Would Mandatory National Service make the CF stronger?

[Armymedic]

In opposition to my personal view and the obvious right leaning bias on this site in favour of increasing the manning levels and budget, I would have to disagree that conscription or any sort of mandatory service would be good for the CF.

People join because they want to. That in itself is a powerful motivator and also is the first of many screens that separate the ordinary Canadian chaff from the wheat that make our military as good as it is.

If you want, lets add incentives like the US Army's GI bill where service entitles you to an education with benefits and funding, then lets explore that option...not make everyone join.

 

[Big Foot]

Armymedic, I'm going to again come back to the German situation. While I see where you're coming from, I must whole-heartedly disagree with your assessment that those who do not serve constitute "chaff". After having had the opportunity to visit Germany this past summer and deal with a good number of conscripted soldiers my age, I do not see much difference in their attitude or demeanor to the people of Canada. My personal view is that conscription (see? I used the dirty "C" word) would create a much stronger feeling of national pride and would at the same time go a long way toward changing the seemingly hostile perception of the Canadian Forces.

 

[Sig_Des]

I personally think that a compulsory term (2 yrs?) of military service would be excellent..But I am willing to agree that this would be very controversial..

What about 2 years of required CIVIL service? Don't want to serve in the military? how about 2 years in another government service...road crews, office assistants, parks services, etc.

something like the GI bill would also be beneficial, IMHO

 

[Big Foot]

Controversial, yes. But then, so was womens sufferage and Native voting rights back in the day. Times change when they're forced to change. I do like your idea about compulsory civil service though.  But yeah, I think it would be very beneficial to Canadian society.

 

[Sig_Des]

Controversial, yes. But then, so was womens sufferage and Native voting rights back in the day. Times change when they're forced to change. I do like your idea about compulsory civil service though.   But yeah, I think it would be very beneficial to Canadian society.

agreed, but I don't think we'll ever see it in todays Canadian society....tell York U students that they'll have to serve compulsory service, and see how that goes

 

[Big Foot]

Give the York students a choice, army or prison. That simple. People tend to resist change like this, but it's high time we as Canadians realize how lucky we are to live where we do so I think it would only be fair if everyone did their part to protect the country.

 

[GDawg]

I hate this topic. 

1.  Conscripts make bad soldiers, period.

2.  I equate compulsory service to treating your citizens like children by forcing them to do their "chores" against their will.

3.  Paying taxes is enough, if people choose to serve in one way or another good on them.

4.  We live in a free society, and forcing people to do things like serve in the military takes away our freedom to choose how we wish to live our lives.

5.  Forcing everyone to serve against their will may create a sense of resentment against the government, and even further degrade the public preception of the military.

6.  Forcing everyone to serve for X many months would severely handicap the our military supply chain, budget, and infrastructure....we can barely equip and train the troops we have now!

7.  This always brings up the "Join the army or go to jail" rant. Being able to serve is a privilege afforded to those who are lucky enough to be physically capable and so inclined to do so.

 

[Slim]

Personally I think that the idea of forcing national service in the form of the military specifically on anyone is a bad idea.

Imagine some of those hippie-clowns with machine guns! National service in the military should always remain voluntary unless the nation's survival is at stake.

 

[Kirkhill]

National service yes.

Conscripted military no.

Many other tasks that conscripts can do domestically, challenging and necessary, great way to get to know Canada and Canadians.

Soldiering should be a profession for volunteers only.

 

[Slim]

National service yes.

Conscripted military no.

Many other tasks that conscripts can do domestically, challenging and necessary, great way to get to know Canada and Canadians.

Soldiering should be a profession for volunteers only.

I concur 100%!!

 

[Sig_Des]

I'll agree, which is why I brought up the option of civil service, and if someone should wish it, THEN military service

 

[onecat]

I can't see this ever happening here. For two reasons, the first is that military service or nation service is not in the politicla will of any party and population gerenal hasa poor opinion of military.  the second reason it would never fly in Quebec and if it won't fly there it won't happen.  Had this been left place after WW1 or WW2 then the tradition might of held on though the 60 and 70's, but its way too late now.  Adding to that 40 plus years anti military policies in liberal run government.. kill any idea of national service.

 

[a_majoor]

"Tweaking the existing model of reserve restructuring will not produce the order of numbers required to meet all of the challenges.  Perhaps the key to real reform lies in taking to its logical conclusion the assertion of Prime Minister Martin that the defence of Canada is his first priority.  In so many other areas of national economy where supply does not meet demand, the government does not hesitate to intervene with some form of compulsion.  Maybe it is time to consider national service."

This quote only indicates a huge misunderstanding of economics. If there is no "supply", it generally means there is no demand either. Governments, with unlimited powers of compulsion (Taxation, physical compulsion, the ability to print money) can attempt to "create" supply or demand, but the economy reacts with all kinds of second order effects. In terms of defense, our local "demand" is suppressed since the government and people long ago decided to tap into the "supply" provided by the United States.

As to the topic at hand, please see:  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21429.0.html

 

[Glorified Ape]

I wouldn't back national service or conscription - the former because our bureaucracy is more than sufficient as it is, the latter because conscripts make bad soldiers (just ask the French circa 1939). Far from increasing the respect and popularity of the military, I think it would damage it. Military service, I've found, isn't popular or super-respected in countries where it's obligatory.  Many of the Europeans I've spoken with think it strange that someone would voluntarily join the military when they had a choice. If anything, it damages the military's appeal by making service therein something required rather than offered.

 

[paracowboy]

absolutely not. It goes against everything I believe in to force someone to fight. I do this job so that others don't have to.

Conscripts are lousy soldiers, and totally unreliable. I do not one beside me. And most certainly not behind me.

To loosely paraphrase Heinlein: Any nation that cannot raise it's children to fight for it doesn't deserve to continue to exist. Instead of bemoaning the lack of people in the CF, maybe, just maybe, the Intelligentsia should be looking at WHY the situation exists. What has happened to create a nation whose children feel no loyalty, no sense of civic responsibility, and who are frightened of difficult choices.

 

[Jed]

I would vote for National Service with a volunteer option to serve in the CF in a DOMOPS capability. Maybe under Canada Command. Much as I am not happy with the government bureaucracy, (the argument for not having National Civil service) I do not feel the problem is with too many people; It is with too many pocket sized empires and not enough worker bees to get things accomplished.

 

[cpl-cam]

I am sitting in a high school library right now. When I look around I see a guy hoping around looking like an idiot deliberately to annoy the librarian, a group of people talking about how high they got over the weekend, people who I know steal from their jobs, people with severe mental problems who I would not trust with a weapon and I see people who would sell national secrets if it made them more popular. If you want to conscript Canada's youth you'll need to fix Canada's youth first. Joining the Army may help some of them but not most. Military service in Canada is an honour, an honour which should not be forced upon people who do not deserve it. Canada's soldiers should be the elite of the society and not your average kid off the street.

 

[Brad Sallows]

National service?  No, thanks.  If there is work to be done, provide terms of reference and offer a market-based wage.  Don't conscript slaves to do the messy jobs you don't wish to touch.  Don't force people into your healthy, happy, right-thinking citizen indoctrination schemes, either.

I wonder how many people in favour of conscription right now were conscripted themselves, or would drop everything in their lives right now to fulfill the conscription obligation they didn't face after graduating high school?  Hands up high, now.  I'm counting...

 

[Marauder]

I'd soldier beside a canine before I'd soldier beside a conscript. Just look at all the cowards, sorry, "conscientious objectors" like that prat Hinzman who VOLUNTEER and then run like small children when it comes time to pay the butcher's bill. Now imagine being the lone soldier in a platoon who wants to take the fight to the enemy, and you see the size of the cluster-fuck in the making.

Just say no to conscirpts.

 

[Kirkhill]

As I said: No conscript soldiers - only volunteers.  That is a given.

However as to Civil National Service my take on that is this.

Everybody expects to benefit from society.  Society expects everybody to contribute.  Government forces people to contribute by paying taxes but that only applies to people that earn money or own property.  This automatically excludes kids and the unemployed who still expect to receive the benefits of society that taxpayer's receive. 

Solution:  Pay your taxes in kind, sweat equity if you like.  You can sweat on government time or you can sweat on your own time and pay cash to the government.  Either way everybody is equally "forced" to contribute.  "Challenges" are no excuse......and now someone will no doubt find me a mentally challenged blind 90 year old to which the response will be every rule requires exceptions.