Will 2021 see a new pistol buy?

[Fabius]

Anyone hear how the training on the new pistol is going down at the Sig Academy?

 

[KevinB]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/04/11/sig-sauer-p320-fires-on-own/

 

[SeaKingTacco]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/04/11/sig-sauer-p320-fires-on-own/

Kevin, I am not real sure how the p320 works- does the firing pin stay in train, even when it is decocked?

 

[KevinB]

Kevin, I am not real sure how the p320 works- does the firing pin stay in train, even when it is decocked?

The P320 and M&P pistols use fully cocked strikers, the Glock is a partially loaded striker.
So to fire the P320 and M&P series all that needs to occur is the striker block is moved out of the way, the Glock requires additional rearward trigger pressure to cock it fully, and the striker block to be moved out of the way as well.

When a round is chambered in the 320, the striker is fully cocked, there is no way to decock, as all the trigger does is move the striker block out of the way.

The M&P design is closer to Glock however, as the striker block is near identical, the only major difference being the fact the striker on the Glock is pushed rearward at the same time the trigger actuates the sticker block out of the way.

If you watch the video in the article it does a very good job as showing the action of the 320 pistol.
It also shows that small dimensional issues, coating and metallurgy are extremely more of an issue in the Sig design.

IMHO it's a bad design, and anyone who shoots a lot with it, is going to have issues.
Both the FBI and USSS noted they failed significantly after 10k rounds, and where completely unusable by 15k if they had even gotten that far.

I would guess anyone who had adopted it, never did a lifecycle test on the system, or if they did, had only 1-2 guns and a low round count.
I would also hope anyone who had adopted it also does randomly picked endurance test from each delivery batch.

I used to love the SigP226, and other 22X family, but the whole P250/P320 are another animal, I have one simply as a reference gun, but it isn't carried at all.

 

[Dana381]

The P320 and M&P pistols use fully cocked strikers, the Glock is a partially loaded striker.
So to fire the P320 and M&P series all that needs to occur is the striker block is moved out of the way, the Glock requires additional rearward trigger pressure to cock it fully, and the striker block to be moved out of the way as well.

When a round is chambered in the 320, the striker is fully cocked, there is no way to decock, as all the trigger does is move the striker block out of the way.

The M&P design is closer to Glock however, as the striker block is near identical, the only major difference being the fact the striker on the Glock is pushed rearward at the same time the trigger actuates the sticker block out of the way.

If you watch the video in the article it does a very good job as showing the action of the 320 pistol.
It also shows that small dimensional issues, coating and metallurgy are extremely more of an issue in the Sig design.

IMHO it's a bad design, and anyone who shoots a lot with it, is going to have issues.
Both the FBI and USSS noted they failed significantly after 10k rounds, and where completely unusable by 15k if they had even gotten that far.

I would guess anyone who had adopted it, never did a lifecycle test on the system, or if they did, had only 1-2 guns and a low round count.
I would also hope anyone who had adopted it also does randomly picked endurance test from each delivery batch.

I used to love the SigP226, and other 22X family, but the whole P250/P320 are another animal, I have one simply as a reference gun, but it isn't carried at all.

And we bought how many??? Same shit different day

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The P320 and M&P pistols use fully cocked strikers, the Glock is a partially loaded striker.
So to fire the P320 and M&P series all that needs to occur is the striker block is moved out of the way, the Glock requires additional rearward trigger pressure to cock it fully, and the striker block to be moved out of the way as well.

When a round is chambered in the 320, the striker is fully cocked, there is no way to decock, as all the trigger does is move the striker block out of the way.

The M&P design is closer to Glock however, as the striker block is near identical, the only major difference being the fact the striker on the Glock is pushed rearward at the same time the trigger actuates the sticker block out of the way.

If you watch the video in the article it does a very good job as showing the action of the 320 pistol.
It also shows that small dimensional issues, coating and metallurgy are extremely more of an issue in the Sig design.

IMHO it's a bad design, and anyone who shoots a lot with it, is going to have issues.
Both the FBI and USSS noted they failed significantly after 10k rounds, and where completely unusable by 15k if they had even gotten that far.

I would guess anyone who had adopted it, never did a lifecycle test on the system, or if they did, had only 1-2 guns and a low round count.
I would also hope anyone who had adopted it also does randomly picked endurance test from each delivery batch.

I used to love the SigP226, and other 22X family, but the whole P250/P320 are another animal, I have one simply as a reference gun, but it isn't carried at all.

The SP2022 is a good pistol and as I recall the French Police bought 500,000 of them and there was a big buy by the US of them for some foreign partner.

 

[MilEME09]

Training has begun in gagetown

https://twitter.com/x/status/1663251663925149731

 

[Ostrozac]

The P320 is a fine pistol for what it is — but we aren’t going to get 75+ years of service out of them like we did with the Browning.

 

[PuckChaser]

The P320 is a fine pistol for what it is — but we aren’t going to get 75+ years of service out of them like we did with the Browning.

Much like the people who hang around long after their 25 year pension limit, I'd argue there wasn't much service going on with the Browning since the late 1980s.

 

[OldSolduer]

IF I were in I would demand to be issued matching flintlock pistols. You know for the pirate look.

Or 1851 Navy Colts like Josey Wales did. For that rebel look.

 

[markppcli]

The P320 is a fine pistol for what it is — but we aren’t going to get 75+ years of service out of them like we did with the Browning.

I certainly hope we don’t.

Army shared images of the train the trainer course being ran. Unsurprising the only guy wearing a matching set of modern kit was the Sig Sauer trainer.

 

[Haggis]

I certainly hope we don’t.

In typical CA fashion, we will have original C22s in the Army Reserve well past the time when interstellar travel becomes the norm.

Army shared images of the train the trainer course being ran. Unsurprising the only guy wearing a matching set of modern kit was the Sig Sauer trainer.

That's embarrassing.

 

[KevinB]

The P320 is a fine pistol for what it is — but we aren’t going to get 75+ years of service out of them like we did with the Browning.

It’s a ~10k round gun.
As long as you can accept that, it works.
So for most units outside of CANSOF that will mean 30 years or more.

I think personally the Glock19 would have been a better choice as the frame will last forever - but Canada wanted a modular frame and it is what it is at that point.

 

[Haggis]

It’s a ~10k round gun.

Mine is closing in on 10K and I'll probably hit that point by the end of June.

So for most units outside of CANSOF that will mean 30 years or more.

I desperately hope the CA has upgraded how they teach pistol. The most common emotion I witnessed on a pistol range was frustration. and it had little to do with the pistol.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Mine is closing in on 10K and I'll probably hit that point by the end of June.

I desperately hope the CA has upgraded how they teach pistol. The most common emotion I witnessed on a pistol range was frustration. and it had little to do with the pistol.

Awhile ago a buddy of mine - a Saanich cop - invited me to join in on a range ex where they were taking their police reservists through the Glock and the shotgun.

It was one of the most pleasant periods of range instruction I can recall ever being a part of.

Despite never having handled Glock before, by the end of it, I was regularly hitting the bullseye and feeling confident overall in handling the pistol. Other participants, who had never handled any kind of pistol before, were doing the same.

Whatever the police are doing in this regard is a good thing, and something that the CAF could definitely learn from IMHO.

 

[Halifax Tar]

How much time to LEOs get a year for range time ? I would assume there are variations between regions and tasks...

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I think the P320 is going to be a good system for what we use it for.

Where I can see it falling down (along with most of our PWT regimen) is the frequency of training and making pers comfortable not only shooting, but manipulating and holding a loaded and readied pistol without making people panicked about potentially killing their buddy.

Safety is always a core value, however, if people are terrified to use this system, you're just going to have the same amount of NDs; just with a new pistol.

 

[OldSolduer]

I think the P320 is going to be a good system for what we use it for.

Where I can see it falling down (along with most of our PWT regimen) is the frequency of training and making pers comfortable not only shooting, but manipulating and holding a loaded and readied pistol without making people panicked about potentially killing their buddy.

Safety is always a core value, however, if people are terrified to use this system, you're just going to have the same amount of NDs; just with a new pistol.

FWIW the pistol was seen as an officer sidearm and no wretched NCM should be issued one. I reckon that prejudice still may exist .

 

[Colin Parkinson]

How much time to LEOs get a year for range time ? I would assume there are variations between regions and tasks...

If they are lucky the RCMP seem to get about 200rds a year, the BC Sheriffs was much worse at 50 rounds every 18 months at one point, not sure if they improved that. What I found with police, is that they are either really good and take time to practice, or utterly terrible and avoid practice if at all possible. Not that much of average shooters.

Thankfully there is a civilian organization that promotes handgun shooting and is always looking for new members, oh wait, yea that right, they are effed by the current government.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

FWIW the pistol was seen as an officer sidearm and no wretched NCM should be issued one. I reckon that prejudice still may exist .

I had it out with my Ops O on tour IRT this attitude.

Climbing in and out of LAVs, Bisons, and AHSVS' doing comms installs with a C7A2 clunking me in the back of the head was perfectly acceptable because "well you're a Corporal and there's only enough pistols to go around..." Meanwhile, they were taking off their Bazaar pistol holsters off and hanging them up I the TOC for 12 hours at a time.

Utter garbage. I would rather my troops be able to move around and do their work, while being capable to defend themselves, than have the delusions of grandeur about sending the lads over the top at Ypres...