant to say is what you said, just that it is quite possible for females to perform the same tasks as males.I wont disagree that the bigger or smaller you are physically will make it easier or more difficult to get your job done though.

Bojangles,Being in the best shape you can be will /help/ you in any trade you wish to pursue, but except for Combat Engineers, I think the Infantry is probobly one of the most physically demanding jobs the army has to offer.Just so you know what you're getting into =p But if you want go give the infantry a try, by all means, go for it.

 

[9nr Domestic]

If you want to go infantry, then I would encourage you to go for it. I know of a handfull of females in 2 PPCLI, so I know that it has been done before. I also know one female that is maybe 115 lbs. soaking wet and she seems to be able to hold her own.

Just train hard, remember that you might have to work a little harder, so be ready to work harder.

 

[4CDO PARA]

Based on my admittedly limited experience from soldiering with females in the infantry ( does anyone have significant experience in this area with the limited number of females in our infantry?) I have observed that the females on my courses have unfortunately mostly been mentally weak. I am uncertain whether this was a result of the fact that it was simply easier for them to get away with it, that it was already expected of them due to pre-determined ideas about a woman's capabilities and that they are just fulfilling those expectations; or indicative of a direct causal relationship between the typical female physiological makeup and the demands of the infantry trade. That being said, there IS a female paratrooper in our Para Coy that regularly carries more weight in the field as the rad-op ( she carries the radio plus her full marching order ) and the way she soldiers makes some of the guys look bad. I would estimate her body weight at no more that 130lbs. if that helps. I would suggest that an exceptional fitness level and a little intestinal fortitude ought to be able to counter-balance any detrimental physical attributes you have that are based on your gender in relation to performing the role of Combat Arms. I know there are going to be soldiers out there that disagree with this...

 

[ex_coelis]

The most I have ever heard of someone carrying was 220 pounds for a weekend (Infantry).

Nah, it's true.  It was me, I made him carry me on his shoulders for the weekend.  (I forgot my 4-man lift India Chair, my bad).  His buddy carried my 5 C6s.  Man, you wanna hear cadets bitch!

 

[ex_coelis]

Aside from being able to carry your kit, do you think you would be willing/able to kill on command, possibly with your hands?  This is the army we speak of, when shit hits the fan, and you get called to do your job at the sharp end, killing happens.  If that really freaks you out, there are many non-combat arms positions you might consider, and are necessary jobs, honourable jobs as well.

I wonder if recruiters still point this out?

 

[jmackenzie_15]

Based on my admittedly limited experience from soldiering with females in the infantry ( does anyone have significant experience in this area with the limited number of females in our infantry?) I have observed that the females on my courses have unfortunately mostly been mentally weak. I am uncertain whether this was a result of the fact that it was simply easier for them to get away with it, that it was already expected of them due to pre-determined ideas about a woman's capabilities and that they are just fulfilling those expectations; or indicative of a direct causal relationship between the typical female physiological makeup and the demands of the infantry trade. That being said, there IS a female paratrooper in our Para Coy that regularly carries more weight in the field as the rad-op ( she carries the radio plus her full marching order ) and the way she soldiers makes some of the guys look bad. I would estimate her body weight at no more that 130lbs. if that helps. I would suggest that an exceptional fitness level and a little intestinal fortitude ought to be able to counter-balance any detrimental physical attributes you have that are based on your gender in relation to performing the role of Combat Arms. I know there are going to be soldiers out there that disagree with this...

I don't disagree.Just like we stated earlier, your size acts as a handicap though.
"...that it was already expected of them due to pre-determined ideas about a woman's capabilities"

I think perhaps that because of the way our society is built, factors into this.Girls on average tend to not so much as guys do, get involved in competitive sports, physical activity, or perform physically/mentally exhausting and demanding work.When you throw an average person that has lived much this way the majority of their lives into an environment that demands the most from you, one would think this could easily overwhelm them.Somebody said once "If you live an easy life, you will have little heart.If you live a hard life, you will have alot of heart.That is why the infantry have hard lives!"

Im not saying that women live easier than men do, not at all.But in the areas of physicality coupled with alot of 'intestinal fortitude' , on average, I dont beleive the average female is subjected to as much as a male.

However, there are always exceptions, as there were on my courses and many others most likely.The girl on my BIQ course played hockey for years, was studying martial arts, and had multiple bones broken (from hockey) and was tough as nails, perhaps as a result of her 'conditioning'.Id be willing to wager that many of the female tap outs on course have never had to push themselves very hard physically before that point, or at least not as much as is demanded in the CF.

My 2c