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A Deeply Fractured US

If children, or their parents, aren't being served to their satisfaction by their school then they should have the option of shopping around and going somewhere else. The parents pay taxes to the government to supply their children with satisfactory educations. The vouchers allow the parents to direct their tax money to their preferred school.

No different than being able to select your own doctor.

If one then takes that idea to its illogical conclusion, why should those without children needing an education pay education taxes? Since half* of my "property tax" bill for the last 30 years** has been the provincial education portion and I've no children (none that I claim or that claim me, in any Canadian jurisdiction, anyway), I can think of many preferred purposes for those thousands and thousands of dollars than subsidizing 12 years of schooling for someone else's broken condom roulette.


* approximately
** and a dozen or so years of a portion of property education tax included in rental payments.
 
If one then takes that idea to its illogical conclusion, why should those without children needing an education pay education taxes? Since half* of my "property tax" bill for the last 30 years** has been the provincial education portion and I've no children (none that I claim or that claim me, in any Canadian jurisdiction, anyway), I can think of many preferred purposes for those thousands and thousands of dollars than subsidizing 12 years of schooling for someone else's broken condom roulette.


* approximately
** and a dozen or so years of a portion of property education tax included in rental payments.

Not a bad question.

Who will be paying for your health insurance and old age pension? You don't have direct stake in the children but you do have an indirect stake. Having said that the children are still the wards of the parents first and foremost.
 
If one then takes that idea to its illogical conclusion, why should those without children needing an education pay education taxes? Since half* of my "property tax" bill for the last 30 years** has been the provincial education portion and I've no children (none that I claim or that claim me, in any Canadian jurisdiction, anyway), I can think of many preferred purposes for those thousands and thousands of dollars than subsidizing 12 years of schooling for someone else's broken condom roulette.


* approximately
** and a dozen or so years of a portion of property education tax included in rental payments.

Might be an idea. Let childless people choose to fund public education or they and divert that value to another publicly funded service.

It might actually force our education systems to get back to teaching instead of social engineering due to budgetary constraints.
 
Might be an idea. Let childless people choose to fund public education or they and divert that value to another publicly funded service.

It might actually force our education systems to get back to teaching instead of social engineering due to budgetary constraints.

I think I'll divert mine exclusively to abortion services, or vaccine programmes, or better still, taking a popular thought from the conservative notebook, "I should be able to keep it for myself, I know how to spend it better than any government".
 
I think I'll divert mine exclusively to abortion services, or vaccine programmes, or better still, taking a popular thought from the conservative notebook, "I should be able to keep it for myself, I know how to spend it better than any government".

I think I'll divert my defence dollars to my pension plan. I am getting no value out of DND in any case.... :p
 
I think I'll divert my defence dollars to my pension plan. I am getting no value out of DND in any case.... :p

Except that there is no portion of your federal income taxes that is specifically designated for defence. Education, on the other hand, is directly funded (in part) by the "education property tax". It is specifically identified on your property tax bill/assessment as to purpose and amount. And whether or not one pays federal/provincial income tax, if one owns a home or rents a property, they will pay the education property tax regardless of income level.

 
If one then takes that idea to its illogical conclusion, why should those without children needing an education pay education taxes? Since half* of my "property tax" bill for the last 30 years** has been the provincial education portion and I've no children (none that I claim or that claim me, in any Canadian jurisdiction, anyway), I can think of many preferred purposes for those thousands and thousands of dollars than subsidizing 12 years of schooling for someone else's broken condom roulette.


* approximately
** and a dozen or so years of a portion of property education tax included in rental payments.
The illogical conclusion doesn't follow. K-12 education is publicly funded. The general idea that people can sometimes direct how their publicly-funded benefits should be provided already exists; the general idea that people should be able to itemize exactly what their taxes do and do not pay for has not really been established.

We can pretend that taxes are for specific purposes, but unless the revenues and expenses are entirely walled off from anything else, money knows no specific purposes.
 
I have the option to direct my property taxes to one of four school systems in Ontario. Did that for years despite opting for private school for my kid.

Someone diverted their taxes to subsidize my schooling in the French catholic system and I have no issues doing the same.
 
I think I'll divert mine exclusively to abortion services, or vaccine programmes, or better still, taking a popular thought from the conservative notebook, "I should be able to keep it for myself, I know how to spend it better than any government".

If that's what you think is a valuable way to spend your tax dollars, fill your boots.

You're talking to a guy who largely sees income tax as theft. So giving the populace some control on where its spent is good to me. We can differ on where it goes, but its your money you spend it on what you want.
 
Still a threadjack, but:

One more thing about the education assessment on property taxes: if I paid this year's assessment for 65 years, I'd pay a little over $55,000. I doubt that covers the cost of one K-12 education, let alone the cost of a couple living together and paying one dwelling tax. Education assessments aren't paying for anyone's own education, let alone the educations of others.
 
Still a threadjack, but:

One more thing about the education assessment on property taxes: if I paid this year's assessment for 65 years, I'd pay a little over $55,000. I doubt that covers the cost of one K-12 education, let alone the cost of a couple living together and paying one dwelling tax. Education assessments aren't paying for anyone's own education, let alone the educations of others.

Likewise the money I would save from diverting my DND taxes would by me a Vente Macchiato and a Biscotti a week. Not going to do much to keep a roof over my head.
 

White House urges news networks to increase scrutiny of GOP’s Biden impeachment inquiry​

The White House has sent a memo to news outlets, urging them to ramp up scrutiny of the House Republicans’ impeachment inquiry into President Biden.

The memo, titled “It’s Time For The Media To Do More To Scrutinize House Republicans’ Demonstrably False Claims That They’re Basing Impeachment Stunt On,” was sent by Ian Sams, White House spokesperson for oversight and investigations.

 
It's about time

Senior Republican Kevin McCarthy has announced a formal impeachment inquiry against President Joe Biden

Interesting that McCarthy has opted to make a unilateral decision rather than put it to the floor as he has said he would several times. It may be linked to the fact that he does not have the votes nor the support of all of his members and he is under pressure from some of the more radical members of his party.
 
And that is precisely the argument that the Roman church had with State schools throughout the Protestant world. What got taught to whom when and for how long? The Roman church had opinions on the universality of education, whether or not liberal economics and philosophy should be taught. Sex education. Creationism. Standards of obedience. Degree to which authority should be questioned. Standards of debate. Suitable reference material.

Those opinions were at variance with liberal Protestant thought that was mainstream opinion in most English speaking countries. The Roman church did find echoes in some more conservative, often evangelical sects. And in the Jewish community.

And I am careful to reference the Roman church rather than the Catholic church because, aside from a number of protestant churches considering themselves members of the Catholic community, the Catholic churches in England and Ireland survived as native churches even after the Reformation. Some of Elizabeth Tudor's senior Court, notably the Howards, despite the odd execution, largely remained true to their Church and were tolerated to the same extent as the Quakers, Methodists and Puritans. The Roman influence only really reasserted itself between the French Revolution of 1789 and Garibaldi's Italian revolution and the 1879 Fall of Rome.
And on that note I have just become violently aware at just how little history I know of the various churches, or the real differences between them (past or present)



And I have ignored that, because "long standing tradition" isn't a argument in and of itself.

Parents. While schools educate. If the parents "values" get challenged by grade school education, that's a them problem.
I'm in agreement with both of these statements.


Long standing tradition not being a valid argument is akin to our organization saying "This is how we've always done things, so we are going to keep doing it the same way!"

Also agreed that it is the parents job to raise their kids, while it is the school's job to educate those kids and ensure their safety during the time they have them.

Too many parents farm out the raising of their kids and put that onus on schools. And schools have tried their best to accomodate this gradual shift (with varying degrees of success) but it isn't their role to essentially be the primary caregiver of the kids that attend it
 

White House urges news networks to increase scrutiny of GOP’s Biden impeachment inquiry​

The White House has sent a memo to news outlets, urging them to ramp up scrutiny of the House Republicans’ impeachment inquiry into President Biden.

The memo, titled “It’s Time For The Media To Do More To Scrutinize House Republicans’ Demonstrably False Claims That They’re Basing Impeachment Stunt On,” was sent by Ian Sams, White House spokesperson for oversight and investigations.

Interesting that the White House is urging the news networks to do anything at all given the court rulings of recent, re First Amendment violations via government censorship of social media & legacy media companies...


Gosh I have grown ever so tired of modern politics being the cancer on our society that it has become, especially over the last few years

Can we not have a system of governance that allows for a democratic way of people choosing the government that acts on their behalf, with a non-partisan system that supports a general 'lowest acceptable performance standard' where if the government is NOT performing to the minimum standard, it runs the risk of impeachment supported across the board.

To be more clear - if the elected leadership are doing an exceptionally shitty job, people should not feel forced to support them simply because they are in the same political party.
 
And on that note I have just become violently aware at just how little history I know of the various churches, or the real differences between them (past or present)




I'm in agreement with both of these statements.


Long standing tradition not being a valid argument is akin to our organization saying "This is how we've always done things, so we are going to keep doing it the same way!"

Also agreed that it is the parents job to raise their kids, while it is the school's job to educate those kids and ensure their safety during the time they have them.

Too many parents farm out the raising of their kids and put that onus on schools. And schools have tried their best to accomodate this gradual shift (with varying degrees of success) but it isn't their role to essentially be the primary caregiver of the kids that attend it


The Quebec Government site actually has a good summary of the history of education in Quebec.

Two threads of interest that I would add.

One

- when the Catholic church is referenced in Quebec, or the rest of Canada, it seems important to me to note that the different orders, Jesuits, Recollets, Sulpiciens and Oblates didn't just have different hair cuts and colours of robes, they often had separate political affiliations. Some were tied to Rome and the Hapsburgs, some were tied to Paris and the Valois, some were tied to the French merchant class, those that didn't cling to their Huguenot and Calvinist beliefs.

Two -

It was not until 1801 that the first piece of school legislation appeared in the Statutes of Lower Canada (Québec). This law created elementary schools administered by the Royal Institution for the Advancement of Learning, a sort of standing committee on education under the authority of the British governor.

This work was predicated on the work of John Anderson and George Birkbeck at the Andersonian Institute of Glasgow - established in 1796 as a co-ed school for useful learning - a trades school open to all with fees affordable by apprentices. One of the key features of the Andersonian and its offspring was one of the major subjects of dispute - the library. All knowledge was available to all students. All students were expected to be numerate and literate. They were also places where the students and faculty of all classes could discuss and debate and argue about philosophy as well as about steam pressure and safety factors.

In 1801, in many parts of the world this was perceived as dangerously radical and likely to generate more Jacobin terrors.

Regardless they became the norm in the English speaking world as the Mechanics Institutes and the driving inspiration for Egerton Ryerson's public system. Egerton was a good Methodist that believed in the power of literacy and prayer and free thinking. Anglican Bishop Strachan saw him as a dangerous Yankee radical, along with his fellow radical, William Lyon MacKenzie.

Canada's history is not a French-English squabble or even a simple Protestant-Catholic squabble. It is much more multi-faceted than either of those notions would suggest.

In my opinion Canadians have been victimized by those that would seek to create clear divisions for their own political gain when the truth is much more nuanced. People regularly crossed language and national and religious boundaries to form their own associations.
 
Why the White House thinks that openly asking media to "increase scrutiny" (as if Republicans aren't generally under a high degree of scrutiny already) is a good idea escapes me. "Please openly align yourself with the interests of the politician under investigation, irrespective of the fact that we've gone from 'zero involvement' to 'well, it was just casual conversations'."
 
It's about time

Senior Republican Kevin McCarthy has announced a formal impeachment inquiry against President Joe Biden


Fun that he’s skipping the part where he needs the votes.

More fun that this flagrantly ignores the legal opinion from the Trump era DOJ about such an inquiry requiring a house vote. The ‘so what’ being that, without a house vote on the matter, things like subpoenas may not be legally enforceable.

Anyway, the impeachment inquiry is theatre, senior republicans know it’s theatre, and everyone knows little to nothing will come of it. But if they must go about the charade, they’re free to.
 
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