Which reservist trades have training closest to regular force training?

[nick_the_guy]

Just wondering what are the trades where reservist and regular force training (given the same rank) are most similar.  I read here that med techs don't receive the same type and level of medical training as regular force members and armored recce reservists train on G-wagons rather than Coyotes. How about the opposite, what are the reservist trades where they could step in and join the regular forces with mininal work-up?

 

[Jarnhamar]

infantry

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I was thinking RMS Clerk, Supply Tech (minus their software MIMMS or whatever its called) or Cook.  Those are WAGs of course.

The differences in Armd Recce go beyond just the vehicles used.  Surv tasks in a Reg Tp vice Res Tp...huge.  1 example just to make a point. 

 

[my72jeep]

CFSEME used to have the same training standard for all.

 

[MikeL]

infantry

Not really IMO, for NCMs there are 3-4 Supplemental training blocks a Reservist would have to do after DP1 to be equiv to Reg Force.  Reading the latest QS for DP1 Infantry there is no CQC in Reserve DP1,  no live fire above pairs, etc.  I know in the past if a Reserve DP1 Infantryman wanted to go Reg Force they would have to do the Reg Force DP1 course unless they had a tour.  Not sure if it is the same now.

As well I don't believe Reserve Infantry Officers are required to do DP1.2


AFAIK,  the Air Force Reserve and possibly Navy do the same QL3 courses as Regular Force.  I haven't looked at the QS but I assume ACISS  DP1 would be pretty close if not the same(just split into 2 mods?)

 

[Allgunzblazing]

What is the reason for the difference in training?

Doesn't it make sense to have the same length of training for everyone regardless of component - that way transition from one component to the other will be seamless.

 

[MikeL]

Allgunzblazing,  a big issue I would assume for that is training length.  Reservists may only have 1-2 months to do their DP1/QL3 course in the summer,  some Reg Force DP1/QL3s can be 2+ months long. 

 

[Jarnhamar]

Not really IMO,  there are 3-4 Supplemental training blocks a Reservist would have to do after DP1 to be equiv to Reg Force.  Reading the latest QS for DP1 Infantry there is no CQC in Reserve DP1,  no live fire above pairs, etc

Fair enough. From my personal observations I think at the private/(non-senior) corporal level the soldier skills are pretty much the same and the training is close enough that a res can easily integrate into working along side the regs.

During live fire jungle lanes regular force privates and corporals are making the same mistakes as the reserve counterparts.  Not to mention I've seen a lot of live fire in the reserve's (section and platoon level), I guess it's just not taught at their DP1 is what you meant?

Of course the regular force have access to way more specialty courses but I don't feel over all there is that much of a gap in the context of what the OP appeared to be asking.

 

[Allgunzblazing]

Skeletor, that is exactly the question I'm asking - why not have everyone attend basic at St. Jean and have everyone attend their trade courses together?

I can understand that some reservists may like to attend the courses in blocks because of work commitments. Plus reg force personnel should get preference when courses are loaded. But I don't understand why the duration of basic training varies between the two components (for a number of occupations).

EDIT - my apologies for digressing from the original topic. Can someone please PM me the reason why basic training differs between the two components.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

What is the reason for the difference in training?

Doesn't it make sense to have the same length of training for everyone regardless of component - that way transition from one component to the other will be seamless.

Also, for lack of a better term or terms, the "mandate" of the Reg Frce and Res Frce at peacetime are quite different.  Thats a very simplified version of it.

 

[TwoTonShackle]

In line with the "One Navy", as of this year Regular Force and Reserve Force Boatswains will undergo the same QL3/QL5 and QL6.  The courses are Mod'ed so that a Class A reservist can can complete a 7 month QL5 over 2-4 years.  The Regular Force Bosn's I've talked to about this think it's only logical while the reservists think it's lunacy.  Scheduling and juggling Mods will be interesting.  Currently it's only on par up to DP3 as the Reserves had never "bought in" to the QL7.

 

[brihard]

Skeletor, that is exactly the question I'm asking - why not have everyone attend basic at St. Jean and have everyone attend their trade courses together?

I can understand that some reservists may like to attend the courses in blocks because of work commitments. Plus reg force personnel should get preference when courses are loaded. But I don't understand why the duration of basic training varies between the two components (for a number of occupations).

Because with many reservists joining between Gr 11 and 12 (maybe a two month gap) or balancing the reserves with full time college or university, we literally cannot run it that way. The majority of our troops would spend too little time past the 'operationally functional point' in a trade to be much never, mind getting qualified through PLQ to subsequently instruct.

We accept that there is a skill delta in the reserves, and that it is generally necessary for most reserve trades to be viable. That difference is made up in workup training before deployment, or to a lesser extent in subsequent reserve collective training.

 

[MikeL]

Not to mention I've seen a lot of live fire in the reserve's (section and platoon level), I guess it's just not taught at their DP1 is what you meant?

Rog,  according to the QS Reserve DP1 students will only do live fire at the pair level.  Anything higher would be done during unit training along with the  supplemental training requirements.

Of course the regular force have access to way more specialty courses

I assume you are referring to courses like Sniper,  FAC,  and LAV courses?

 

[PuckChaser]

I haven't looked at the QS but I assume ACISS  DP1 would be pretty close if not the same(just split into 2 mods?)

SigOp/Lineman used to be the same course just split into mods. Now they've decided that reservists won't get the same training as a RegF member because theres a lot of kit they won't ever see unless they're on callout and the RegF training is too long for reservists (5 summers to get them to DP2 and not even have a PLQ). Not sure how this is going to bode for people doing CTs, as a PLAR used to just be a formality.

 

[MikeL]

SigOp/Lineman used to be the same course just split into mods. Now they've decided that reservists won't get the same training as a RegF member because theres a lot of kit they won't ever see unless they're on callout and the RegF training is too long for reservists (5 summers to get them to DP2 and not even have a PLQ). Not sure how this is going to bode for people doing CTs, as a PLAR used to just be a formality.

Rog,  I thought they would have kept doing the mods like they did for the QL3 courses.  If they could split a 6 month QL3 into mods for Reservists I don't see why they couldn't do that for ACISS as the DP1 course is pretty short comparatively.  The DP1.1(?) I can see being a issue due to the kit.

 

[Eaglelord17]

I know for support trades in the Army Reserve that the training is the same as there Reg Force counterparts for the most part (some are done in mods though)

 

[brihard]

I know for support trades in the Army Reserve that the training is the same as there Reg Force counterparts for the most part (some are done in mods though)

You know this, or you suspect it to be the case? 'Support trades' is very broad.

MPs? Nope. Medics? Nope. Those are the most blatant inequalities. Many other trades have lesser but still present training deltas.

 

[PuckChaser]

Rog,  I thought they would have kept doing the mods like they did for the QL3 courses.  If they could split a 6 month QL3 into mods for Reservists I don't see why they couldn't do that for ACISS as the DP1 course is pretty short comparatively.  The DP1.1(?) I can see being a issue due to the kit.

The main issues there were dealing with was kit and skill fade. Guys would learn EPLRS and 117F and the like and never see the stuff again. They promised someone important when this ACISS thing came together that they could shorten the training time, then realized the mountain of material they would have to cram in, so they hacked and slashed. This info is a few years out of date (implementation time), so they may have changed thinking, but I strongly doubt it.

 

[Eaglelord17]

You know this, or you suspect it to be the case? 'Support trades' is very broad.

MPs? Nope. Medics? Nope. Those are the most blatant inequalities. Many other trades have lesser but still present training deltas.

Sorry for any confusion when I was thinking support trades I should have said Supply Tech, RMS Clerk, Veh Tech, and Weapons Tech, the Service Battalion Trades. For example I know for Supply Tech QL3 is only 1 or 2 weeks shorter than the Reg Force QL3, and for any trades course for the above trades they are all done in Borden (at least for Ontario) to maintain the skills to a high standard as it is more or less expected that your skills mesh with the Reg Force as your using/fixing the same equipment.

 

[MikeL]

for the above trades they are all done in Borden (at least for Ontario)

AFAIK majority of LOG* and EME pers will attend their career courses at their respectful school in CFB Borden.  There have been some courses outsourced to another location though.


*I believe Traffic Techs do portions of their career courses in Borden as well as Trenton.