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A Deeply Fractured US

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All kinds of stuff, it appears. Uppers, downers, opiates… Pretty much a laundry list of what not to do when storing and dispensing scheduled prescription drugs. It was prolonged and widespread.

I consider it mostly an internal governance issue within the White House Medical Unit, and an oversight failure by DOD, but that’s supply side. The corresponding demand seems to have been considerable, and of necessity confined to those within or closely linked to the White House.
A revelation that people in high-pressure work places succumb to "Cocaine Decisions" behaviour isn't earth-shattering to me; welcome to the 1980s and beyond. Being caught at it is a bit of a novelty, but I'm not naive enough to believe that everyone else isn't popping pills to keep up with their jobs.
 
A revelation that people in high-pressure work places succumb to "Cocaine Decisions" behaviour isn't earth-shattering to me; welcome to the 1980s and beyond. Being caught at it is a bit of a novelty, but I'm not naive enough to believe that everyone else isn't popping pills to keep up with their jobs.
For sure- corporate law and big business have a certain notoriety for that. It’s concerning though when it’s endemic within the White House to the point that the medical unit there is part of the problem.

Anyway, I won’t harp on it further. The topic of drugs and the presidency was introduced by others (and there’s previously been some pretty loud noise and speculation about a small cocaine seizure), this was recently in the news, and I figured it might be useful to show this is a risky issue to try to take partisan sides on.
 
This thread just keeps getting better every day.

:ROFLMAO:
"C'Mon Man" You know this thread is a bad version of Pee Wee Herman's " I know what you are but what am I". I'm sure some here will work their fingers to the bone furiously typing into the Google machine to find point and counter point, "Bigly".

Another thing while I'm at it, People who profess they don't want to hear anymore about Trump will breathlessly post here on the latest Trump news. You can see by the reactions to such post that people really want to hear about Trump. But it seems the outrage developed by Trump activity is by proxy, so to speak. They don't follow his social media posts or listen to his speeches but sure as hell get worked up by something written by a media outlet.

Then there are the ones with a block where they can't mention Trump's name, he's the other guy or the previous guy, comical.
 
So, it's OK if Biden is deficient as long as he keeps taking drugs like other Presidents.

Got it. I have no idea why we're even discussing it then, if past practice absolved him of fault.
I didn't say it was OK; just that it wouldn't be the first time. Draw your own conclusions.
 
it might be useful to show this is a risky issue to try to take partisan sides on.
It is, but I regret that's true of almost any issue. We've also been talking about mental states, and no-one has firm ground to stand and throw stones on that one either.
 
Update on the Georgia prosecution and the motion to dismiss the indictment or to disqualify the District Attorney Fani Wills. The court has ruled that there was no actual conflict, but that there is an appearance of impropriety that must be cured to protect the integrity of the prosecution. The indictments stand; the state has to choose to either recuse DA Wills and her team, or alternatively to sever the prosecutor Nathan Wade from the case. Safe bet that Wade will be removed, and the case will otherwise carry on under Wills as per. The judge split the baby nicely on this, but in the balance, the defense goal of ending or substantially hindering the prosecution does not appear to have been achieved.

Order here: DocumentCloud
 
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Update on the Georgia prosecution and the motion to dismiss the indictment or to disqualify the District Attorney Fani Wills. The court has ruled that there was no actual conflict, but that there is an appearance of impropriety that must be cured to protect the integrity of the prosecution. The indictments stand; the state has to choose to either recuse DA Wills and her team, or alternatively to sever the prosecutor Nathan Wade from the case. Safe bet that Wade will be removed, and the case will otherwise carry on under Wills as per. The judge split the baby nicely on this, but in the balance, the defense goal of ending or substantially hindering the prosecution does not appear to have been achieved.

Order here: DocumentCloud

She's still facing investigation and possible prosecution from her own state government.

Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp signed a law Wednesday that lets a state commission begin operating with powers to discipline and remove prosecutors, potentially disrupting Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis’ prosecution of former President Donald Trump.

The judge dropped six charges against the defendants. Three specifically pertaining to Trump. Those charges being dropped might make it much harder to prove her RICO case.

Nor was he very impressed with her church speech. To the extent she might be gagged from public statements

The judge said Willis can stay on the case only if Wade withdraws due to “an appearance of impropriety” that infected the prosecution team. The judge criticized Willis for a “tremendous” lapse of judgement and questioned the truthfulness of Willis and Wade’s testimony about the timing of their relationship.

Congress wants information on her funding and whether federal funds were misspent. She was subpoenaed in Feb to appear. She has refused to participate or come before the committee. Contempt proceedings are being contemplated by Congress.

Still lots of moving parts, each could fork into things that could diminish or stop the prosecution. Nobody should be cheering her yet.

Splitting the baby - the apt description being repeated by every news outlet talking about it. I've probably heard it about 20 times this morning. 😉
 
She's still facing investigation and possible prosecution from her own state government.

Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp signed a law Wednesday that lets a state commission begin operating with powers to discipline and remove prosecutors, potentially disrupting Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis’ prosecution of former President Donald Trump.

Yup, it’s certainly possible that they may find a way to legislatively interfere with the criminal prosecution. If that should happen it will be really interesting to compare and contrast what some people think of that compared to other instances where governments are alleged to have meddled with prosecutorial discretion.

The judge dropped six charges against the defendants. Three specifically pertaining to Trump. Those charges being dropped might make it much harder to prove her RICO case.

Yup, the indictment wording was insufficiently detailed. Trump now only faces ten felony charges in Georgia instead of thirteen. Prosecutors may seek to re-indict with greater specificity, or just shrug and carry on.

The judge did not dismiss the same alleged facts as predicate acts for the RICO, nor was the RICO charge dismissed.

Nor was he very impressed with her church speech. To the extent she might be gagged from public statements

Nope, her behaviour certainly hasn’t impressed anybody, least of all the judge.

The judge said Willis can stay on the case only if Wade withdraws due to “an appearance of impropriety” that infected the prosecution team. The judge criticized Willis for a “tremendous” lapse of judgement and questioned the truthfulness of Willis and Wade’s testimony about the timing of their relationship.

Yup, again, judge isn’t happy- however he has also ruled on the extent to which the prosecution is and is not impacted, and it’s far short of what the defense hoped for. There’s no fundamental threat to the viability of the criminal prosecution.
Congress wants information on her funding and whether federal funds were misspent. She was subpoenaed in Feb to appear. She has refused to participate or come before the committee. Contempt proceedings are being contemplated by Congress.

Specifically, the Republican controlled house committee wants her to- with all the hypocritical hilarity that entails given that some of them thenselves defied congressional committee subpoenas. In any case, the lawyers will hash that out, and it’s a sideshow that does not and cannot impact on the state of Georgia’s right to administer its own criminal justice system.

Still lots of moving parts, each could fork into things that could diminish or stop the prosecution. Nobody should be cheering her yet.

Indeed- though much less now remains that could halt the prosecution than was the case before this week. So far the defense has not come close to achieving the major trajectory change they needed and hoped for. It’s not impossible by any means, but they’re quickly using up their dry powder.

Splitting the baby - the apt description being repeated by every news outlet talking about it. I've probably heard it about 20 times this morning. 😉

Heh, yeah. Everyone gets some of the baby. Nobody ends up happy with what they got.
 
Yup, it’s certainly possible that they may find a way to legislatively interfere with the criminal prosecution. If that should happen it will be really interesting to compare and contrast what some people think of that compared to other instances where governments are alleged to have meddled with prosecutorial discretion.



Yup, the indictment wording was insufficiently detailed. Trump now only faces ten felony charges in Georgia instead of thirteen. Prosecutors may seek to re-indict with greater specificity, or just shrug and carry on.

The judge did not dismiss the same alleged facts as predicate acts for the RICO, nor was the RICO charge dismissed.



Nope, her behaviour certainly hasn’t impressed anybody, least of all the judge.



Yup, again, judge isn’t happy- however he has also ruled on the extent to which the prosecution is and is not impacted, and it’s far short of what the defense hoped for. There’s no fundamental threat to the viability of the criminal prosecution.


Specifically, the Republican controlled house committee wants her to- with all the hypocritical hilarity that entails given that some of them thenselves defied congressional committee subpoenas. In any case, the lawyers will hash that out, and it’s a sideshow that does not and cannot impact on the state of Georgia’s right to administer its own criminal justice system.



Indeed- though much less now remains that could halt the prosecution than was the case before this week. So far the defense has not come close to achieving the major trajectory change they needed and hoped for. It’s not impossible by any means, but they’re quickly using up their dry powder.



Heh, yeah. Everyone gets some of the baby. Nobody ends up happy with what they got.

There is a dispute resolution mechanism for when the executive and the courts disagree. It is called parliament. And they are supreme. Even if it is called Congress. ;)
 
There is a dispute resolution mechanism for when the executive and the courts disagree. It is called parliament. And they are supreme. Even if it is called Congress. ;)
So you’re good with a party that holds legislative control of parliament using its legislative powers to pervert the course of an active, specific criminal prosecution? I’m not sure if you’ve thought the broader consequences of that through. It’s a risky stance to adopt.
 
So you’re good with a party that holds legislative control of parliament using its legislative powers to pervert the course of an active, specific criminal prosecution? I’m not sure if you’ve thought the broader consequences of that through. It’s a risky stance to adopt.

No. I'm good with playing by the rules.

And every 4 or 5 years I get to join my fellow Canucks in trying to change the rule changers.

In the interval, pass the beer.
 
I forgot to add at the bottom of my longer reply above- IMO, the wise COA for Wills would be to immediately remove Wade so the matter can continue in court, and then advise the court of her intent to transition to matter to a new DA as expeditiously as possible without delaying or compromising the continuity of the prosecution’s path through court. There will be a number of subordinate prosecutors on the team who can help ensure continuity through a leadership transition. This would also serve to minimize the impacts of even the perceived impropriety, hopefully helping to proof the case against subsequent appeals on those grounds.

EDIT TO ADD: Wade’s immediate resignation has been tendered and accepted.
 
So you’re good with a party that holds legislative control of parliament using its legislative powers to pervert the course of an active, specific criminal prosecution? I’m not sure if you’ve thought the broader consequences of that through. It’s a risky stance to adopt.
Did you say that with a straight face?😄 Democrats and liberals come to mind. Are you fine when they do it or just when the Republicans do it?

"New York’s Adult Survivor’s Act went into effect Thursday, allowing survivors of sexual assault or abuse who were 18 years or older at the time to file a civil lawsuit against their abuser past the state’s statute of limitations. The act was signed into law by Governor Kathy Hochul in May and amends the statute of limitations for civil actions related to sexual offenses committed against adults in the State of New York. Under the act, civil actions which were previously barred by the statute of limitations are now revived. Survivors now have a one-year window to file the allowed civil actions for cases of sexual assault for which they previously could not file suit past the time limitation placed on the crime"

Enacting special legislation in order to charge Trump. Blatant and partisan, but OK because it was democrats and it was to get Trump.
 
And breaking news…

Not earth shattering nor consequential. Trump already has the endorsement of much more powerful people. Oh, and he has the nomination. Pence is pretty well a nobody. Might as well be Jimmy Kimmel or Nancy Pelosi announcing they won't back Trump. White noise.
 
So you’re good with a party that holds legislative control of parliament using its legislative powers to pervert the course of an active, specific criminal prosecution? I’m not sure if you’ve thought the broader consequences of that through. It’s a risky stance to adopt.

No. I'm good with playing by the rules.

And every 4 or 5 years I get to join my fellow Canucks in trying to change the rule changers.

In the interval, pass the beer.

PS - just to clarify

The rules say that the legislature gets to decide. If the legislature decides that the courts or executive are abusing their powers they have the power to shut either or both of them down. And if we, the voters, decide that the legislature is abusing their powers we have the ability, every four or five years, to turf them and insert a new lot...if the majority so decides.

Truth, justice and right have nothing to do with the matter. It is simply a methodology for resolving disputes. Just like the courts, judges and juries.

Now keep that two swordslength distance from me so the Sergeant-At-Arms doesn't have to break your skull with that mace. ;)
 
It looks like the Willis fiasco won't get off the ground until after the election anyway.


"Fulton County DA Fani Willis’ politically motivated, wrongful attempt to deny President Trump due process of law by arguing that no severances should be granted has been summarily squashed by the court,” a spokesperson for Trump said. “Willis’ unjust rush to judgment in order to please her radical political base has simply failed.”

While McAfee didn’t set a trial date for Trump and 16 of his co-defendants, the timeline he sets out in a court order Thursday means they wouldn’t go on trial before at least December.

The new schedule laid out by the judge signals he wants to start hashing out pretrial disputes with the batch of 17 defendants by the end of the year. The judge is ordering discovery to start by October 6.

However, there is no set timeline yet for the trial for the 17 defendants nor is there one for resolving disputes over what evidence can be presented to the jury. McAfee ordered that other types of pretrial motions be filed by December 1, but he has not scheduled a hearing on those requests."
 
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