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Why you chose to attend RMC?

SupersonicMax said:
Not to spark an other fire, but what does appearance have to do with self esteem?

What??.........I don't*breast implant* know about you *nose job* but I think *tummy tuck* that there is *face lift* a compelling arguement to be said*designer clothes* that appearences and self esteem are very much intertwined.
 
So, if I dress with sweat pants and a t-shirt on my time off and I don't shave, I have little to no self esteem?
 
I guess only you would know the answer to that.................
 
I can't speak for others, but I consider I have a fairly good self-esteem, and yet, wear sweat pants/t-shirt and don't shave on days off...  I personally don't think there is any correlation between self-esteem and the way  you dress. 
 
SupersonicMax said:
I can't speak for others, but I consider I have a fairly good self-esteem, and yet, wear sweat pants/t-shirt and don't shave on days off...  I personally don't think there is any correlation between self-esteem and the way  you dress. 

And some people that are suffering from acute depression won't change clothes, wash etc for days. Low self esteem is one of the signs of depression...
 
SupersonicMax said:
Does that mean that everybody that dress down is depressed?

Not at all but I gave you a viable example where self esteem and personal appearance can go hand in hand.
 
Ex-Dragoon, sure, but we cannot say that Self Esteem is ALWAYS correlated to how you dress.  This is a rather specific example and cannot be generalized.
 
SupersonicMax said:
Does that mean that everybody that dress down is depressed?


Well, being a civvy, and working in a military building that houses the LFCA, 32 Brigade HQ, Jag, ARea padre, Mps and our new IPSC, I saunter in on  aregular basis with Jeans and not shaved.

Oh ya, I am Clinically depressed, and suffering from other Mental Injuries...heheh, I agree with your statement ;)

dileas

tess
 
the 48th regulator said:
Well, being a civvy, and working in a military building that houses the LFCA, 32 Brigade HQ, Jag, ARea padre, Mps and our new IPSC, I saunter in on  aregular basis with Jeans and not shaved.

Oh ya, I am Clinically depressed, and suffering from other Mental Injuries...heheh, I agree with your statement ;)

dileas

tess


Civvie being the key piece of information.  The rest is fluff.
 
Mssrs. Clarke and Sonic,

The QR&Os are written clearly enough for someone to be charged with a NDA 129 - conduct to the prejudice of good order and discipline.  While you are at university you receive a pay cheque which is not given as an hourly wage, I have shown that you have a chain of command and that an officer must set an example. Perhaps the thing you both seem to lack at this point is command experience. 

If I ever have the chance to serve with you I would enjoy discussing this over a beer. According to your profiles you have been commissioned for a few years and can now begin to interpret and research regulations.  As an officer cadets I would suggest that we all were just beginning to learn the regulations.  Once you have commanded more than an aircraft or a desk and have earned the trust and respect to command men hopefully you will have learned that you set an example every day you are able to rise out of bed to face another day of life in uniform. 

Let's suppose for example that you decide to wear torn sweatpants to class or become profane and disruptive with a professor or teaching assistant - what is there to prevent someone in the university faculty or administration or a classmate from inferring that you as a paid military member on a free ride at school are a fine example of those who are dying in Afghanistan. 

I like the ethical quandary you face once you volunteer to serve your country - how will you act or dress when you think no one (important) is watching you.  If you think the regulations are not written to your liking then perhaps in your wildest dreams one day you will be in a position to amend them.     
 
Frostnipped Elf said:
Mssrs. Clarke and Sonic,

The QR&Os are written clearly enough for someone to be charged with a NDA 129 - conduct to the prejudice of good order and discipline.  While you are at university you receive a pay cheque which is not given as an hourly wage, I have shown that you have a chain of command and that an officer must set an example.   

Luckily, there is still some discretion when comes time to lay that NDA129 charge.  ;)

Frostnipped Elf said:
Perhaps the thing you both seem to lack at this point is command experience. 

I may not have commanded a unit, but I am in charge of other things than airplanes (people), and I do interact with NCMs on a daily basis, including during my time off.  They do not think less or more of me because I do not shave on my days off.  Neighter do my boss.

I personally think that what you do in your time off is your buisness.  As long as it doesn't bother anyone.
 
We are battling a thunder storm in NE Ont.  Which is about as relevant as how you dress for a Green Day concert in a thread with the Subject line:  Why you chose to attend RMC?

Now back to the dress tangent/hijack/surely soon to be split thread  - When I joined which was probably before you were born, a Cbt Arms CO or sub-unit commander would have said yes to your collared shirt and no to jeans (I don't know too many people who wore " polo pants" at university unless they were on the polo-playing or the water polo team.)

I agree with you Sonic - but while at university on ROTP you are not on your own time. 
gcclarke said:
What, praytell, does that mean? Does it mean that I cannot wear a pair of ripped jeans to a Green Day concert? No. Does it mean that I have to, at all times, have a collared shirt and polo pants? No.

I don't think that a ROTP student at a civilian university reflects badly upon the Service for showing up to class in regular university student gear.

Frankly, I consider the wording of the QR&O to be vague enough to be almost useless in providing guidance on this topic, except for very extreme cases (Such as wearing clothing with offensive text / images, or lacking clothing that really should be there).
 
Frostnipped Elf said:
Mssrs. Clarke and Sonic,

The QR&Os are written clearly enough for someone to be charged with a NDA 129 - conduct to the prejudice of good order and discipline.  While you are at university you receive a pay cheque which is not given as an hourly wage, I have shown that you have a chain of command and that an officer must set an example. Perhaps the thing you both seem to lack at this point is command experience. 

If I ever have the chance to serve with you I would enjoy discussing this over a beer. According to your profiles you have been commissioned for a few years and can now begin to interpret and research regulations.  As an officer cadets I would suggest that we all were just beginning to learn the regulations.  Once you have commanded more than an aircraft or a desk and have earned the trust and respect to command men hopefully you will have learned that you set an example every day you are able to rise out of bed to face another day of life in uniform. 

Let's suppose for example that you decide to wear torn sweatpants to class or become profane and disruptive with a professor or teaching assistant - what is there to prevent someone in the university faculty or administration or a classmate from inferring that you as a paid military member on a free ride at school are a fine example of those who are dying in Afghanistan. 

I like the ethical quandary you face once you volunteer to serve your country - how will you act or dress when you think no one (important) is watching you.  If you think the regulations are not written to your liking then perhaps in your wildest dreams one day you will be in a position to amend them.   

I'd like to bring your attention back to a point I made earlier. I consider myself a pretty decent officer, people respect me (or at least pretend to), I get along well with my superiors and subordinates and the WO I work with goes out of his way to guide me as needed and doesn't seem to hate me. All this despite the fact that I wear sweats on my days off (sometimes) and will only be caught wearing khakis when I have to wear them on the few occasions you'll find me in the mess in civvies (I'm a jeans guy, designer jeans at that). My off-duty 'uniform' (both now and at school) is jeans and a t-shirt (or polo or button up when I head to the bar when I had a night off). And despite 'dressing down' (as you consider it) I seem to be doing pretty well so far.
 
All,
Can we put the clothes discussion to bed and let the grown-ups back in?
 
I have been to civi-U three times, so coming to RMC makes it my 4th time at university. And no, I didn't fail out of the other schools or anything, I didn't get full credit for the degree I have because it's from a technical school in New Zealand. Whatever, I'm getting paid to go to school now and I'm doing really well here, it's all good. Anyhow, I chose to come to RMC because I wanted to have more of a military education, as all I really learned at civi-U was how to make it to class on time after having stayed up all night hanging out with friends. There are pros and cons to both systems. I think RMC gets you more into being aware of details, as dress and room inspections play such a big role in life here. However, I do know that there are civi-U students who are just as attentive about their appearance and general standards, just as there are RMC cadets who are massive bags who don't care about their appearance or room, no matter how many IR's they get given for it. I also think that finishing your OPME's before graduation is a huge advantage, as is the french training. But, like others have said, if you want to do a specific degree that is not offered at RMC, then by all means, go civi-U. Same with the sports- fitness here is a huge thing, but varsity teams have a hard time, as they have such a small student body to pull their players from. Being an RO is different than going to civi-U on your own dime though, I see so many cadets (both from RMC and civi-U) who have no concept of budgeting, time management, and other important skills, because the subsidization offered by the CF takes care of a lot of that for them. Also, there seems to generally be a lack of appreciation for how good the ROTP program is, because so many cadets have come straight from high school, so don't know how hard it is to try to find jobs, pay for education, etc on your own. I'm glad I've been able to experience both worlds, I can appreciate how good we really do have it in the ROTP program, despite the downsides.

All in all, even though there are many disadvantages to being at RMC (like 6:30am parades in the middle of winter  :P), I think the advantages of working with senior NCMs and officers on a daily basis is an advantage over civi-U, and the leadership opportunities (if you choose to take advantage of them) at RMC provide you with experience into how the military actually functions, and can improve your confidence in leading people. At RMC, you get so many examples of excellent leadership and terrible leadership, which are great education experiences if you choose to learn from them. I won't say that RMC cadets are better than civi-U students, because that's not the case. I will say that as an average, RMC cadets upon graduation are probably more ready to take on the challenges ahead of them than civi-U grads, just because of the more military nature of the experiences you have at RMC. But every individual is different, and I'm sure there are many civi-U grads who are more capable than some RMC grads, simply because of differences in personality and effort put into their education. Some RMC cadets try to get by with doing just the bare minimum, which I think defeats the purpose of being at RMC. I think any RMC grad who thinks he/she's god's gift to the CF purely because they graduated from RMC is full of it, you have to earn the respect of your peers and superiors through your actions, both before and after you graduate.
 
zipperhead_cop said:
I wonder if this has helped the topic originator decide?  :P

Sure it did.  It helped him decide to run away screaming into the night ...
 
I think a lot of the 'hobo' thing is slightly misinterpreted. Wearing sweatpants is okay sometimes, so long as they are clean. They're flexible and more comfortable than jeans or dress pants, if someone has an opportunity to wear them at a civilian university without disrupting things then why not? The only problem I have with them is that they rarely come with pockets, and when they do they tend to be very small pockets which turn inside out far too easily when compared to jeans.

Especially if someone is athletic and needs to remain loose and mobile (maybe throw some kicks/lunges between classes if they're into TKD/fencing) then sweat pants are pretty good.

As for shaving: it seems like this would be a good habit to establish on a daily basis since being well-groomed is going to be part of one's military lifestyle. At the same time: it does consume time to do this, and in some cases people's facial hair doesn't grow all that fast so even if they go a week without doing it the beard is not all that noticeable. So long as someone is bathing regularly and keeps their head hair well groomed, a little stubble isn't really that depressing or indicative of a lack of self-esteem.

It comes to mind that some people may be involved in Hockey, and it's a custom in the playoffs for competitors to not shave (some luck thing?) so maybe others do that as a sign? If someone is pushed for time and would rather spend 5 extra minutes doing some morning calisthenics or studying as opposed to shaving, then it's not bad. It's more bad when people neglect self-maintenance. The difference is like: did someone forget to shave, or simply choose not to because they have other priorities or preferences?

It seems like a good skill to keep practiced in though, and in a variety of ways (I remember in some book someone shaved with a boot knife, that would be cool to be able to do if you lacked for razors). Heck, some people need to practice with razors if they've gotten accustomed to using an electric trimmer (I know I have).
 
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