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09/10 Budget Impact on PRes - Unit stand-downs, Class B Freeze, and so on!

Dissident said:
I see it the other way around, me thinks there are plenty of people sitting around waiting to jump in the fray.

It made me so proud last Wednesday that almost everyone in my platoon put their hands up for Haiti if need be.

Agreed. A lot of folks in my unit who 'missed the boat' for TF 1-10 are chomping at the bit for a chance to sign up for Haiti. It would probably be easier to employ more reservists on a shorter readiness cycle than it would be for Afghanistan- I like to hope that the reserves will be looked on as a potential asset for OP Hestia. We could buy the regs at least some breathing room, I think. We certainly have enough reservists with Kandahar experience to form a solid core of any substantial reserve commitment to Haiti.
 
this might not be a popular response for some on here, but I think the Reservists should say NO for this...after getting screwed over by CLS budget cuts...what goes around comes around...
 
bigcletus said:
this might not be a popular response for some on here, but I think the Reservists should say NO for this...after getting screwed over by CLS budget cuts...what goes around comes around...

Yeah, sometimes it is tempting to extend your middle finger to the guy who made you feel like shit, just for being a reservist. Especially when he comes back later to ask for help.

Somehow I know we (the PRes) are better than that.
 
bigcletus said:
this might not be a popular response for some on here, but I think the Reservists should say NO for this...after getting screwed over by CLS budget cuts...what goes around comes around...
If you say "no", you're not screwing over the CLS, you're saying "no" to the people of Haiti.  If you can sleep soundly after such a decision, then I would offer that you'd best serve your country by releasing from the CF.
 
bigcletus said:
Having served Canada for almost 33 years..I don't need a snide remark fro some useless twat..
Of course you don't.  The remark I made (in case that's the one to which you refer as "snide") was made with a straight face, and it was sincere.

The CLS is not out to "get" the reserves.  Hell, the reserves are an integral part of the Forces, as important as any other part.  Just so you know, Regular Force training has been hit by the budget as well.  If you offer a "no" to serve because you feel hard done by, or whatever, I understand the sentiment.  I went through such budgetary slashing when I was a reservist.  Since I didn't join for the money, and since I was still living at home and the money was but a fringe benefit, I could afford to have that attitude.  Others don't, and many rely upon their earnings to support their way of life (which includes such "trivial" things as food, shelter, clothing, etc).  Yet, as you know, we serve for more than that.  You know it, and I know it.  If you were to turn down a deployment because you felt hard done by due to the economy, tell that not to me, but to the workers who were laid off in the hundreds of thousands over the past year or so.  And tell that to the hundreds of thousands of Haitians who so desperately need our help now.  So, if you can say that to them, with a straight face and without feeling a "twinge", then maybe it's time to hang up the hat, release, and open a spot for someone else to fill.

And have a nice day.
 
Technoviking said:
Of course you don't.  The remark I made (in case that's the one to which you refer as "snide") was made with a straight face, and it was sincere.

The CLS is not out to "get" the reserves.  Hell, the reserves are an integral part of the Forces, as important as any other part.  Just so you know, Regular Force training has been hit by the budget as well.  If you offer a "no" to serve because you feel hard done by, or whatever, I understand the sentiment.  I went through such budgetary slashing when I was a reservist.  Since I didn't join for the money, and since I was still living at home and the money was but a fringe benefit, I could afford to have that attitude.  Others don't, and many rely upon their earnings to support their way of life (which includes such "trivial" things as food, shelter, clothing, etc).  Yet, as you know, we serve for more than that.  You know it, and I know it.  If you were to turn down a deployment because you felt hard done by due to the economy, tell that not to me, but to the workers who were laid off in the hundreds of thousands over the past year or so.  And tell that to the hundreds of thousands of Haitians who so desperately need our help now.  So, if you can say that to them, with a straight face and without feeling a "twinge", then maybe it's time to hang up the hat, release, and open a spot for someone else to fill.

And have a nice day.

Filled by whom?

I'd rather keep a somewhat bitter ex-class B with a wealth of experience on the rolls as a class A than bump somebody else up to section commander to replace him. If he's an asset to the organization, and isn't overwhelmed by the milk of human kindness to go do disaster relief somewhere he doesn't believe we have a stake, losing him isn't a good thing.

If he's bitter to the point where he's not helping with training or admin, fair enough, but that's not a given. People are displeased with the budget choices that were made, and they're going to be less disposed towards making themselves available for taskings. I don't think they're wrong to feel that way.

Enough good folks release after a tour, and I wouldn't want to see more than necessary.
 
Haiti will just add to the pain for the DND budget. It is the right thing to do but there will be a cost.

Only thing Canada's reservists need cut is some slack

Christie Blatchford

Published on Monday, Jan. 18, 2010 7:32PM EST Last updated on Monday, Jan. 18, 2010 7:49PM EST

Sergeant George Miok, Sergeant Kirk Taylor and Corporal Zachery McCormack – three of the young soldiers who were killed, along with Private Garrett Chidley and Canadian journalist Michelle Lang, in a massive roadside bomb late last year – have all been laid to rest.

What these three had in common, which has received remarkably little notice – they were all reservists, or part-time soldiers.

Sgt. Miok, who was also a teacher, was a member of 41 Combat Engineer Regiment, a reserve unit based in Edmonton; Sgt. Taylor's home unit was the 84 Independent Field Battery in Yarmouth, N.S., and Corp. McCormack was an “Eddie,” a member of the Loyal Edmonton Regiment, a storied infantry unit.

I didn't know any of them but experience tells me they would have been as fiercely proud of their real units as Pte. Chidley was of being a member of the 2nd Battalion, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry.

In Afghanistan, reservists are usually attached as individuals to the battle group, and when they are killed overseas, their reserve identities are usually subsumed by the larger regiment – officially referred to, if at all, only obliquely, as in, “based in Yarmouth” or “from Edmonton.”

Yet throughout Canada's involvement in Afghanistan, reservists have been there. They have given lives and limbs, just as the regulars have. Every roto to Kandahar has had at least 300 reservists (out of a total of about 2,500 soldiers) and some as many as 500-plus. They do the same jobs and take the same risks as their full-time counterparts and, once deployed, are also paid the same and receive the same benefits. Some of them have to take unpaid leave from civilian jobs, or put promising careers on the shelf, for the privilege of going.

Yet traditionally, when budget push comes to shove, the reserves take a harder hit than the regular force – chiefly because, where in the regular force wages come from a separate envelope of funds, in the militia it's all of a single piece, so when you cut reserve dollars you're cutting training, bullets, travel, pay and people. Thus, what purports to be suffering dispersed equally in fact isn't.

It's happening again, and was even as those three young men were buried this month.

According to what Brigadier-General John Collin, the commander of Joint Task Force Central Area (it means Ontario), has been saying at town hall meetings across the province, the army is looking to chop 5,000 reservists.

The cuts are completely at odds with the government's stated position that both the regular army and the reserves are to grow as part of the Canada First defence strategy, and raise the question: If Ottawa has been giving the army the money to grow, what the heck has the army been doing with it?

The key cuts are being made to what are called “Class B” contracts, those reservists who hold full-time jobs, many in training positions.

As Lieutenant-Colonel (retired) Blair McGregor told me recently in a furious note, “reserve units are being stripped of the full-time support staff that is so desperately needed to train the part-time soldiers we rely on.” Lt.-Col. McGregor was until 2008 the Commanding Officer of the Seaforth Highlanders in Vancouver, home unit of Captain Trevor Greene, who was axed in the head and nearly killed while serving in Afghanistan in 2006.

But the cuts aren't stopping there, and they appear to be deeper than first quietly announced in November.

According to Lt.-Col. McGregor, John Selkirk of Reserves 2000 (a group formed to fight for the militia) and others contacted by The Globe and Mail, contracts for Afghanistan-deploying reservists have been cut by a month, reservists who have put civilian lives on hold are having theirs cancelled at the last minute and training budgets are being slashed, with training in some units cut to a half-night a week.

The cuts are also being applied to recruiting, with the next recruit classes in some units cut by more than half. As Mr. Selkirk, the former honorary colonel of the Brockville Rifles, says, “That's the difference between growing and probably shrinking.”

And reserve units, once shrunk, are then vulnerable to government pressure to amalgamate with other units.

“I haven't seen it this bad since the late 1980s, '90s,” says one non-commissioned officer at an Ontario reserve unit; this, remember, was the period that former chief of the defence staff Rick Hillier described as “the decade of darkness.”

As Lt.-Col. McGregor says, “The militia regiments that have stood the test of time … are being threatened with starvation in order to make ends meet. Without a force generator like the reserve regiments, our Canadian Forces will be very hard-pressed to make the contribution that is required.…we know from the historic record that there is always another emergency around the corner.”

(He wrote that before the earthquake flattened Haiti, a country with which Canada has strong ties. If the army wasn't overstretched before, it will be now.)

The truth is that the reserves and its citizen soldiers have always been unappreciated by the bureaucracy at the Department of National Defence and sometimes by government.

To Lt.-Col. McGregor, the reserves should function for the regular army as the junior leagues do for the National Hockey League. Yet Canada is one of the few countries in the world where the army reserves are smaller than the regular army. This makes no sense, he says. “There should likely be a 2:1 or 3:1 reserves to regular force ratio.

“A further truth about the reserve army is that you can't rip it apart and then easily or quickly rebuild it later when you need it. As in the hockey analogy, each hockey team in any league has a first, second and third line and each team has leadership in the form of a coach, manager, captain and several assistant captains.

“And soldiers,” he says, “like to belong to cohesive and proud organizations and in Canada these are called regiments. They are the ‘teams' on which soldiers exist.”

In the national game, anyone who doesn't perform is swiftly fired. Canada's soldiers, reservists included, have performed beyond expectations. Would that the same could be said of those who make these maddening and shabby decisions.


 
I hope that this is just temporary until the fiscal year starts on 1 April.  Either way, it looks like there won't be much for March madness this year.  If this persists into the next fiscal year then I honestly people should get their honoraries involved.  After all, if after the last eight years of operations, the powers that be at area HQs and higher can't or won't understand the importance of the reserves than they never will. 

The reserves always seem to get it in the neck first.  I was hoping but not expecting that the reserve force would no longer be considered by people in area and higher as a threat to their little empires.  It's obvious that we've gotten too uppity for our own good what with our disproportionate contribution to operations and training over the last few years.  Couldn't have seen this coming. 
 
What is happening right now with all this penny pinching is a travesty, and kudo's to Kristie Blatchford for writing that article.  Not only are we technically "at war" we are also involved in mounting a major humanitarian mission, and yet our political leaders treat us like this. Shame on the government.
 
Well, I just dashed off an email to my member of parliament asking for a review of this situation. Shameful......
 
Christie Blatchford said:
... training in some units cut to a half-night a week ...

I hate to split hairs here, but try 2 half days "training" between 2 Dec 09 and "Aprilish". And that's pending the next budget does not give us more of the same. A half night a week might actually be enough to keep some of the skill fade off.

Not to mention the LFCA Cmdr expects to have 6 Coys of PRes ready for the G20 Summit. That's an accident waiting to happen. Not training is one thing, expecting people who aren't training to perform with the world's eyes on them is another.
 
toughenough said:
Not training is one thing, expecting people who aren't training to perform with the world's eyes on them is another.

A situation that, i assure you, is not limited to the reserves.
 
MILITARY SUPPORT
Only thing reservists need cut is some slack Even in the wake of recent deaths, budgets to train and recruit our part-time soldiers are being slashed

Christie Blatchford
Globe and Mail
19 Jan 2010


Sergeant George Miok, Sergeant Kirk Taylor and Corporal Zachery McCormack - three of the young soldiers who were killed, along with Private Garrett Chidley and Canadian journalist Michelle Lang, in a massive roadside bomb late last year - have all been laid to rest.

What these three had in common, which has received remarkably little notice - they were all reservists, or part-time soldiers.

Sgt. Miok, who was also a teacher, was a member of 41 Combat Engineer Regiment, a reserve unit based in Edmonton; Sgt. Taylor's home unit was the 84 Independent Field Battery in Yarmouth, N.S., and Corp.

McCormack was an "Eddie," a member of the Loyal Edmonton Regiment, a storied infantry unit.

I didn't know any of them but experience tells me they would have been as fiercely proud of their real units as Pte. Chidley was of being a member of the 2nd Battalion, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry.

In Afghanistan, reservists are usually attached as individuals to the battle group, and when they are killed overseas, their reserve identities are usually subsumed by the larger regiment - officially referred to, if at all, only obliquely, as in, "based in Yarmouth" or "from Edmonton." Yet throughout Canada's involvement in Afghanistan, reservists have been there. They have given lives and limbs, just as the regulars have. Every roto to Kandahar has had at least 300 reservists (out of a total of about 2,500 soldiers) and some as many as 500-plus.

They do the same jobs and take the same risks as their full-time counterparts and, once deployed, are also paid the same and receive the same benefits. Some of them have to take unpaid leave from civilian jobs, or put promising careers on the shelf, for the privilege of going.

Yet traditionally, when budget push comes to shove, the reserves take a harder hit than the regular force - chiefly because, where in the regular force wages come from a separate envelope of funds, in the militia it's all of a single piece, so when you cut reserve dollars you're cutting training, bullets, travel, pay and people.

Thus, what purports to be suffering dispersed equally in fact isn't.

It's happening again, and was even as those three young men were buried this month.

According to what Brigadier-General John Collin, the commander of Joint Task Force Central Area (it means Ontario), has been saying at town hall meetings across the province, the army is looking to chop 5,000 reservists.

The cuts are completely at odds with the government's stated position that both the regular army and the reserves are to grow as part of the Canada First defence strategy, and raise the question: If Ottawa has been giving the army the money to grow, what the heck has the army been doing with it? The key cuts are being made to what are called "Class B" contracts, those reservists who hold full-time jobs, many in training positions.

As Lieutenant-Colonel (retired) Blair McGregor told me recently in a furious note, "reserve units are being stripped of the full-time support staff that is so desperately needed to train the part-time soldiers we rely on." Lt.-Col. McGregor was until 2008 the Commanding Officer of the Seaforth Highlanders in Vancouver, home unit of Captain Trevor Greene, who was axed in the head and nearly killed while serving in Afghanistan in 2006.

But the cuts aren't stopping there, and they appear to be deeper than first quietly announced in November.

According to Lt.-Col. McGregor, John Selkirk of Reserves 2000 (a group formed to fight for the militia) and others contacted by The Globe and Mail, contracts for Afghanistan-deploying reservists have been cut by a month, reservists who have put civilian lives on hold are having theirs cancelled at the last minute and training budgets are being slashed, with training in some units cut to a half-night a week.

The cuts are also being applied to recruiting, with the next recruit classes in some units cut by more than half. As Mr. Selkirk, the former honorary colonel of the Brockville Rifles, says, "That's the difference between growing and probably shrinking." And reserve units, once shrunk, are then vulnerable to government pressure to amalgamate with other units.

"I haven't seen it this bad since the late 1980s, '90s," says one non-commissioned officer at an Ontario reserve unit; this, remember, was the period that former chief of the defence staff Rick Hillier described as "the decade of darkness." As Lt.-Col. McGregor says, "The militia regiments that have stood the test of time . . . are being threatened with starvation in order to make ends meet. Without a force generator like the reserve regiments, our Canadian Forces will be very hard-pressed to make the contribution that is required. . . .we know from the historic record that there is always another emergency around the corner." (He wrote that before the earthquake flattened Haiti, a country with which Canada has strong ties. If the army wasn't overstretched before, it will be now.) The truth is that the reserves and its citizen soldiers have always been unappreciated by the bureaucracy at the Department of National Defence and sometimes by government.

To Lt.-Col. McGregor, the reserves should function for the regular army as the junior leagues do for the National Hockey League. Yet Canada is one of the few countries in the world where the army reserves are smaller than the regular army. This makes no sense, he says.

"There should likely be a 2:1 or 3:1 reserves to regular force ratio.

"A further truth about the reserve army is that you can't rip it apart and then easily or quickly rebuild it later when you need it. As in the hockey analogy, each hockey team in any league has a first, second and third line and each team has leadership in the form of a coach, manager, captain and several assistant captains.

"And soldiers," he says, "like to belong to cohesive and proud organizations and in Canada these are called regiments. They are the 'teams' on which soldiers exist." In the national game, anyone who doesn't perform is swiftly fired.

Canada's soldiers, reservists included, have performed beyond expectations.

Would that the same could be said of those who make these maddening and shabby decisions.
I suppose the NHL/Farm-team analogy comes a little short in the sense that the NHL skims the cream of the top of the farm teams while the population transfering from reserves to regular force represents a whole cross section of the reserves.  Same is true of the population of reserves augmenting regular force operations.  The farmteam is the proving ground to make it to the big league; there is no similar thing for the military. 

The vast majority of Class B cutting should be done in higher HQs and regular force establishments (where the impacts would actually be harder on the regular force).
 
I'm pretty ticked off with this direction. I suggest we all write to the Prime Minister as I have on this matter. pm@pm.gc.ca

I've seen this before and I'm getting tired of it,  every time we make a bit of head way.....slash.

 
While I appreciate Ms. Blatchford's long standing support for the CF, I can't help but think that this one is a little off the mark.

I'm a reservist, and I see the effect our financial troubles have had at the PL/COY level.  I can't lie, it really does suck.  But given there's only limited funds to go around, what can be done about it? Someone up top set priorities and made a budget, presumably based on the greater needs of the CF and Canada as a whole.  You can't fault a guy for that.

My impression of Ms. Blatchford's article is that she thinks the PRes is somehow being done wrong.  I understand the situation differently.  My impression is that the CF as a whole is under-funded, and because of that the PRes are taking a hit for the team.
 
Wonderbread said:
Someone up top set priorities and made a budget, presumably based on the greater needs of the CF and Canada as a whole.  You can't fault a guy for that.

Courses have been cancelled midstream and at the last minute. This sounds more like lack of planning rather than lack of funds. Something you can fault a guy for.
 
Larkvall said:
Courses have been cancelled midstream and at the last minute. This sounds more like lack of planning rather than lack of funds. Something you can fault a guy for.

Which guys you going to blame?

The recruiters who met their target numbers admirably? Or all those forecasted releasers who failed to pull the pin due to the recession? Both circumstances, coupled with the recession have led to what we're seeing today.

Hard to blame the bean counter who did up a budget based on forecasted numbers and dollar values he was handed well before the recession set in. And, most guys getting out do so at end calendar year (ie in the fall!) or beginning of next calendar year for taxation purposes ... making it unknown until the fall & early new year that they actually are NOT getting out of the CF as historicly forecast; for that is when it becomes obvious that there's a need to double up the SWE to ensure troops are actually paid when those guys don't get out ... .

 
ArmyVern said:
Which guys you going to blame?

The recruiters who met their target numbers admirably? Or all those forecasted releasers who failed to pull the pin due to the recession? Both circumstances, coupled with the recession have led to what we're seeing today.

Hard to blame the bean counter who did up a budget based on forecasted numbers and dollar values he was handed well before the recession set in. And, most guys getting out do so at end calendar year (ie in the fall!) or beginning of next calendar year for taxation purposes ... making it unknown until the fall & early new year that they actually are NOT getting out of the CF as historicly forecast; for that is when it becomes obvious that there's a need to double up the SWE to ensure troops are actually paid when those guys don't get out ... .

I am leaving the blame game for others.

The recession started in the fall of 2008, long before the 2009 fiscal year started. The recruiting numbers are at people's finger tips. I bet historically people didn't get out during past recessions. It was predictable.

 
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